Actually, in my despair as evidenced on this thread, I am signed up for a jumping lesson this weekend!! Let’s hope it comes back like “riding a bicycle,” since I haven’t jumped in 20+ years. Evented through preliminary, but the last time I jumped anything seriously, i,e., in competition, was around 1996.
I totally thought this was Luna Bear! I’m down in Los Angeles.
@ThreeFigs so for me it’s more important that the instructor is knowledgeable than the horse although that’s a bonus. Of course you and your horse sound perfect except for location . But maybe we can still make that work like we started talking.
Level hmmmm. I am not competitive. I see myself as very lower level. That said I can get any horse at least through and round whether it’s green or a PSG horse. I am given the impression that I’m more in the second level category but very much need polishing and further teaching.
Am I better rider than lower level trainers? No. But do I know the difference between correct and being taught to ride by pulling the face in or riding front to back, yes! I want to know why we do things and where it’s going. So I think training with people of a certain level and understanding is best for me.
I’ve actually benefited from having small group dressage lessons. Its usually no more than 3 horses, and it has been helpful to watch someone else ride the pattern/exercise before I try it. If I am struggling with a concept or learning something new, I like how I can 1. hear my instructor explain it, and 2. WATCH someone do it - I’m more more of a visual learner, so this approach has really helped me pick things up quicker.
Its also interesting to see what other horse/rider pairs struggle with or succeed at and creates a really uplifting, team-like environment. When rider X’s horse was being spooky in the corners, she watched how I navigated my horse through his spooky bug-aboos (the mounting block!) and applied it to her horse. What I was doing was no different than what the instructor was telling her to do, but sometimes it kicks our brains into a different gear if we can see it donetoo.
Riding in a group simultaneously also really helps with gait control and regulation. One fun exercise is to ride 1/2 the area keeping equal distance between each horse - even though they are different breeds and sizes - each rider really has to play with the gears to keep the pattern running smoothly. That said, after any simultaneous riding we also get our one on one time where we work individually with the instructor and the other riders go off to the center of the arena to watch. Sure I could just zone out and use my horse as a couch, but I look at it like a mini-clinic and really try to learn from each ride I watch.
It might not be for everyone, but there are definitely lots of positives to a group dressage lesson, particularly when the riders are all around the same level.
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I think there comes a point where a group dressage lesson Would be really difficult. For example you can’t work on a working pirouette with three horses standing in the middle of the ring. And when the horses get fitter it is more difficult to stop and start again but still make progress.
The Spanish Riding School manages quadrille rides…I see them as analogs to a “group ride/lesson”
I can’t see why a dressage lesson can’t follow that model…Simon Says…“Half-pass H-K”…then the instructor can critique and comment. This can be easily done with 4, 3, 4 people and still provide useful feedback.
Quadrilles requires that a rider be able to maintain tempo and rythym along with actually doing a movement.
I have ridden in such lessons and they are very hard.
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true - it may be better suited for those of us in the lower levels which is still a large percentage of the lesson-taking populace.
Also worth noting that the inactive riders are not ‘glued’ in the middle, you obviously move to where you are not in the way or walk your horse quietly outside the boards. Some arena setups are better suited to this than others. Practicing with other horses in the ring also helps prep for the warm-up environment at shows - it gets you out of ‘tunnel vision’ and makes you more aware of your surroundings. FWIW, no other horses are allowed in the ring during a group lesson.
In my specific case, I get one group lesson a week and practice solo the rest of the week unless I can squeeze a private in. It works for my budget and my horse for now. Just offering a perspective that group dressage lessons might be something for trainers to explore if their schedules are tight and they have students whose schedules and riding abilities mesh.
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I could see something like this working well for two people who are at the same level and who are trying to perfect specific movements. It can be really helpful to see someone else perform a shoulder-in, haunches-in, half-pass etc along with the feedback from the trainer. I wouldn’t mind doing this from time to time in a 1 hour lesson format if I’m working on something very specific.
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Because often in schooling you don’t complete the movement or you pick up another movement in the middle to correct an issue that you’re having - to train. It’s not going to be the same for each horse and maybe you are trying to half pass h-k but you need to go straight and start over because your circle to begin wasn’t good - at which point you run into the rider behind you and/or skip going back to make the correction thus allowing the horse to disconnect from the mistake. Or you’re working on the working pirouette and you come out too slow and you go to immediately set up for another versus canter around the ring waiting for someone else’s attempt.
i just don’t think it’s that successful. When riding a test you’re not trying to dodge other riders, so this also makes it more difficult to school a test sequence.
I’m just saying I understand why it’s not a common model in dressage.
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I understand what your saying. I think group lessons wouldn’t be good for everyone as one needs to be aware of other people in the ring.
That being said, I have taken numerous group jump lessons and group Dressage lessons. When I have totally messed up the exercise, the trainer has me do it again immediately. I have also never had to dodge riders in an o/f class either.
My last point, if someone runs into someone else in the arena, especially going straight, they probably should go back to basics and not be working on a half pass.
How do you cope in the warm up?
So again, I do not think group Dressage lessons should be for everyone but I do see their value.
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This whole excuse of “running into other riders” in a group dressage lesson is BS.
Jumpers manage to keep out of each others’ way, when cantering around. You tell me that a few dressage riders can’t steer? Then they need to go to “up-down school”…and not be in a dressage lesson.
A group dressage lesson would be a cost effective solution to expensive dressage lessons because riders need time to process and feel.
A trainer can indicate what a rider should go work on…leave the rider to try and explore…and re=focus immediate attention on another rider…then come back to first rider after that person has had time to work on their movement.
Most good trainers have eyeballs in the back of their head and can come in when needed.
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If group lessons were such a viable-doable option in dressage, it would be known.
Ever done a group dressage clinic with a BNT? Nope.
Ever done a group jumping clinic with a BNT? Totally.
Dressage lessons are better suited for single rider or 2, max 3 riders in a lesson.
The comparaison with carrousel and SRS is not really good either.
SRS riders have loads of private lessons.
While riding in a carrousel is a great experience, and fun, it is not a place to advance much in your riding or the horse’s training. You only confirm and practice stuff that both riders and horses know. You also don’t have time to repeat a wrongly done movement, you learn to keep going and come back later.
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Going through a series of movements could be like doing a combination in a jumping lesson. One rider goes while the others watch, then the next one goes, etc.
A 45 minute dressage lesson can be very intense. A one hour group session could be beneficial, although I don’t think a lot of people would do them.
That’s another thing that I think makes learning dressage so difficult. The format is typically a 45 minute private lesson. The trainer can only fit so many of these in during the day. Their schedules become even tighter when they also have horses to ride for clients. The most successful trainers I know also have an assistant (typically at least a bronze medalist) and a working student. It’s the only way many of them can get everything done.
Group lessons could be a way to get at least the same income per lesson slot, and likely more depending on the rate for group vs private lesson. People who might like this format would be those on a budget but those aren’t necessarily the ones bringing in horses for full training.
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The question that group dressage lessons are not popular is a matter of current customs in the US.
If you attend lessons in Europe, you will find group lessons especially at the lower levels which is where most people would benefit. When I started to ride, about half a century ago, group dressage lessons…given by former cavalry…were common.
Why are questions posed by dressage people posed in a binary format…eg., black or white, either/or? The world is not binary…it is BOTH.
Being able to ride in a group is a great skill that requires the ablity to control one’s horse. If you can’t do W-T-C in a group…in control…why would one think they would get good scores in a dressage test.
Riding in a carousel is a unique experience that requires a rider actually be able to control their horse…control rythym, tempo and geometry of figures. I have seen someone who thought she was a good rider have an absolute meltdown in a quadrille ride because it became obvious her steering and speed control were marginal.
Riding in a group is the same as playing a musical instrument in an ensemble. You may be able to play individually, but the playing in the ensemble requires coordination of timing and tempo.
Same with riding a dressage group ride.
I will admit I have seen a problem when a group rides had highly mismatched levels of rider skill…the instructor then spent more time with the lower levels to the detriment of the others. THAT argument is a valid argument. You don’t see mis-matched jumping levels very often in a group lesson.
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We have group lessons sometimes. They last longer than individual lessons because we each do still get personalized time at points where the rest have a long rein walk break. They can be very valuable for many reasons. I had a couple lessons with a friend showing the same level, and her horse is 7 inches shorter than mine. We did a lot of work side by side, where when we were cantering my mare who wanted to just go upward had to actually move to keep up with the little firecracker, then at walk and trot we were good for getting the other horse to lengthen her strides to attempt to match us more. Her horse is also spooky at night, so we rode under lights and having my horse who was unconcerned helped her horse. It was also just a lot of fun!
We do larger group lessons, too, and typically there’s one horse who needs more attention to others and gets it while the rest of us have some time to ourselves. Nothing wrong with that, and we all learn from them.
All summer my trainer did what he called “sessions.” Everyone wanted to ride early, so he had open hours to ride, and he’d give tips and pointers while he rode as well. If anyone needed special help he would work with them, and everyone else just rode on their own - but he also did schedule private lessons where needed, just not taking up the prime time everyone wanted to ride with those lessons. It was fun because we had a lot more time to ourselves, but still got tips and pointers.
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I like the sessions idea!
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It really worked out well so we could all have the time we wanted to ride, got to practice with other horses in the ring, had examples to watch at times, and it was both more cost effective for us and more efficient for my trainer who was basically working 4am-8pm daily.
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I certainly wouldn’t mind taking group dressage lessons. Yet as others have observed, it’s not so much the feasibility issue but that group lessons don’t seem to be part of the business model of most dressage barns. At least not in my area.
Not quite the same issue as the OP, but a somewhat similar experience–I was happily leasing a lower level dressage horse for about a year without incident. I loved the horse and loved the outside trainer I lessoned with. When the lease abruptly ended, I wanted to continue with dressage, but I knew that my situation was unusually lucky and unique–the lease was very affordable.
I asked around, but most dressage barns in my area either offered much more expensive leases or focused on riders who owned their own horses. There was also a certain expectation to show regularly, which was also out of my budget. I’m certainly not bitter about that fact, though, or surprised. In fact, I’ve noticed that most of the hunter-jumper barns in my area use a similar business model as well. They might have one or two school horses for riders just getting into horses, but after that, there is strong encouragement to start leasing a horse. And, again, an expectation to go to shows at least once or twice a season.
So I’m back to riding in a hunt seat saddle at a mixed discipline barn. It’s one of the few old school Pony Club lesson-type barns in my area, and fortunately I love the pony I’m riding in my lessons. I miss straight-up dressage and the horse I was leasing even more so. But I also recognize, for better or for worse, very few barns make money off of giving lessons on horses not owned or leased by the rider.
Why knows, maybe I will become brave and start popping over a few crossrails every now and then! :lol:
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Just for laughs:
So, I signed up for hunt seat lessons, hoping to get back into jumping since the logistics of the limited dressage school horses available has discouraged me. Long distances to travel and very expensive. I had my first hunt seat lesson yesterday, and it was an intro thing (how well does she ride, etc) so no jumping yet. HOWEVER. It was a solid 45 minute lesson, on a honkin’ big warmblood who was on the lazy side and required a lot of pushing. It ended up being basically a dressage lesson in a forward seat saddle. I pushed him to move out, and the instructor laughed and said, “Oh-oh. He’s just realized this rider is going to make him WORK.” :lol: We did leg yields, lots of circles, lots of transitions, and I believe the instructor is satisfied that I won’t kill myself trying to jump a few low fences. But, OMG. I’ve been riding my guy (who is tall, but base narrow) only at a walk for quite a while due to his injury, with the occasional use of a friend’s horse who can trot, but not canter (and, sadly, that horse died while I was at WEG - heartbreaking. He was 26, but still…) This horse was big and wide with a lot of movement.
Anyway, Sunday, after my “hunt seat lesson,” I rode my horse for 45 minutes, I went home, had lunch, showered, and sat to watch the baseball playoffs. About 30 minutes later, when I got up to get a drink, I moved like I was 93, not 73. I already knew, as do all serious riders, that the horse does NOT do all the work, but I really have the truth of it now - that I’m soooooo out of shape and I worked HARD during that lesson. I’m going to walk for 30 minutes at lunch today and hope that my muscles loosen up!!! (But I did sign up for another lesson this coming Saturday.) ;0)
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I ride a lot, but my mare is just coming back from a suspensory injury, so we are only walking 20 minutes every other day, so I have gotten a bit out of shape. I started working my friend’s Paint who has a tendency to be super lazy and suck behind the leg (he has mostly western pleasure training). Until I got him responding to the leg it was torture to ride him and I hurt so bad after each ride!
