Why do farms require outside trainer insurance?

[2LaZ2race]

Honest question, I’m not arguing it.

I board at a boarding stable and any outside trainers (the only “in-side” trainer gives mostly up down lessons) must have their own “instructors insurance”.

The BO didn’t say it was about them riding a horse on the farm (we have waivers for that a no one has to prove insurance), and anyone can rent the indoor and use it (no proof of insurance needed).

I guess my thinking is, if someone falls and gets hurt during a lesson, they’re going to sue whom ever they want. Just because the trainer has insurance doesn’t mean the rider won’t sue the barn.

Someone educate me on instructor’s insurance so this make sense to me!

[PeteyPie]

For one thing, the barn owner can sue the trainer with the possibility of actually collecting.

[2LaZ2race]

So if I fall off during a lesson, lets say because the footing is bad and my horse trips and falls on me.

I sue the barn, the barn would turn around and sue the trainer?

geeezzz

[PeteyPie]

Maybe. But that doesn’t mean the barn owner would prevail. I don’t know what the ruling would be or who would settle. You sound disgusted that the barn might sue the trainer in that situation, but an insurance company, or if it came to that, a judge, might wonder why a trainer would be having you ride a horse on bad footing. I mean, just for the sake of argument, it is not out of bounds to expect that a trainer would have some responsibility for evaluating safe conditions. Also, the whole thing might be thrown out of court on the basis that horseback riding is inherently dangerous and you would have to pay your own expenses. It might be determined that you yourself should have known better than to ride your horse on bad footing.

The thing is, you could come up with a thousand scenarios and there are many possible outcomes. A person can file a frivolous suit. A person can file a deserving lawsuit. A person can sue the wrong party and lose for that reason. Many lawsuits don’t even go to court (maybe most?) because they are settled.

I would think a more likely scenario would be something like a situation where a trainer instructs a student to do something beyond her ability and the student is injured, or a trainer injures the client’s horse, or a trainer molests a student. There are constantly stories on COTH about lawsuits involving horse sales where the trainer is involved in the sale as an agent or middleman or seller.

[Ambitious_Kate]

Trainer has student jump a fence she’s not ready for without a helmet. Not the BO’s fault. BO isn’t going to want her insurance taxed with this incident, and BO"s insurance will go after the instructor’s liablity insurance, I would think. I am not legal, and I don’t know for sure. You would probably have to read an instructor’s liablity policy.

It would be like a CPA having his own liablity insurance to work on a case. What he does in his professional capacity, such as taking a tax deduction or something, he is responsible for.

People with instructor’s liablity insurance might weigh in on the aspects of it they are covered with to clarify what an instructor is responsble for on an owner’s property.

Well, what if the student uses BO’s jumps and crashes them during the lesson? Maybe it means that the instructor should be responsible for replacing the broken equipment? I would think certain things like that, dunno.

[Guilherme]

In the event of a mishap the plaintiff’s lawyer will sue everybody because they don’t KNOW who, if anyone, is the responsible party. The BO doesn’t want to the be the only solvent defendants; neither does their insurance company.

My farm carrier requires my tenant to carry their own liability coverage for the same reasons.

G.

[Janet]

[QUOTE=2LaZ2race;7952717]
Honest question, I’m not arguing it.

I board at a boarding stable and any outside trainers (the only “in-side” trainer gives mostly up down lessons) must have their own “instructors insurance”.

…
Someone educate me on instructor’s insurance so this make sense to me![/QUOTE]

Typically because the Barn Owner’s insurance has a clause which requires all outside instructors to have insurance.

[Flash44]

What Janet said, and it’s possible that the trainer’s insurance will pay the first $XX,XXX of a claim before the barn owner’s insurance kicks in. It’s all about how the policies are written to see which policy may be primary and which may be secondary.

[spotmenow]

[QUOTE=Janet;7952829]
Typically because the Barn Owner’s insurance has a clause which requires all outside instructors to have insurance.[/QUOTE]

This exactly. And our agent was very specific about this particular clause.

[someday]

and any responsible trainer will want to have their own insurance anyway

[mjs8]

I’m not an expert, but I think it also makes a difference in which state you live. Most states have Equine Liability Acts, which help protect the barn. In NY, CA, and a couple others, there are no liability acts, so people can get all sorts of lawsuit happy in the event of a problem. I’ve found that in those states, BOs are a lot more adamant about trainer’s carrying their own liability insurance because it reduces their own risk.

[Laurierace]

[QUOTE=someday;7952960]
and any responsible trainer will want to have their own insurance anyway :)[/QUOTE]
Agree with this completely. If they don’t have insurance you don’t want them teaching you anyway.

[KayBee]

A question not relevant to me, but just wondering…

Say you own a private home and allow people on property to either

• ride their own horse
• ride your horse
• board

Do insurance companies that provide homeowners insurance typically have policies for that available? Or are their insurance companies that specialize?

And in any of these cases, are the non-residents required to have a policy?

[tabula_rashah]

Because we live in a society where people are sue happy and it’s perfectly legal and often encouraged to be so.

[arlosmine]

I’m a trainer.
In my opinion, if you have a trainer who doesn’t already carry insurance, you have a waving red flag. You have to protect yourself these days, and insurance is part of the cost of doing business. The only people I know who don’t have insurance are unqualified to keep their students safe.
When some one is taking a lesson with you, YOU are responsible for their safety in the sense that you are supposed to be making judgements about what they are capable of doing, based on your professional opinion.

[Lady_Eboshi]

[QUOTE=someday;7952960]
and any responsible trainer will want to have their own insurance anyway :)[/QUOTE]

And it’s not very expensive. If you’re freelancing at other people’s barns, have your agent give you a “Certificate of Additional Insured” made out with the LEGAL name of the BO whose place you’re training at. If you work out of multiple venues, get one for each. This is basic “Business 101” paperwork and a matter of professionalism.

[Princess_Sparkles]

I run a boarding barn. We are insured for boarding and lessons (our own instructor on site). It is a REQUIREMENT of my boarding insurance that ALL outside coaches/trainers carry their own insurance. Period. It would void my insurance in the case of an accident if it was discovered that an uninsured third party was giving lessons at my place.

This is a completely logical requirement for an insurance company. Most people don’t realize that in situations where there are accidents and people sue, it is ALMOST ALWAYS insurance companies duking it out with each other, not individuals. (At least in Canada, speaking from a Canadian lawyer’s perspective here). One person’s insurance is suing the other’s insurance. Tort law is about suing whomever has the deepest pockets, not who may actually be at fault (Tort 101 for you folks!). So yes, if a third party coach is teaching at my farm and their student has an accident and tries to sue me/my farm, my insurance will in turn sue that third party coach’s insurance. If they don’t have insurance, I will be SOL, because my insurance is not going to want to foot that bill.

Had one coach show up to teach a couple of my boarders. Asked for proof of insurance and she showed me her OEF card (for non-Canadians/Ontarians, this is general rider/horse owner liability insurance). I said, sorry honey, that is not coaching insurance, no way no how. She’s been teaching for a YEAR at farms all over the place without proper insurance and no one had caught on to her before this. She claimed she didn’t know that was not proper insurance.

Maybe its because I’m a lawyer, but I’d rather shell out the money and KNOW I’m covered than risk paying a lawsuit out of pocket (especially since there is a deductible on your insurance that is not low!!!). Mind is blown by third party coaches who don’t protect themselves, and barns that allow them to teach without proof of insurance!

[Princess_Sparkles]

Kay Bee, I rent my farm property separate from where I live, so I’m not completely sure if homeowner insurance will cover a private/small boarding facility. But there is specialty boarding/lesson/equine business coverage that several companies offer. I’m in Canada, so companies here that have it include Henry Equestrian Insurance and Intercity Insurance. Coverage is based on what you offer (boarding, lessons, training, shows, clinics, etc). My insurance even offers coverage for “rough stock events” (bullriding? bucking horses? who knows?). Obviously I don’t have that coverage and I don’t even want to know what it would cost!

[trubandloki]

I would feel much better about being at a barn that covers their bases by requiring all outside instructors to have insurance than a barn who does not bother with insurance.

[anon40672407]

I believe, in California at any rate, that if a trainer is giving a lesson, they, not the rider, are considered the responsible party in any accident. Not only can the barn sue the trainer, the student can sue the trainer.

So, insurance is a must.

Insurance policies of barn owners require it elsewhere as well because (often) trainers don’t have deep pockets. In the case of big medical bills, for example, the barn owner has a large asset at risk – their property. So they need insurance to protect that.