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Why do other diciplines slam the H/J world so much?

Hunter/Jumper
#101

I will be the first to admit that I am too Chicken to event. I see the scary wrecks and really don’t want to do that. I want a jump to fall down if I miss or my horse messes up.

I do respect those that are brave enough to try it… and I don’t bash them, even if I do think it’s very risky and potentially deadly… the results lately have proven that.

I don’t want my horse flipping on me. I have had some scary crashes in jumpers, but my horse is standing up at the end of it. Could it happen, could he flip? Yes… but the risk is less. That is a fact, which I am more comfortable with.

Do I go around telling my eventing friends… THEY ARE KILLING THEMSELVES THEIR HORSES AND THEY ARE BAD PEOPLE? NOOOOOOOOOO, I DO NOT. Nor do I think they are bad for doing their sport. I am just sick of them telling me H/J people are bad…

I just wouldn’t do that. So why do a lot of eventers not think twice about saying we H/J people are stupid bad riders, just out to make a buck? We know nothing of riding and horsemanship??

That’s messed up.

:no:

#102

Hunter riders can’t ride
Eventers are all yahoos
Dressage riders are all rich prima donnas
WP riders all torture their horses to get that peanut roller look
Gaited horses are all abused
Appaloosas are stupid
TBs are hot
WBs are dumb
QHs are all built funny
etc
etc
etc

All this proves is that the art of generalization and more than a little prejudice are alive and well in the horse world, just like the rest of the world.

OP, if your friends won’t go to a hunter show and cheer you on because they personally don’t do hunters, you need new friends.
Being upset because everybody doesn’t like hunters is not going to make these people into fun people to be around.

I don’t do hunters, but the amount of time that I spend at hunter shows, grooming, washing, holding, polishing boots, giving pep talks, cheering…well I might as well do hunters. It doesn’t appeal to me, but I like horses and horse shows and my horsey friends and I go to support them, have a good time and watch beautiful horses.

My response is find some new friends and don’t worry about who does or doesn’t like xxxxx discipline.

#103

Hunters of today are galaxies away from hunters 20 or 30 years ago. I don’t need to expound on that. Look at photos and you will see what I mean. It is true that much emphasis today is put on the “pretty” factor. We had never heard of fake tails in the seventies! And the jumps - well, there were walls, and coops, and real fences. And the horse that got around clean at a moderate pace with a rider who stayed with him in good form won! We wore practical clothing, the plainer the better. We rode effectively, not always “pretty”. Any breed could win.
I was a part of the hunter world and did well. I would not pin today. There is a “snob factor” that did not exist in the past. Rightly or wrongly perceived, it is there.

#104

No, no, no. Appys are STUBBORN. Not stupid. :winkgrin:

#105

darn! for once I thought I had the list right!!!
:lol:

#106

[QUOTE=enjoytheride;3098964]
As an eventer I was in a tackstore trying out new and used saddles. I found a nice used jumping saddle made in England that had a round cantle. The clerk told me that I would not be able to place at a hunter show because of the shape of my saddle’s cantle and that if I wanted to do well I needed one with a square cantle. That gave me a bad first impression about hunters. [/QUOTE]

I don’t mean to pick on you, but I frequently see similar posts where someone was told by a tack store clerk that they wouldn’t pin in hunters without XYZ. Do you think maybe the tack store was just trying to sell you a more expensive saddle, breeches, helmet, etc?

Hey, I’ve had a tack store clerk tell me the helmet that fit me was the most expensive one and, gee, I wore a size smaller than normal. I’m sure it was just a coincidence that the smaller size was the largest they had in stock. And I must have been imagining that I would have needed hydrolics to wedge my head into that thing!

#107

Change is inevitable right?

For me, I don’t waste time bemoaning the fate of the hunter ring…instead, I try to up my game to be competitive.

I’ve come to realize that the “snob” factor that people like so often to refer to is often plain ignorance. Hunters ARE a breed all unto their own now and if you want to play, you need to learn the rules.

Example…why show up on a 14hh Morgan for the A/A division and than gripe that the “political” judge wouldn’t place you b/c you put whatever strides were “right for your horse” in the lines?!?

It’s no secret what is placing and if you don’t like it; find another discipline. If you do…you need to turn out a horse to that affect.

#108

This is very true. The thing is if you are friends with someone that does this and you want it to stop, how do you get them to stop? It’s very annoying!!

:smiley:

#109

I did not read all of this thread and I confess I know little about the H/J world. But I’ve sold afew of the horses I’ve bred to H/J folks.

This is NOT exclusive to the HJ world, but I have a problem with stuff like 3 yr. old futurities over fences. Why in heaven’s name do people even support this kind of nonsense? JUMPING 3 yr olds? There is no “horsemanship” in that.

But I’ve seen abuse and greed in just about every aspect of the commerical, competitive horse world, so HJ is not alone.

In fact, when I stop to think about it, I can’t think of any horse “sport” that doesn’t involve “abuse” in one fashion or another, unless it might be competitive trail. I would think eventers might be careful who they point fingers at…

Just someone from outside the HJ world chiming in.

#110

Interesting. As a former eventer turned dressage rider (who has also dabbled in hunters, hacks and jumpers) I always thought that the eventers and the dressage riders got the most bashing…

You will never see me criticize the really good hunter riders. Almost anyone can chase horses over smaller jumps and hang on. But make it look smooth pleasant and effortless? That takes ability

#111

How do you get them to stop? Ask them to string together eight jumps with perfect rhythm and perfect spots and a horse that looks like a quiet pleasurable ride but still jumps with his knees up to his eyeballs. Best of luck to them.

#112

[QUOTE=moonriverfarm;3099406]
Hunters of today are galaxies away from hunters 20 or 30 years ago. I don’t need to expound on that. Look at photos and you will see what I mean. It is true that much emphasis today is put on the “pretty” factor. We had never heard of fake tails in the seventies! And the jumps - well, there were walls, and coops, and real fences. And the horse that got around clean at a moderate pace with a rider who stayed with him in good form won! We wore practical clothing, the plainer the better. We rode effectively, not always “pretty”. Any breed could win.
I was a part of the hunter world and did well. I would not pin today. There is a “snob factor” that did not exist in the past. Rightly or wrongly perceived, it is there.[/QUOTE]

I think it’s fair to say that eventing has deviated significantly from what it was at the beginning. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t eventing originate from the military and the needs of the cavalry? I don’t think that they were jumping miniature houses or barns back then, picnic tables, etc. They were doing their jobs, which were often life threatening, and it wasn’t a sport - it was a military operation.

As the sport evolved, so did its qualifications and necessities. That’s the nature of change, and both disciplines are still evolving - the H/J world is slowly bringing back the older nature of the hunters through the insistance of the big guns, like GM. Hopefully the eventing world will take a closer look to see what needs to be changed, for the ‘betterment’ of the sport.

#113

Quickly skimming all of this thread I have to say that I too hate the bashing of the h/j world, but I dont let it get to me and I just deal with it.

Every dicipline has its flaws, none are perfect, and everyone has a preference. I personally chose hunters because as a little girl who wasnt able to ride, I always went to our state fair and sat in the coliseum and wished that one day I would have a horse and I would ride and jump. Finally in 10th grade we moved to the country and I was able to start riding.

Eventing is not my thing, but I give props to those who do it. I dont have the guts to do it. The idea of being able to crash over solid obstacles so easily freaks me out. It took me a long time just to get the guts to jump a coop.

Just because I ride the hunters doesnt mean I agree with all aspects of it. I personally dislike WB’s and I would never buy one. I will never have “daddy” paying for everything, and I sure as hell dont worry about having the perfect “brands”. I brush/wash/braid/tack my own horse. I work my ass off 5-7 days a week just to ride. I ride whatever is in the barn and do my best to get that horse ready for the show ring.

I am that girl that shows the local circuit and maybe a rated show here and there. I am that girl who will proudly ride the OTTB turned hunter.

I do my best to look the part and ride the correct way- not laying on my horses neck, not having an over-dramatic release and doing my best to have a good solid leg. I do my best to make the horse look the part as well.

I welcome anyone to the h/j world, but agree that it is what it is and you must accept it before entering…

#114

This is a very good topic and I will share a story.

So I was at a local farm/garden store buying some stuff for my horse. My mother had come with me and she was talking to the guy that worked there. It was very obvious that he is a cowboy. So he is telling us(going ON AND ON) about his sons and horses and how he only feeds his horses bread and hay or whatever, blah, blah, blah, who cares. I personally think that feeding your horse bread as their main diet is not acceptable but I don’t want to start a fight so I won’t say anything more about the bread deal! So when the guy asked what discipline I ride my horse I told him Hunter/Jumper and he goes…“Oh, me and my boys have a name for english riders.”:eek: How incredibly rude is that? And I think he told us that they call us snobby or something. You know, I could have a name for cowboys too but I wouldn’t go around telling people, WHO I KNOW ARE COWBOYS, what the name is would I? No, I wouldn’t, and I never will.

I should have said to him, “Atleast my horse is on an appropriate diet that is actually made for horses and not goats that live in a pen at the vegetable farm.” that would have been pretty funny!

#115

Touche!

You have a good point there, and with the rider looking like they aren’t scared to death…

I personally enjoy riding for enjoyment… not to prove anything that I can jump the scariest course or do every event on one horse.

I want to ride well at whatever I do, even if it’s just hacking around.

#116

I so wasn’t going to post on this thread. Sigh. But this reminded me of a personal incident from a few years ago. I event. I have a very good friend who does only trail riding on his arabians. He knew what I was all about in terms of my riding, and I knew what he was all about. All good. We had never ridden together, mostly through getting schedules to align than anything else. Our schedules finally align. We meet for a ride at Valley Forge Park, me on my hot TB mare, I’m wearing my breeches and tall boots and the black beanie cap. He shows up in his scruffy jeans on his little Ay-rab and western saddle… along with about 10 of his friends, also similarly attired in jeans and western saddle and Ay-rabs. I already knew that as a group they loved to gallop and have fast, fun rides. I could TELL that his friends were all looking askance at me, thinking how ~un-fun~ this ride would be with the prissy english rider.

To a man, they changed their tune when my TB mare beat them galloping up every hill… and we were both still raring to go after a three hour ride. And once I started jumping the picnic tables, all thoughts of prissy english girls were long gone. Now I’ll admit I jumped those tables on purpose in front of them as a “so there” kind of thing. But I’d been jumping those tables at Valley Forge park long before I rode with this group of cowboys. :smiley:

Everyone had a great time. Attitudes were changed that day. We had many fun rides after that- how often does a woman in the horse world get to be the only girl in a big group of GUYS??!!

I have friends who ride hunters, dressage, event, trail ride, do endurance. I have learned valuable, important things from every single discipline through my friends, and through all the forums on this board, and through real life observation. Granted, I have also learned HORRIBLE things about each discipline (most recently from the Calming thread- grinding down withers? I’ve been horrified for days and days since I read that…)

Eventing has plenty of it’s own problems, as does hunters, jumpers, dressage, WP, Gaited horses, halter horses, NH, etc etc…so far be it for any sport to cast stones at any others.

#117

You tell them that most TOP event trainers and riders aspire to make their xc rounds look like a working hunter round. There are things to be learned from all the disciplines and good horsepeople know that.

#118

If you get into a tit for tat about disciplines you are just asking for an argument and a rehash of the above list. Tell them that you value their friendship and you would really appreciate their support in your chosen sport, as you support them in theirs (whatever it is).
Say it sincerely, with a smile, and if they don’t either apologize or crawl away like slime, they really are not the right friends for you.

#119

[QUOTE=La Gringa;3097422]
I personally am getting sick of it. I came up through the H/J/Equitation ranks, and I learned what it was to be a horseman…

The stereotype of the H/J world is unfair. There are plenty of good honest horse people in the H/J realm. There are also plenty of good riders that come up the ranks, who didn’t necessarily have daddy paying the way with fancy horses…

I live amongst a lot of eventers in my area that have nothing good to say about H/J people. I am a H/J person, and I am PROUD of it! I loved the equitation stuff I did as a jr, and the jumpers I did in South America, and even though EVENTING isn’t for me, I don’t go slamming people because it’s not my sport…

I am ranting here… but I think justifiably. I am just sick of it.

;)[/QUOTE]

Well. I am an aspiring hunter rider myself, so please don’t take anything I say here out of context.

Please let me begin the first part of my reply with a quote that hits a little too to home for many of us in the horse world: “The best way to make money in the horse world is to start out with a lot more money.” Don’t take this the wrong way, please. I don’t pretend to be one of those that has unlimited monetary resources, and I accept that as an obstacle, but never a limitation, to my future riding career. I will not be one of those with the “perfect” horse handed to me by a groom, but I honestly don’t want that.

However I do accept that if I ever get to the level that I am up against those that do get that, yes, they probably do have an advantage. Not anything that cannot be overcome by any means, but it is there. I hope you understand what I am saying here.

Honest people? Yes, I have met some wonderful people in this discipline. However I believe that drugging your horse (and in my world, this includes things that do not test- Depo, overdoses of calcium and potassium, etc. Just because it doesn’t test doesn’t mean it is right) to win is not honest, and the hunter discipline especially has an unfortunate, and in my humble opinion, DESERVED, reputation for drug use over the past few years. I do appreciate the new standards and tests, but it takes a while to clean up that reputation.

And as far as the hunter/jumpers being the only ones being slammed, please be aware of the negative attention that eventing has been getting recently. With the injury of a well-known rider and a few horses already this season, even USEA is taking notice. Eventing has long had a reputation for being unsafe and even cruel to the horse.

I understand where you are coming from, and it is always frustrating and even infuriating at times to have a discipline that you love abused, but please try to see the reasoning behind it. It is not born out of nothing.

All we can do is move forward and try to clear some of the things that people are talking about, but also understand that the stereotypes will always be there, no matter how far we move past them. We cannot obliterate them completely, but we can ask our fellow equestrians to keep an open mind. Our goal should be trying to fade the unfortunate events and occurences that have sparked the stereotypes in the beginning, and bring back the morals and ethics that I believe will make the hunter-jumper discipline a truly better sport.

Thanks for listening.

-Horsegirl

#120

[QUOTE=Equibrit;3097442]
Aaaaaaah - poor little princess!

Why don’t you just - like - you know - go shopping?[/QUOTE]

Ok, So what SOME people on the H/J Circut have money, who cares? Look at Megan Young for example She won the Pessoa Hunt Seat Eq. Finals in 2004 and she has never owned a horse in her entire life! There are people out there who have skills, maybe do have money, and not jerks.

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