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Why do other diciplines slam the H/J world so much?

Hunter/Jumper
#141

ROTFLMAO @ hunter princess! It’s stereotyped up the wazoo but so is the blue collar show this is lifted from.

I don’t know where all the defiance comes from. It is overkill in my meaning.

I am a feminist. I can do everything I need to get done myself. If I can’t do it myself, I can most certainly reach into my wallet and pay somebody else to do it for me, or wave my booty a little and get my neighbor to help for free. I hold my head high, I got the job done utilizing my skills.

Same goes for the h/j. If you can do what you can do, (and pay somebody to do what you can’t) then you are in good shape. Enjoy the personal satisfaction it gives you to know your value and walk with your head high.

There’s different aspects to every sport but arguing them is redundant. The person who looks to argue their superiority over others clearly has self esteem issues. You are not paied to deal with those so just let it go knowing that you are the bigger person.

#142

Haven’t read the entire thread, but I’m an eventer, and I wonder how much of this, on both sides, comes from people feeling offended when someone doesn’t choose the discipline that makes their own heart sing.

I’ve been to hunter/jumper shows, from schooling to the AA’s. Honestly, it ain’t for me. Doesn’t mean I think all the riders suck (some are AMAZING, some are godawful) or can’t care for their horses (some can and some can’t). But, it’s not my scene. I don’t like the emphasis on fashion (for humans and horses), I don’t like the classes offered, and most importnatly I CAN’T STAND THE WAITING AROUND. I’d rather put rusty needles in my eyes than wait around staring at an empty ring waiting for someone to get all their ducks and entourage in a row in order to go in the ring.

But, that doesn’t mean I “hate” hunter jumper folks, or think it’s a stupid discipline that shouldn’t exist. I’ve been uttered absolutely speechless by the beauty of some of the rides and riding I’ve seen there. But, wow, I’m miserable for the majority of the time I’m at a H/J show.

I don’t agree with a lot of the horse management decisions that I see and hear about getting made in that world. But I also disagree with horse management decisions being made in a lot of worlds. I think horses are meant to live out in fields with a buddy and move and eat all day long. I think it makes for happy and sound horses, even at the hgihest levels (I have three actively competing CCI**, moving up to advanced horses here, and they all live out). Obviously, a great many horses from a great many walks of life spend their lives in stalls or in vans living a life that I deem incorrect. And it goes without saying that many people disagree with the “dangerous” and “risky” method of horsekeeping I prefer.

However, I realized reading this thread, that someone saying to me, “meh-I tried evenitng, too crazy, cross country was scary, dressage is boring, everything is a hurry, and the vests are ugly and uncomfortbale–give me the hunter ring anyday . . .” would probably get my back up a bit, and make me feel sensitive. Like, how could you not LOVE MY sport? How could you? :winkgrin:

So I started wondering how much ACTUAL bashing is going on, and how much is just people saying, hey, it’s not for me because of x. y. or z, and that gets interpreted as bashing.

#143

BarbB, will you be my friend? :yes:

I like horses and horse shows and my horsey friends and I go to support them, have a good time and watch beautiful horses

If there are horses attached, I’m there. Poor, long suffering Trixie has found herself signed up for hunt camps, bombproofing clinics, a two day event clinic with Australian, Tarsha Hammond, riding the cross country course at Rubicon and she’s currently holding her breath to see if I’m sending her off on a judged trail ride. In exchange for her cooperation in filling my horsie social schedule, we fit in a few hunter shows to keep her inner traditionalist content. :winkgrin:

Last summer, we determined that the second horse in our “string” was best suited to the jumpers and she dutifully accomodated me, ending up the summer with a wonderful showing at the VHSA jumper finals. She did it tidy and inexpensive but did let herself go wild, wearing polo shirts and using square pads at the local shows. :lol:

She puts up with me because I provide food.

#144

I used to board at an eventing barn. At first everyone criticized me for being a h/j rider. When I started taking some clinics from a trainer that came monthly everyone realized the precision involved in riding a hunter. I rarely missed in our jumping exercises and my horse had beautiful flat work.
It is just different. I gained perspective about their sport and vise versa! Not all eventers are so closed minded.

#145

[QUOTE=LiveToFly;3099204]
I’ve meant severaL that do not like hunters. Not saying they all do it or anything, but it sort of makes sense that some wouldent because eventing is the only other sport that focus’s on jumping besides h/j’s. I know this is somewhat of a generalization, but it is just what i’ve been exposed too. Out of my own curiosity, could someone in eventing say if they have noticed the same thing?

BTW-NOTHING against eventing.[/QUOTE]

Comment deleted because I was just being argumentative. :smiley:

#146

[QUOTE=Little Valkyrie;3099772]
Obviously the steriotypes will still exist, but I think we need to respect the strengths of each sport. [/QUOTE]

Well said!

#147

This made me remember a horse trial I competed at back in the day (80’s), in Idaho. Pretty early eventing days for that state then. It was fairly rough and ready, when dressage was something you did to get to go cross country, and we could barely find a xc course to practice on as it was all on private farmland for the most part.
Anyway, a h/j barn came up from Utah. I had never been exposed much to hunters, and damn if they didn’t kick my (and a lot of our) butts. Put in decent dressage tests since they were relaxed and obedient, obviously did something right as they seemed to have a great time jumping (BN I think) xc courses, and then did the stadium. :eek: I still remember the stadium round of one girl. It looked so EASY and beautiful (especially to me who was still kicking and praying), I had never seen anything like it at the time, no chips, no getting left behind, magically landing on the correct lead or even <gasp> flying changes. Beautiful! :yes:

#148

I think people don’t get what hunters and eq is actually judged on.

  1. The NUMBER 1 priority- finding 8 distances, getting all lead changes, putting the correct number of steps in a line.

  2. Number 2- make it look smooth and even and easy.

  3. Your horse needs a nice jump.

Number 1 is not easy to achieve, especially while keeping number 2 in mind. Number 3 probably only comes into play at the top of the sport- but probably 90% of horses in other disciplines do not have this jumping style.

Yes, jumping a hunter course like a jumper or eventer is simple. It’s easy to “get around”. It’s harder to put in a winning trip.

#149

[QUOTE=CBoylen;3099826]
Not to pick on you personally, RideTX, but I wanted to respond to your quote because I read almost the same words a lot online about the eq division. Maybe in your case there were politics involved or maybe not. But I think a lot of people place way too much emphasis on the position in the eq, and it can lead to this perception of politics. Your rider with the less than perfect posture could very possibly have had the best course, and that far outweighed any position flaws. It’s mostly about the actual ride, even if the division IS equitation. A flawed position is going to beat a flawed course almost every time, because the riders are not being judged on still pictures, they’re being judged on how they are influencing their horse. When the judge has rounds to choose between that are in the same score range, then they can place more emphasis on posture. But when the girl with the leg that slides back finds the jumps, and the others make mistakes, then she’s going to win.
Again, I just used your post to make a point, because it seems online you run across a lot of “it must be politics, my leg/release/hands/seat looks MUCH better than Miss Equitation Star 2008’s”, but very few people stop to wonder if their ROUNDS look better than the rider’s whose picture they’re picking apart.[/QUOTE]

Great post Chanda, I think a lot is being said here that should be considered before people think something unfair is going on…of course sometimes it is unfari and very subjective, but we have all seen people upset over something when there was a reason that they either would not accept or deal with…it is easier to blame the judge than honestly look at one’s self…only human nature…

#150

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

#151

DMK…I want credit for dogchushu’s latest bit of hilarity. Please. :winkgrin: :lol: (nice work, dogchushu ;))

:lol: I find ALL warm-ups terrifying, even the dressage warm-up. So many people staring at ears and doing lateral work. :eek:

But as a wise person once said, it’s what your comfortable with. Seriously. I HATE eventing warm-ups…or at least Low level eventing warm-ups. People have heard me say it here before…but the stadium warm up is the only place I’ve ever been smashed into and knocked off my horse. (I have a theory on this…most H/J riders take at least one group lesson a week…or start out in group lessons. You learn to negotiate traffic. Most eventers/dressage riders take private lessons and don’t ride in groups as often. The heavy traffic skills just aren’t there, IMO).

[quote=TBCrazy;3100282]H/J crowd only sets courses that cater to them…i.e. a hunter course with maybe a possible bending line…no grids or in-n-outs, no tight turn options, no scary roll-tops or coups.
The list of grievances goes on and on and on…
[/quote]

Just a suggestion…even if it’s a line, you don’t have to ride it as such. Roll back from the in of the side line to the out of a diagonal. Do figure eight roll backs using one line. IMO, and speaking from experience, there are usually countless options on a hunter course…they are just never used. (this comes from the hunter ride who loves to turn so I’m always coming up with bending lines and roll backs ,etc) (Also…roll tops and coops, boxes, etc…should be a part of any hunter course :yes:)

[quote=TBCrazy;3100282]To all you H/J riders that talk smack about other disciplines, maybe go sit in their saddles for a while first. Your fancy-pants hunter might not slam on the breaks at some different colored flowers if you would school over some scary looking xc jumps, and your eq. horse might listen to that test in the work off a little better if you schooled some dressage, and your high-strung jumper that has to be lead from the barn to the ring could surely benefit from some long walks out on the trails.
[/quote]

Um, ouch. My not so fancy pants hunter is a hunter for a reason. He doesn’t stop at different colored flowers and jumping a log or table with a few flowers under it wouldn’t be an issue. Hunter jumps are by far more visually scary than anything you see on the XC field…well, maybe not those squirrel jumps, but for the most part…XC jumps are scarier for the rider than the horse. And dressage? Any decent eq horse has dressage training. The top eq horses can probably do a decent 3rd level test.

#152

It’s not cheating. In Dressage and Eventing it WOULD be cheating. To those that only show H/J’ers having a trainer warm up the horse is commonplace. No big deal, it’s perfectly legal. I would LOVE to be able to have a trainer warm up my horse for Dressage at events. I spent an entire year working on getting a quality BN test out of a very well schooled dressage horse before I got it right. I got my butt kicked by people with far less schooled horses. Those people could RIDE better. Had I been able to have a trainer warm him up for dressage it would have required a whole lot less effort on my part. But I’m glad I stuck with it cause now it’s paying off.

However, I for one would be curious to see how the tables might turn for some riders if they had to warm up their own horse for the Hunters/Eq. It would be a very interesting rule change for those on the sidelines to observe in action. I doubt it will ever happen though. There are plenty of riders that warm up their own mounts in the Hunters/Eq, but there are plenty that don’t as well. I think it might result in some rather errr interesting rides in the chidrens and adult divisions:eek:. I think alot of people would stay home and practice more before going out to horseshow. JMHO:winkgrin:

#153

If you think only the h/j world gets slammed, then you are naive.

For instance: try posting something about AQHA breed shows anywhere on this forum. Within minutes you’ll have the masses crawling in to comment about peanut rollers, fake tails, glittery outfits, oh the HORROR. Whether it’s true or not.

#154

Amen to that! I always try to find the most remote areas to warm up my horse as possible. I’ve done warm ups in a few different disciplines. There is no such thing as a UNscary warm up IME. They are ALL terrifying.

#155

Actually, the scariest warm up of all is when you ride within 10 feet of the dressage rider who has only ever warmed up at dressage shows and has no experience of h/j warm up ring chaos. The reaction you get is quite scary :eek:

#156

[QUOTE=TBCrazy;3100282]

H/J crowd only sets courses that cater to them…i.e. a hunter course with maybe a possible bending line…no grids or in-n-outs, no tight turn options, no scary roll-tops or coups.
The list of grievances goes on and on and on…

As a h/j rider who likes to venture into other disciplines, I just can’t take anymore. I have shown successfully in hunters, jumpers, and equitation at the A shows on a gasp thoroughbred.

To all you H/J riders that talk smack about other disciplines, maybe go sit in their saddles for a while first. Your fancy-pants hunter might not slam on the breaks at some different colored flowers if you would school over some scary looking xc jumps, and your eq. horse might listen to that test in the work off a little better if you schooled some dressage, and your high-strung jumper that has to be lead from the barn to the ring could surely benefit from some long walks out on the trails.

Whew!! Glad to get all that off my chest…:)[/QUOTE]

I don’t think anyone would “gasp” at you being on a thoroughbred in the hunter, or jumper, or eq ring. There are plenty of lovely TB’s in all of those rings…Now you may get a gasp if you were on, say…a donkey…but TB, NO;)

And I hate to stire the pot, but I feel like your “shout out” to all the hunter riders on their fancy pants hunters, eq horses, and high strung jumpers is incredibly ignorant. Actually, just a fabulous example of the stereotypes that have been spoken about in this entire thread. RugBug actually summed up a response quite nicely.

#157

Am I the only one that has noticed that some of you are defending your sport by tearing down others (just like you are mad at other people for doing to your sport). When you say the things about horses dropping dead on course, do you think that is a fair thing to say? What about having some compassion for your fellow horsemen (just like YOU want) who have lost their partners! How would you feel if you read things like that about YOUR horse after YOU lost a partner and friend?! Personally I feel like you are just giving those who tear you down more ammunition by saying such things!

#158

[QUOTE=Mozart;3101065]
Actually, the scariest warm up of all is when you ride within 10 feet of the dressage rider who has only ever warmed up at dressage shows and has no experience of h/j warm up ring chaos. The reaction you get is quite scary :eek:[/QUOTE]

AGREED! Try riding with them at home. I went from a busy H/J show barn with a small indoor where we could have 6+ schooling or lessoning with no problems to a place with a HUGE indoor with dressage riders where I feared for my life if there were 2 of them in there. They don’t call, they don’t seem to live by the left to left rule and they are apt to go sideways or stop at any given time. Very distracting.

#159

The answer is real simple. They are jealous. We have more numbers, clout, money, better horses, and status than they do. Hell, we buy event horses at bargain basement prices to us if they make hunters. I’m not trying to be cruel, it is what it is.

#160

[QUOTE=BridalBridle;3101183]
The answer is real simple. They are jealous. We have more numbers, clout, money, better horses, and status than they do. Hell, we buy event horses at bargain basement prices to us if they make hunters. I’m not trying to be cruel, it is what it is.[/QUOTE]

I think you just answered the OP’s question.

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