Why is my horse now scared of jumps?

[jcc813]

Thanks for the considerate reply.

I haven’t noticed him grinding and the vets didn’t note any evidence of it. He is a cribber, but a pretty mild one. When I mentioned that to the vet and the bodyworker, they both said they didn’t see much evidence of it where you typically would for cribbers.

To be more specific it’s a Kimberwicke bit which my trainer had given me for my previous horse who could sometimes also get strong. We started the first couple jump lessons in my D ring turtle top bit, but I needed more leverage when he would rush the jumps so I switched to this one. I’ve played with the rein position a few times–it’s currently on the lowest slot.

For the trial videos in the outdoor arena he was in a loose ring snaffle. On XC I’m now noticing/remembering he was in a different bridle that I think was an eggbutt. Both indoor videos are the same Kimberwicke.

I wouldn’t say I’m ever nervous in a fearful way in these lessons. The obstacles are so small I usually start out feeling confident that we can get over. If anything I probably have been taking it too much for granted and assuming he’s not going to balk when we’re just starting out over basically a speed bump. So when he does start stopping it’s more that I get flustered which he does probably read. I will say I don’t love doing those awkward jumps from a stop or when he speeds off after a jump but otherwise I’m not necessarily nervous to jump.

[SadieRidingHorses]

Are you in a position where you can easily get a second opinion from a different instructor, even if it’s only for a single lesson? Or where you can pay a professional to give the guy a ride?

I know that switching trainers might seem overwhelming, particularly when you are so early in your relationship with him. But some smart people on this thread (smarter than me) have pointed out issues with a few training choices that seem like large red flags to an outsider. A second opinion really might help, if it’s at all possible to get one.

[stargzng386]

Keep in mind a lot of times when horses are rushing fences it’s because they’re not confident and may have been over faced too soon. If you really introduce jumping slowly and methodically and build up over time they usually won’t rush. A lot of owners and trainers can mistake the rushing for excitement until the horse is too over faced and starts refusing.

[jcc813]

Yeah that’s totally valid. He’s definitely not going faster in a nice “taking me to the jump” way that I’ve experienced on other horses. It’s rush in and rush out.

My husband also has a young TB who was started slowly over a couple months when he came off the track. They’ve been slowly and carefully working with our trainer, who also does training rides on him, over the past couple years and he’s turned out to be a nice confident jumper. Although he’s very athletic, he does not rush the jumps and has never had a run out.

[omare]

Hind suspensory issues can also be real sneaky and impact willingness to work over fences. I had one leased out and it took several vets etc. to diagnose what was going on. He would try but during this time, it was one of the few times he stopped/ran out. But I sure do not want to suggest running up a vet bill on my anecdotal experience. Hopefully an experienced vet can identify valid issues without with running up too big of a bill!
(P.S. Have you tried to see how he is free jumping over small poles? Just curious.)
(oops edit, cant spell as usual!)

[glenburn]

As Rodney used to say, if you can’t get your horse nice in the mouth, you can’t go to the jumps.

[NaturallyHappy]

And, it starts from the hind end…back to front as opposed to shaping them front to back. I have The Three Masters video tapes w Rodney along w another video of his. Lucky you if you got to ride w him/hang. around!!!

[subk]

He’s not forward. In the videos in each new environment he gets progressively more behind your leg and less and less forward. This will chip away at a horse’s confidence.

Moving to an indoor will naturally back a horse off, adding a curb? Even more so. So he’s not forward and you’re increasing the bit and riding him even less forward.

It looks to me like a very common cycle that creates a stopping problem: Rider doesn’t have the horse forward enough, horse compensates by rushing, rider reacts to the rushing by pulling and demanding the horse to be less forward usually with more hand which exacerbates the rushing and rushing progressively chips away at the horse’s confidence. Horse starts stopping.

Put him back in a simple snaffle. Kick him up and get him forward. If the horse rushes IGNORE IT. He rushes and you pull so he pulls and when he pulls you pull. Vicious cycle.

One of you has to be adult enough to the first one to stop pulling and it won’t be the horse.

This is where gymnastic will be your friend. The steps are measured and you can let go and let the distances set the stride. But you must go into the gymnastic forward with super quiet hands and you have to make a promise to him that you aren’t going to restrict him in the mouth, ever again.

You have to get him to trust you that you won’t get into his mouth.

ETA: I know this because of personal experience!! So no judgement here!

[crthunder]

My horse has always loved our jumping adventures (we are dressage types the rest of the time ) but one day he would not jump a cross rail. Very out of character. He was fine for all the upper level dressage work and trail. He was due for his vet dental check anyway so vet checked him over. I felt dumb for missing the slight swelling above his coronary band. Shot X-rays and injected front coffin joints. No problems since! So I vote have him checked out by your vet. Especially before it builds and becomes a bigger confidence issue…

[SadieRidingHorses]

@subk great post!

[Equisis]

OP, I say this kindly- I do not think this horse trusts your hands, or your decision making.

In the trial video, you are largely letting him sort things out while you point him around. He’s not finished, but he clearly knows what he’s doing. He seems happy enough to bop along with minimal input from you, relying on his experience.

In the December video, he starts out looking pretty nice, then starts to deteriorate. There are a couple of sketchy distances where he still jumps, but he starts to want to make his own decisions about pace and striding. You start to pull more and he very visibly objects. Then, he runs out. There is a clear pattern here where you are interfering with his way of going, and he is getting frustrated and losing confidence.

In the most recent video, he looks very stressed. I don’t think this is an appropriate time to use a lunge whip to direct him, or to force him over the X- horses just don’t learn in that state of mind. From your description of the lesson, it sounds like he became progressively overwhelmed to the point that he just checked out.

I don’t say this to sound accusatory, or to disparage your riding. You look lovely and balanced, but this horse may have been used to a more experienced or accurate rider, and it can be tough for them to adjust from someone taking care of them, to them needing to take care of the rider a bit. I’m not your trainer and I don’t know your riding well at all, so I’ll refrain from any commentary regarding your trainer or his process, but I would encourage you to consider the poster above who advised getting a second opinion, even if just for a single lesson. I love having fresh eyes whenever I’m dealing with a tricky issue!

Last of all, try not to get discouraged, or hung up on a timeline. I have a number of students who came to me with what they thought were irreparable jumping issues (including two who would not even walk over a pole in hand!) who are now jumping happily and confidently, and the process wasn’t traumatic at all. Yes, it involved going back to basics and putting competitive goals on hold, but now they’re sitting on confident horses, knowing that when they make the inevitable mistake (which most of us do!) they have laid a solid enough foundation that they can carry on after without worry. Life is so much easier when the horse is happy and motivated to work for us.

[Fiesta01]

@Live_Wire

The mouth is the biggest concern for me, personally. He looks very offended. Does he grind his teeth at all? I would consider trying different bits and trying to sort some of that discomfort out. Out of curiousity, why are you using a curb? He was still busy in the Dee, but not quite as bad. I keep a loose ring in rotation, for him I might try a an eggbutt to offer some support as he seems so unconfident.

This.^

After ruling out other physical problems, this horse definitely looks like he is objecting to the bit and hands. He needs to build confidence in the rider’s hand with a gentle bit and a jump strap for the rider.

Does your trainer have any steady school horses to help you focus on independence of hand and seat? I always found gridwork exercises helpful in building rider confidence, also. No hands, arms out from shoulder; progressing to no stirrups. This should help when you’re on your own horse with a jump strap and a gentler bit.

He’s a very cute horse and a sensitive soul. He just needs patience and kindness.

ETA: I found mullen mouth snaffles help some very fussy horses. Also, French link loose ring snaffles.

[Jealoushe]

@glenburn

As Rodney used to say, if you can’t get your horse nice in the mouth, you can’t go to the jumps.

I love this!

[punchy]

I agree with others who say you don’t have enough impulsion, you’re heavy in his mouth, and you’re riding defensively. He’s lost confidence to the point of looking scared, that’s why he’s evading and refusing.

That’s all pretty obvious. So if you’re trainer cant see that, I’m not sure she can help you fix it. Time to have a heart to heart with her about her job and/or the suitability of this horse for you. (Whose idea was it to bit up?!) Being brutally honest here—saving feelings when a horse is devolving is no good for anybody—not you, the trainer, and most of all the horse. Act now, before he develops more severe body tension that turns chronic and not fixable and terror that takes years to undo—seen too much of that.

[Scribbler]

@punchy

I agree with others who say you don’t have enough impulsion, you’re heavy in his mouth, and you’re riding defensively. He’s lost confidence to the point of looking scared, that’s why he’s evading and refusing.

That’s all pretty obvious. So if you’re trainer cant see that, I’m not sure she can help you fix it. Time to have a heart to heart with her about her job and/or the suitability of this horse for you. (Whose idea was it to bit up?!) Being brutally honest here—saving feelings when a horse is devolving is no good for anybody—not you, the trainer, and most of all the horse. Act now, before he develops more severe body tension that turns chronic and not fixable and terror that takes years to undo—seen too much of that.

I agree that a curb seems an unusual choice for arena jumping a low level horse. Maybe cross country or fox hunting you want a pelham on a strong horse

But in general a curb makes a horse back off the bit, you don’t ride on true contact with a curb. And it multiplies any jiggle or grab by the rider. Curbs move with rein movement before you have full contact unlike snaffles. Also with a just curb you can’t do any snaffle rein aids, all your lateral has to be off the seat and leg. Fine in a finished California bridle gaucho horse. Not very useful in a jumper. It makes it harder to keep them straight

[Frivian]

This horse is in pain and he’s screaming it at you.

I agree that the confidence is an issue, but I think the root of the confidence is pain. The addition of the Kimberwicke bit has obviously made it worse (just rushing crossrails vs. stopping and running out) but I don’t think the mouth is the root cause. I would check his back, feet, hocks, and triple check saddle fit.

[Live_Wire]

@jcc813

I wouldn’t say I’m ever nervous in a fearful way in these lessons. The obstacles are so small I usually start out feeling confident that we can get over. If anything I probably have been taking it too much for granted and assuming he’s not going to balk when we’re just starting out over basically a speed bump. So when he does start stopping it’s more that I get flustered which he does probably read. I will say I don’t love doing those awkward jumps from a stop or when he speeds off after a jump but otherwise I’m not necessarily nervous to jump.

I agree, I don’t see you being fearful, but I can see your body language change and escalate. I’m not saying that in a way to pick at you, it’s just something to be mindful of.

i don’t know who’s idea the Kimberwick was, but I strongly disagree with the idea that this horse needs more leverage. I think he needs pushed forward into the hand and a steady connection at a steady pace. We are naturally inclined to pull instead of push, but you have to retrain your brain. It’s like riding a bike. It you slow down too much, you lose your balance.

I maintain that I think this horse is uncomfortable. I’m not sure he’s in excruciating pain - if he is, he is a very kind horse. I think a lot of us are quick to go down the rabbit hole of writing problem behaviors off as pain. IMO a lot of times its discomfort that we create unintentionally.

[Xctrygirl]

Ok here’s my take.

You bought the right horse at the wrong time. If you had had a more perceptive trainer you would have avoided this. And by “this” I mean that these types of ‘less ideal’ pairings can wear/deteriorate the confidence of both the horse and the rider.

You needed to buy this horse AFTER it had a slightly more solid rider that he/they moved from BN through Training. Then they decide they need a world beater WB and this guy would have had 4-5 seasons on him. He is generous to you in the trial rides compilation but you can see that he will be stopping in the not to distant future because you’re not strong/confident enough to tell him, “We’re going over this jump” and mean it and hold both of you to it.

I’ve been through a tangent of this type of deal and I got out of it with a concussion and a fractured wrist in the 12 month period of our ownership. And the horse died a year later. (Brain tumor) But I thought we were great and we were not. MANY better horses were out there, many better suited riders were out there, but we were together. And it was FAR LESS than ideal.

But the good news is that you have choices… you can commit to being better and change things up and try to improve. You can sell him and buy something else, or you can switch trainers and see how that goes. But overall you need to invoke change in things somewhere. Because status quo is not working for either of you.

This is NOT the end of the world… Eventing is about challenging your horse and yourself and seeing where you can get to. Now it’s up to you.

So ask yourself these things:

1. Do you look forward to riding this horse?
2. Are there goals you have that you imagine doing with or without it?
3. Do you get excited or nervous before any competition phases?
4. Do you want to do all the same things you dreamed of when you got this horse?

I’m a nameless schlub on the internet to you, but I promise MOST of us have been through this. And as such there are about a zillion ways to work through it.

But life isn’t that fun if you aren’t enjoying one of the most expensive hobbies in the world. So make sure you make choices that bring you more joy into life and less stress. That will help the most in the long run.

Good luck.

Emily

[glenburn]

My longtime friend/pro/rider who was rarely beatable in any division, was approached by a lady at Devon and she asked why his horses went so well (and why they are so expensive). I stepped back because I thought, this is going to be good. He said, for each horse I have here, I evaluated over two hundred horses that wouldn’t do. Some were in Europe, some at race tracks, some in fields as I drive to shows like this. Then it takes several years to develop that talent without ruining it.

[NaturallyHappy]

Great post!