Take it easy. Intellectual arguments-- that are well-done and considerate-- aren’t about domination.
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The western horses I rode all wore Garcia bits. Most had a Salinas port. Some were ridden in spade bits, but as a kid I didn’t ride those horses. Garcia’s were incredibly well made custom bits. https://capriolas.com/product-category/garcia-bits/
Here are the different mouthpieces. https://capriolas.com/bit-mouthpiece-options/ The bit shown up thread is not a spade, it’s a Salinas port.
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Yes, a Salinas half breed, but shown so people get the idea. Here is a true spade. Thought the half breed would cause a little less😱.
I’d love to find a nice Garcia Salinas half breed but $$$. Wish I’d had you experiences as a kid.
And yes, a half breed can be Signal or leverage where a true spade is only a signal bit.
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They really are beautifully made. They have always been expensive. Worth it though (of course I wasn’t buying at the time.) I did end up buying one new and sold it years later for more that I paid for it.
I rode one Arabian gelding that really enjoyed playing with the cricket in the line up. No anxiety, he just seemed to love the racket he could make with it.
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It looks like some kind of medieval torture device. I do not find it beautiful, not even in the way a black widow spider is beautiful.
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Hi, I haven’t kept up with this thread, I’m sorry! OH, I meant to say an upsloped pommel. It put you back at the cantle and behind your legs. I know different saddles are very different, but I’ve seen lots of poeple rid in western saddles and their legs aren’t so underneath them as you’d see in a well-fitting dressage saddle.
What do you think? I’m constantly learning about western saddles because I board with many Western riders and a Western trainer.
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I’ve ridden with Janet Foy and was never asked about the breed of my horse. Interesting.
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maybe she didn’t have to ask? Is s/he a typey example of his/her breed?
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It’s a shame you can’t appreciate it for what it is, the pinnacle of training for those who use them, only ever put on a completely finished horse, and just a wonderful kind of signal of the trust between horse and rider. The rider trusts the horse to never need anymore than a twitch on the reins, the horse trusts the rider to communicate softly and lightly.
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I never enjoyed 50 shades of grey …or any other S&M sort of movie/scenario. There are many other ways to express trust between horse and rider, most all of them would be preferable to my sensibilities.
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What a strange comparison!
I guess you do not wish to understand what you see, so easy to reject something because you don’t see the purpose
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You should understand that people have different experiences. Because you have never been exposed to Dressage or Bridle horses means you should first learn, then judge if you must.
The fact that you don’t groom your horses freaks me out a little, so…
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Not really, it’s an inverted pissing contest with ugly as hell devices that certainly could be used for torture. Being told something is beautiful does not make it so. Beautiful or not is an opinion thing.
Leverage not so much.
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In a wade saddle the stirrup (fenders) are set are set more underneath your seat. No, you do not have a cantle that locks you in or keeps your butt in place… but that’s the point… You find your own balance over your feet which is what any good dressage saddle should do. That’s why there are so many different Western saddles. Barrel, cutting, roping, ranching all are made for the discipline. Your position is adjusted depending on what you are doing with your horse. A wade saddle is traditionally a cowboy’s saddle meant to ranch in and ride in all day long. The cowboys butts would get awful sore if their legs were out in front of them all the time. In a way you’re over your feet so at any point you could just stand up.
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The straight-up-in-the-bridle I was allowed to ride once (with Supervision, capital-S) was owned by a gal who was very confident in his training. She was sure that whatever i did for half an hour, and with her giving me a lesson, wouldn’t undo anything or hurt him.
She also explained that individual horses often had one of these very expen$ive bits made for them and then only went in that bit* for their whole career**. I think these bits are really complicated pieces of equipment, I like to think of those objects as having a big vocabulary built into their shape and balance because they can create so many sensations for a horse when moved slightly. Try that in a snaffle! But I can see why a horse would have one bit that he learned to interpret. Of course, he (ideally) also had but one long-term rider whose balance and aids he learned as well. GP dressage horses are, of course, similar in this respect and the double bridle certainly increases the number of different sensations you and sent a horse to his head and mouth.
*-- It’s a normal part of Vaquero training to step back down from, say, the spade bit alone to the spade and bosalita, or even one step back to the hackamore should you find a hole in your horse’s training that you’d like to fix. I don’t know how many people decide to do any refinement in the spade bit alone as I’m not sure that bit alone can help a horse with any issue relating to bend. But a good horseman is encouraged to go back to a more basic stage if the horse needs it.
**–It takes a long time to make a bridle horse and accepting that is part of this kind of horse training. Rushing is discouraged. So the horse will be quite, quite educated before he’s straight up in the bridle. And he’ll be ridden “two handed,” as Maude explained-- with one set of reins to the bit and one to the fine rawhide bosal around his hose-- for some time. At first, the horse is merely asked to carry the spade bit and take his direction from the bosalita.
It could take you a decade to make your first bridle horse and maybe 7 years to make the next one, after you get better at it, I marvel at the investment these folks must put into their horses.
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My objection to that intricately made torture device is visceral. I do not wish to learn S&M.
I do see beauty in dressage and i do wish to learn.
Defensive paragraph: As for grooming…lol. My horses, all of them, are on pasture 24/7. We are a farm, what we do, we do here. Should i ever take one of them to show, i will groom to meet other people’s cleanliness standards. I am willing to do that. Here, on the farm…hahahaha, nope. They stand in the rain, they roll in the mud…they roll in the dirt … and they shine!! because their bodies are really healthy. When i brush a horse for a treat, s/he will go roll in dirt within a half hour to put the dirt back in (keeps flies from being able to bite them as easily…It’s an outdoorlife sort of thing)
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I’m not going to argue your point of view. I would have considered this a torture device once. Going down the rabbit hole I’ve learned how and when they are used. I have much admiration for the patience it takes to make a good bridle horse. As an aside, my horses live with me and they get dirty. If I’m not going to ride them they stay dirty. Their do get their feet picked. They get the best quality hay and and feed. They do not get grain but get a feed that’s beet pulp based. They are not out 24/7. They are out half day and in half day in a nicely straw bedded stall under fans.
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I suppose it’s all how you psychologically bend. I find no allure in learning ‘bridle’ horsemanship. Me, i’m adverse to ‘adversives’. The vast majority of my canine teammates use prong collars and e-collars. I train with no collar. And, all my mustangs get gentled R+ exclusively.
You doing you is fine by me. Just don’t expect me to see the beauty in that device.
