Why stall boarding rates need to at least double across the Midwest

[Gloria]

[QUOTE=bauhaus;8287767]
Yes I got that, however OP essentially is operating a backyard barn. She lives there as do her horses, I’d assume she qualified to buy it based on her off farm job she used to have. She is the one who changed the rules in this instance by quitting that job.

Gumtree lost me at her comment that no barn - anywhere - is making it charging $400-$500 a month. There is literally no way anyone could make that claim unless they’ve traveled the country doing audits of farm books from coast to coast.[/QUOTE]

No. OP isn’t operating a backyard barn. A backyard barn is someone like me, who has an operational farm for my own private horses, and take in one or two boarders to offset some cost. I have my own barn, arena, fence, etc, all of which are investment I would have made, boarders or not. I didn’t invest any of those infrastructure for boarding business. I invested those for my obsession for horses, not for profit. I don’t take in boarders, but if I do, I would be a backyard boarding farm.

OP is trying to operate a commercial farm on a shoestring budget. Her goal is turning in profit from boarding. Her whole life is consumed by this endeavor, and as part of that endeavor, she is forced to live in a small room in the barn. It is hardly a “backyard” farm.

And having operated my own little private farm, I can totally see $400~$500 boarding not turning into sustainable profit. Yes, it may turn into profit, but not profit to make a living out of it, and I am in an area where land is relatively inexpensive.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=gumtree;8287699]
This is the second, third time people have been saying speak to a “financial planner”, accountant. Well that’s all well and good if you happen to have/know either that are WELL versed in the business of horses. MOST are not. Most do not have a clue. In business school a “widget” is a widget by and large. Horses and the business of which includes their owners do not fall under the standard definition of a “widget”.

…

“In my mind, personal living space and boarding of personal horses should be kept separate. So if the whole property is considered “the business”, the person living there should be paying rent–that’s income for the business. And those personal horses should be paying board–that’s income for the business.”

No this is the wrong way to go about it. For the majority of small horse business owners Just about any accountant will tell you way. They don’t have to understand the horse business either. Business 101[/QUOTE]

Well, help us out. Why is keeping personal- and business expenses/losses obviously wrong for small horse business owners?

I’m one of those who knows that boarding isn’t like manufacturing widgets. But I can’t see how a basic business principal like this doesn’t apply unless you explain it from your specialized knowledge base.

[Wonders12]

[QUOTE=mvp;8286875]
I think boarding is collapsing in on itself… slowly…[/QUOTE]

A thumbs up isn’t enough for how much I agree with this.

[QUOTE=skyon;8287324]Serious question. If all board was raised to $1000 so the OP could make this the standard, where are all of the not–able-to show for xxx reasonss, only do x’s occasionally - or light dressage when sound, aged, not aged but nqr, retired horses supposed to go?

If horses can live 25 yrs + or minus, who is going to fund this at $1000 and more with vet bills care not even yet adding lessons, because more often than not as of late, I have seen people being sold this or with lease and at $550-$600 and over, with the other costs not yet added, not making it quite past the 2 yr mark.[/QUOTE]

Serious question. Is it the BOs responsibility to pay for the HOs horse? If it costs $1000 to feed the horse, provide the facilities, and pay the staff, shouldn’t the person who purchased that horse be responsible for paying enough to keep it?

One of the most frustrating conversations I have with boarders are when their horse needs stall rest or extra care, and they complain about/refuse to pay extra fees because “It’s not my fault Dobbin’s hock is hurting him.” Well, it’s not my fault either. You chose to buy Dobbin. Not me. Why am I expected to pay for his extra care when he gets hurt?

ETA: Before someone calls me a burnt out old nag, I don’t hate my job or my boarders for this. But the idea that someone else is supposed to pay for your pet/hobby seems so backwards to me.

Horses are expensive. If you choose to purchase a horse, you should be responsible for those expenses.

[QUOTE=kirbydog;8288087]… Shavings cost $1900 a semi load, every 10 days. People are good now, but in the past, had no problem helping themselves.
Hay varies here. It averages around $4.25-.75 stacked, but have a drought, or heavy rain year, it can go over $10 a bale. Again, people seem to think it’s their right to just help themselves to more.
We have heated aisles, heat and a/c in the tack rooms, and are well lit. Without constant patroling by our staff ($3000 a week for 5 very professional, knowledgeable people)doors are left open and lights are left on.
A horse colics and needs meds? Nobody will mind if I use the farms Banamine! After all, that’s what it’s there for, right???
Horses eat wood like it’s a part of their normal diet. Liability insurance is expensive. Fuel is expensive. We drag our arenas daily, at least. Tractors break. A lot.
Need I go on? [/QUOTE]

I think this is what the OP is referring to when (s)he says “because boarders demand it.” When interviewing potential boarders, I try to be very honest about how much bedding we use, and we have now added maximum amount of hay to the contract with a fee for additional hay. But I figure I still lose a couple bales per week in “oh, no one will miss one flake.”

Similarly, I went to sweat a horse the other day and was missing 6 bottles of stuff from the last time I used it a couple months ago.

Banamine, fly spray, lights left on… you have to give up at some point.

Those are the things that many of the “but I keep my horse at home for $X” posters don’t account for. That and the amount of time (aka labor) it takes to communicate with boarders. And the costs add up big time!

[SMF11]

A lot of boarders seem to think they know more than people who actually own and run boarding barns.

I suspect it’s a bit like parenting – you can’t really know what it is like until you’ve done it.

[Miss_Motivation]

The comments about finding competent business/professional help for establishing equestrian business budgets is a good one.

It’s a nichey business and we tend to think that it’s ‘special.’ Sometimes, though, I think we look for horsey expertise to help us justify our clinging to a losing business model… I know I have!

My situation was basically OK as long as I had a family member who had shared the horse dream with me all my life, and who could ‘float a loan’ if cash flow wasn’t sufficient to make an upgrade or do something needed for the barn.My enabling dreamer has now passed on, and reality is here.

I have a great spreadsheet that a very successful stable operator helped me with, and it shows, down to the penny, what I should make each month. And it quickly shows me what discounts, having my own horses, or making an unexpected upgrade or repair do to the bottom line.

Ah, if only life would pay attention to our business plans and spreadsheets!

But I still like to focus between the lines of that spreadsheet… to the joy I find (often, not always!) in helping other people pursue their horse dreams. And the sense of accomplishment I have in knowing we built a nice place, and that fact that it was the last, great adventure with my parent.

In hindsight, had I invested the energy and money put into my farm into other investments- mutual funds, normal real estate, the bank, etc- I would have built a lot more security for my family. The farm was ultimately a selfish pursuit… but I do love it most of the time and am proud of what we built together.

Current circumstances paint me a huge fool for doing all this… but when I can look back over my life, I don’t think I’ll ever regret the adventure of having a nice horse farm.

[bauhaus]

I did, actually, have a few boarders at a backyard barn for a few years. It was my parents’ property and the boarders were strictly there so my father could pretend it was a business and claim it as agricultural use on his taxes. He expected the boarders to pay for themselves and as much as possible of my personal horse bills. So yes, small scale backyard but I do know about ordering hay and shavings and grain and mowing and cleaning stalls and scheduling the vet and farrier and maintaining paddocks and dragging the arena and making sure the board checks covered what they were supposed to and that people actually paid their board and generally trying to keep everyone happy. I learned 2 things about running a boarding farm in the several years we had it before my father passed away:

1. In my market, I wouldn’t ever, in a thousand years think that boarding horses was a realistic way to make a living no matter how you scaled it up, unless I effectively started with a “free” property (like using my parents’) or a half million to a million dollars to get it off the ground, and even then it would likely be a very tight juggling act forever. It would take at least that much investment to have a facility that would compete for the limited number of boarders in this area able to pay enough in stall board to keep it full and running.

2. I love horses, but not enough to run a barn. So yeah, I get it that a lot of barn owners have to deal with self obsessed narcissistic boarders who have no idea how hard it is. I see it everywhere, I’m keenly aware of it.

Lots of people have given OP great advice on how to make her business plan work, and just as many others have pointed fingers at their own customers for not understanding how hard it is to do a job that most of them never likely thought about or wanted to do themselves. You’ve kind of got to accept that barn owner is a thankless, difficult job without much in the way of financial reward, and that you’re at the complete mercy of the economy and personal lives of your customers. It’s not a realistic full time job for most people.

[skyon]

@Wonders12;8288280

Horses are expensive. If you choose to purchase a horse, you should be responsible for those expenses.

Yes, I understand that. However expensive is relative to what you do and where you are located and OP titled the thread that stall boarding rates need to Double across the midwest.

After opening then it is noted the board is $500 (for what I think is a heated city barn - right there, what city is this? Because a heated barn or really any barn is not likely charging $500 near me or near most cities. Maybe 50+ miles and more out.

Then the OP notes their boarders are essentially getting free board.

Huh? No, they are writing a check every month according to what you chose to charge - are you purchasing the monthly grain, shavings for free? No, you are cashing their check.

And yes BOs are not responsible for someone buying a horse, but over all it is a horse business and all the selling, training and showing is often connected with the board as is many already describing for their own barn. I’m not certain a the OP is not selling as well.

Selling is promoted heavilly in the horse business and the board, care often is made to sound simple just to get that sale. That often happens at the same barn charging board.

I totally can foresee a time when board goes past $1000, especially if weather produces any long term drought in the midwest - it’s a pretty spoiled area in that regard.

Again, though, I think it’s an easy out to just use a blanket term of expensive and therefore it’s OK to double anything. Yeah, you can double it, but there will also be a consequence, and I would have no problem being hard nosed about it if it was my retirment versus someone paying board.

However the horses were expensive to begin, you cashed the check - so I would not begrudge someone who has to figure out what to do with the animal since they no longer can afford it.

[froglander]

A friend of mine in Washington state has had a boarding facility going on close to 20 years now. Her husband (and son now that he is older) do a lot of the maintenance. They have a covered arena, outdoor arena, and an obstacle course. They have added outbuildings, and improved things over the course of time. Her husband does have his own business outside the farm as well for supplemental income, but at this point I believe it pretty much carries itself.

I don’t believe she expects income from boarding to cover everything. She teaches lessons, she has summer camps, she holds clinics, she does barn shows, she sells a horse here and there.

They have 17 acres and they bale their own grass hay. Grain is not included in the price of board, but is fed if the owner provides it. They also feed alfalfa that they get by the semi-load.

Board there is $350 and from the pictures I see on Facebook (sucks to be on the opposite corner of the country sometimes!), they seem to be thriving.

I remember reading a book-“Starting and Running Your Own Horse Business” (I think there is at least a second edition out now) and clearly remember it saying that you aren’t going to make money if all you do is board, you have to find other services to provide (lessons, training, sales, supplies, etc).

This has been an interesting thread to follow!

[HorseCzar]

Again, I am talking about the industry standard. And how that has been accepted. I am NOT referring to my own personal barn although I have the same issues.

Also paying for the business loan and definitely not profit. If that were the case there would be no such thing as any other business in existence.

As for the people that say I am able to keep my horse for X dollars per month, that makes me think of the people with the bumper stickers that say my child is an honor roll student.

All I am wanting is for horse Owner to actually pay for the cost of there own horse while allowing the horse caretakers to live a relatively decent quality of life for the endless and hard hours they put in every day.

[RTF]

I get it. I have a farm, and if my horses were stall kept, I would loose money every month. When you add all of the actual costs, it is tough to make money. I board, but at what people are willing to pay, I don’t know how you can profit by just boarding. I knew a local trainer that re figured the prices to charge and lost a lot of clients. The trainer had no choice, it was a money pit at what she was making. I really do not think the average boarder looks at more than hay, feed, bedding. Just my insurance for running my place eats up one months profit. It’s a tough business, unless you have top clients willing to pay for quality care.

[BuddyRoo]

[QUOTE=Miss Motivation;8288288]
The comments about finding competent business/professional help for establishing equestrian business budgets is a good one.

It’s a nichey business and we tend to think that it’s ‘special.’ Sometimes, though, I think we look for horsey expertise to help us justify our clinging to a losing business model… I know I have!
.[/QUOTE]

I think you kind of nailed it. It’s easy to get emotionally invested. It’s easy to make excuses for why a horse business is so different from a widget business. But in reality, it’s not.

When I was the interim farm manager for a place in VA recently, the owner wanted this and that and just turned a blind eye to the realities of the market. It wasn’t a boarding barn. But it was a farm and it needed to get in the black and out of the red. I made a load of suggestions that she pretty much across the board said no to. Now the property is up for sale. I’m not sure I could’ve dug her out but her complete unwillingness to treat it as a business didn’t help.

We could’ve done okay if she would’ve stopped treating her four personal high needs horses as part of the business. It took a lot of man hours, a lot of money and no profit. Right there, we were looking at thousands a month.

I think the bottom line is that you either A) run it as a business or B) run it as a hobby. If you want to do the former, it’s never going to be a bad idea to make sure you’re working a plan.

[BuddyRoo]

It’s weird that your posts don’t always show up as the OP in red. Anyway…

[QUOTE=HorseCzar;8288533]

All I am wanting is for horse Owner to actually pay for the cost of there own horse while allowing the horse caretakers to live a relatively decent quality of life for the endless and hard hours they put in every day.[/QUOTE]

You’re being silly. YOU are the owner of the facility and know what your costs are. CHARGE what you think is reasonable.

No one is trying to screw you out of a living. But when they call to inquire about the cost of boarding at your facility and you say it’s X, that’s all the further they think of it.

If you need to charge 1k/mo to make it work, charge that. And good luck. Chances are, you’ll have few takers. Maybe boarding as a business isn’t for you/your situation. But stop saying that this is a boarder problem.

I board. You know what I want? Clean water. Good hay. Safe pastures. Clean facilities. Tell me what it costs you to do that and I will pay. And if I can’t afford your place, I’ll go elsewhere. I don’t expect you to do it for free. I am not trying to take advantage of anyone. But if you say you can do X, Y and Z for 500/mo, then I do expect that. I write my check keeping up my side, you do yours. If that’s not enough, it’s up to you to tell me what you need.

I truly appreciate good care. I do. That’s one reason that it seems I pay more for field board than most on this thread have mentioned as a cost of stall board. I want good care. And I’ll pay for it. But I’m not psychic and don’t know what your bills are. And if you are mismanaging things and 5 other barns in town offer similar or better for less, well…I might go there.

You make it sound like boarders know nothing of horses and are trying to take advantage of you. Stop. Just charge what you need to charge.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=skyon;8288443]

Again, though, I think it’s an easy out to just use a blanket term of expensive and therefore it’s OK to double anything. Yeah, you can double it, but there will also be a consequence, and I would have no problem being hard nosed about it if it was my retirment versus someone paying board.[/QUOTE]

Of course folks would flip out and ask “What for?!?” if a BO doubled board rates. But IME, horse board never has that built-in cost-of-living raises that go with rents. I have rented as long as I have boarded horses, and kept both sides of my life pretty comparable in terms of the quality of housing for me or my horses. I think rents have increased by about 60% over, say, 20 years. Horse board really has not kept pace. It has increased by, perhaps, 15%.

Perhaps BOs need to write into their leases the same thing landlords do: Something about possible annual cost-of-living increases. And look at it this way: Board would not have to be doubled now if it had been increased by some modest amount like 3%.

And I won’t even open that can of worms about freezing board rates such that boarders who arrived at different times are paying different rates for the same materials and services. That’s just bad economically and politically all the way around. I can’t believe it’s A Thing in this industry.

[Obsidian_Fire]

When so many people this day and age don’t even know where their food comes from (you mean milk comes from a COW? EWWW!), why do we expect them to understand what it really costs to keep a horse? Let alone property…and upkeep.

I grew up on a farm, I worked my ass off. I worked at a boarding barn, I worked my ass off. The labor part, I get.

The financial part? I get that too, but only because I’ve been a self-care person my entire life AND because I’ve made a point of asking about other costs involved (such as shavings).
Most people don’t do this.
PLUS, money seems to be the “big evil” when having honest conversations.

I get that nobody wants to “justify” what they charge to the penny, and even if they did, someone would still argue over it. But maybe we need to.

20+ years ago, I had a friend who owned property and took on a handful of boarders. She ran it as a co-op. It worked great. Everybody took their turn doing chores and chipping in at work parties (like spreading new footing in the arena). I’d love to find another situation like that.

[LarkspurCO]

If I am understanding correctly, you’d like to raise stall board for 16 stalls from $500 to $1,000. You are currently breaking even with the $500 board, so this increase would net you an additional $8,000 per month ($96,000 per year) income in addition to what you are currently netting with the outside boarders.

I can’t blame you for wanting it, but I don’t know how realistic that is in your market.

I’m just glad I decided to buy my own property 17 years ago so I can provide retirement and turnout for my gimps and cripples. I wouldn’t want to board horses either (been there, hated that).

[TWH_Girl]

Agree with BuddyRoo’s last post #230.

Totally ??? on OP’s post #227 about comparing what boarders want to pay to honor roll bumper stickers…okay.

There are some really awesome BOs out there who are priced reasonably, truly love the horses, and do a great job- like my BO, who I am very grateful for! There are some who don’t, and some in between. There are boarders/HO who are very involved and take great care of their horses, pay on time, clean up, and are respectful of things such as turning lights off, etc. And some who don’t.

Owning horses isn’t cheap, and no one seems to get ‘rich’ off boarding. I guess if you don’t make a decent living at it and raising board would drive clients away, then it’s time to get out and move on…every place I’ve boarded at, the BO has a NICE truck(s), a huge trailer, lots of toys that are not farm-work related (snowmobiles, boats, atvs) and seem to do quite well- even at $245 or stall board and under $200 for pasture board. They must be doing okay, or up to their wazoo in credit card bills…my toys are my horses and that’s all we have.

My short point is don’t board horses if you don’t like it anymore or cannot afford it. Raise board if you need to but the market will determine what’s acceptable in your area.

[Casey09]

[QUOTE=Wonders12;8288280]
A thumbs up isn’t enough for how much I agree with this.

Serious question. Is it the BOs responsibility to pay for the HOs horse? If it costs $1000 to feed the horse, provide the facilities, and pay the staff, shouldn’t the person who purchased that horse be responsible for paying enough to keep it?

One of the most frustrating conversations I have with boarders are when their horse needs stall rest or extra care, and they complain about/refuse to pay extra fees because “It’s not my fault Dobbin’s hock is hurting him.” Well, it’s not my fault either. You chose to buy Dobbin. Not me. Why am I expected to pay for his extra care when he gets hurt?

ETA: Before someone calls me a burnt out old nag, I don’t hate my job or my boarders for this. But the idea that someone else is supposed to pay for your pet/hobby seems so backwards to me.

Horses are expensive. If you choose to purchase a horse, you should be responsible for those expenses.

I think this is what the OP is referring to when (s)he says “because boarders demand it.” When interviewing potential boarders, I try to be very honest about how much bedding we use, and we have now added maximum amount of hay to the contract with a fee for additional hay. But I figure I still lose a couple bales per week in “oh, no one will miss one flake.”

Similarly, I went to sweat a horse the other day and was missing 6 bottles of stuff from the last time I used it a couple months ago.

Banamine, fly spray, lights left on… you have to give up at some point.

Those are the things that many of the “but I keep my horse at home for $X” posters don’t account for. That and the amount of time (aka labor) it takes to communicate with boarders. And the costs add up big time![/QUOTE]

I would never suggest that it is a barn owner’s responsibility to charge or not charge an amount based on what I can afford. I don’t need a horse and I am responsible for my animals. I fully understand that if they are injured and need extra care, it is one of those things that comes along with owning an animal and I am responsible for meeting those needs, sometimes for paying extra for stall rest and sometimes by putting in my own time to medicate, etc.
At the same time, I don’t think that there is anything wrong with boarders shopping for the best value for themselves and choosing the barn that best fits their needs. I don’t think that boarders don’t pay more because they don’t understand the costs - I think it is because boarding barns determine the market rate for an area. If a person can board a horse for $500 a month or $1000 a month, most will choose the lower cost option if they aren’t getting something immensely better for double the cost. There isn’t anything stopping the OP from raising her rates, other than that apparently the OP thinks, probably correctly, that her customers won’t stay because she won’t be competitive with other boarding barns in her area.

[kirbydog]

I think the bottom line is that you either A) run it as a business or B) run it as a hobby. If you want to do the former, it’s never going to be a bad idea to make sure you’re working a plan.[/QUOTE]

If you run it as a business, you’d better eventually show a profit, or the IRS will come knocking

[kirbydog]

I think the bottom line is that you either A) run it as a business or B) run it as a hobby. If you want to do the former, it’s never going to be a bad idea to make sure you’re working a plan.[/QUOTE]

If you run it as a business, you’d better eventually show a profit, or the IRS will come knocking

[airhorse]

So, two similar facilities, both 50 stalls. One is family owned, paid for and just enjoys making a small profit off of boarding. The other has a 3 million dollar mortgage.

This is where the business will fail. When those owned farms sell, the dynamics will change and boarding will double overnight.