Why stall boarding rates need to at least double across the Midwest

[Lord_Helpus]

[QUOTE=HorseCzar;8282090]
This has been some absolutely great discussions. I wish I could reply to each one, but everyone has said some excellent replies.

I do have a proposal and would be curious as to what people thought.

A breakdown such as this: charge $350/month for the stall. Then charge per bag for shavings ($5) then a bale of hay ($7), then charge a fee of $25 a day for administering feed, cleaning stalls, and daily turnout and brining back in. Offer the opportunity for self service, (they would just pay $25 the days they couldn’t do self service). Perhaps have an annual maintenence fee of $250 for general maintenence, (similar to a gym membership).

Would that be so unreasonable?[/QUOTE]

1. $7 per bale of hay? hahahahahaha $500/ ton (which is the better way to look at it since bales differ in size from 40 - 70 pounds. The average bale I get is 50 lbs, so I get 20 bales/ton). Each horse eats 22-25lbs/day = 1/2 a bale a day = 40 days per ton. From October - April (no grass) = 183 days is, ummmm, over 4 tons per winter per horse. That is $2000 in hay in 6 months. Cut that in 1/2 for the other 6 months and that = $1000 in hay, = $3000 per year per horse JUST for hay.

Well, you say, in the summer months horses can eat grass when they are out. Sure they can. Field maintenance (fertilizing, overseeding, weed control) costs $250/acre per year. 20 acres = $5,000 a year in field maintenance. Any less and your fields are of such poor quality that your hay costs go up. Add in the cost of mowing and fence replacement, say $300 a year/acre.

And this is JUST forage. No including any of the other costs in boarding a horse.

And you think that a barn should allow you to do self care? (I am sorry, but people who do self care do not (and have no reason to, because it is not their property) keep the improvements/pastures up to a standard which maintains the value of the property.

And what if you choose to have a drink after work with friends, so you do not come out to take care of your horse until 7pm? Do you care if your horse runs the fence line, whinnying and gets lathered and hysterical because the horses all around him have been fed and put away for the night while he stands there unfed, unblanketed and with no water? I care, because I am there to watch him, while you are doing something else.

What is this thing you say about paying $25/day if you do not choose to do self care on any given day? WHO is supposed to do this care that you so blithely choose not to do whenever you choose not to do it? Is the BO supposed to take on your job, when he/she is already working 12/14 hours a day? What if 5 self care people chose to have a ‘real life’ on the same day? Is the BO expected to have employees sitting around on the off chance that they will be needed to do this extra work? Perhaps the BO can go down to the unemployment office and find day laborers who will fill in for you when you give 12 hours notice that you choose not to come out the next day?

I am sorry to say that the world does not revolve around your whim. You either pay for the whole 9 yards or you are as responsible for your horse as I am for all the full time boarders’ horses. You cannot have it both ways.

$250/year for maintenance? I cannot even fully address the folly of this comment. What do you think it costs to maintain a barn, equipment, fields, access roads, fencing? I guarantee that you would not want to keep your horse in the slum called a boarding barn if each person only paid $250/year. If you meant to say $250/month, that is closer to reality.

I wonder if boarders have a clue what fencing costs. Try $8/board foot. For a 3 board fence. The last time I put in new fencing, I paid $25,000 to fence 2 fields. THAT is what your horse is destroying when he eats the fence, or pushes posts over because he rubs his butt on the fence because his sheath needs cleaning.

Whoever is responsible for your horse 24/7 probably does not make minimum wage. It is a full time job. While you are off in Hawaii on vacation, if your horse gets hurt/colics guess who is calling the vet, staying up with your horse, taking him to the vet hospital in the middle of the night? Who soaks a foot 2/day for an abscess? Who does gross wound care which involves blood and puss?

Who is on call 24/7/365 (including Christmas day) in case one of these things happen? Who does barn check in the freezing cold at 9pm every single night of the year? And WHO cares enough to want to take responsibilty for your pookie? NOT the owner who leaves at 4pm and then goes out in the evening with family/friends not giving a thought to how their horse is doing in the hours between 4pm - 10 am when she wants to come ride.

Boarders generally have no clue of the hours, worry, care that the BO or BM put in. They think that paying for shavings and hay and feed is all that goes into keeping a horse. No. Just no. Try it some time, and see just how easy it is to board other peoples’ horses.

I boarded horses for 4 years. I charged $650/ month. After 4 years I stopped boarding and asked my clients (friends and really nice people) to find another place because I was going out of the boarding biz. What would it have taken to keep me boarding other peoples’ horses? You could not pay me enough to do it again. I want to have a life, too; just like my boarders have.

A lot of what goes into boarding horses has nothing to do with hours worked or costs per horse to feed it, maintain the farm and do the daily, ordinary things that keeping a horse requires. The price of losing the ability to go where you want, when you want is something that you cannot put a dollar value on.

My hat goes off to those who take on this responsibility. I choose not to devote my worry, angst and nights to taking care of other peoples’ horses. The incalculable concept of freedom to leave the farm, for a night or a week, whenever you want, to not lose sleep over other peoples’ horses, to not have to watch while other people do a partial job taking care of their own horses, THAT is worth a lot. You cannot pay for someone else’s peace of mind.

[Lord_Helpus]

[QUOTE=Casey09;8291088]
I would never suggest that it is a barn owner’s responsibility to charge or not charge an amount based on what I can afford. I don’t need a horse and I am responsible for my animals. I fully understand that if they are injured and need extra care, it is one of those things that comes along with owning an animal and I am responsible for meeting those needs, sometimes for paying extra for stall rest and sometimes by putting in my own time to medicate, etc.
At the same time, I don’t think that there is anything wrong with boarders shopping for the best value for themselves and choosing the barn that best fits their needs. I don’t think that boarders don’t pay more because they don’t understand the costs - I think it is because boarding barns determine the market rate for an area. If a person can board a horse for $500 a month or $1000 a month, most will choose the lower cost option if they aren’t getting something immensely better for double the cost. There isn’t anything stopping the OP from raising her rates, other than that apparently the OP thinks, probably correctly, that her customers won’t stay because she won’t be competitive with other boarding barns in her area.[/QUOTE]

Define “best value”? Cheapest? Even if it has the oldest barn? smallest stalls? shitty pastures? fences that will blow over in a stiff breeze? Small (or no) riding ring with bad footing? Poor quality hay?

Yes, you may get “value” at Barn A and only pay 1/2 of what Barn B is charging. If cost is your top priority, then by all means, board at the cheaper barn. But if a better facility with better rings and better fencing with knowledgable horsepeople in charge of your horse are what is important, then Barn B is the better value, even at twice the price.

Sadly, many people judge value strictly by price.

Believe it or not, BO’s do not set the prices. The land value, facility value, quality of feed and amount of bedding and demand for riding facilities do.

Why do you think that small private barns in Westchester, NY can charge $2000/month for boarding? Because individual BO’s have arbitrarily set prices that high regardless of the facility and amenities? If so, they will have no boarders and no income and a facility sitting empty while the landowner pays $10,000/month in mortage and property taxes. ow that is a really stupid business plan.

You get what you pay for.

A friend moved to NC from Westchester County. When she found out that property taxes were $10,000 a year, she started laughing. Evidently she was paying well over $100,000 for property taxes where she came from. She could not possibly afford to charge $500/month while paying 10x the amount in property taxes (and that is just 1 item she had to pay for).

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=BuddyRoo;8287456]
After reading the follow up posts and other comments, it seems like there’s a disconnect.

In my mind, personal living space and boarding of personal horses should be kept separate. So if the whole property is considered “the business”, the person living there should be paying rent–that’s income for the business. And those personal horses should be paying board–that’s income for the business.

Bottom line, there aren’t very many communities other than those near major metro areas that I’m aware of that are likely to keep a barn full at 1k/mo offering nothing but boarding. And there are barns doing quite well in the 400-[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=mvp;8288169]Well, help us out. Why is keeping personal- and business expenses/losses obviously wrong for small horse business owners?

I’m one of those who knows that boarding isn’t like manufacturing widgets. But I can’t see how a basic business principal like this doesn’t apply unless you explain it from your specialized knowledge base.[/QUOTE]

How the business is set up depends on a number of things. A tax accountant/attorney should be consulted on the best way to structure it.

All things being equal most people separate “themselves” from the business. Generally the business is set up as an LLC. An LLC “enjoys” a lot the same privileges and “protections” that an incorporated business does. But they are a lot easier and inexpensive to set up. There are great tax advantages to be had and a lot less “book keeping”. I believe all states allow/recognize LLC now. It’s a wonderful thing.

Once the business is set up as an LLC. The owner of the property rents/leases the property and horse infrastructure to the LLC. Excluding their personal residence and a certain amount of property around it as defined in the lease. Again how this is defined needs to be discussed with a tax attorney, accountant.
Doing this way protects the property owner from any potential business liabilities against the owner’s personal residence and the entire property. The business does not own the property. Vendors, law suites etc. cannot attach, place a lien on the property. They can only go after the LLC’s assets. Which in most cases may not be much.

It also separates the business owner’s person expenses separate from the business. And protects the owner’s assets, because all of the “infrastructure” is being leased to the business. All improvements and up keep are the responsibility of the business.

When someone leases a commercial property such as a restaurant in almost all cases it is called a “triple net lease”. Basically meaning the lessee pays for EVERYTHING, all improvement are paid for by the lessee but are not owned by the lessee. If the lessee installs new A/C and goes out of business and or terminates the lease. The new A/C remains with the property.

Another “bonus” from the tax side of things is the fact rental income in not taxed like “ordinary income”.

If the business is doing well the lease payments may be able to cover the cost of the mortgage. But how it is structure for tax purposes should be thoroughly discussed with a tax attorney, accountant. The owner’s mortgage interest rate deduction maybe effected. Along with how the property’s capital gains are handled when the property is sold. Depreciation schedules etc.

All of our horses are owned by our LLC. My horse business is my sole business. Those that have other sources of income, jobs have to be careful not to run afoul of the “hobby” tax laws.

When I say I am in the horse business a lot of people say, “a lot of great right offs”. Contrary to popular believe “writing something off” does not get you a “refund” check from the government. Like getting an income tax refund for over payment personal income tax. If you don’t have the income to “write off” against they are of little value. But you can carry the “lose” forward so when the “big horse” sells you can reduce your tax liabilities. They would be of more value to me if I could “sell” my write offs to someone with a high income.

Another tax benefit of owning one’s own business is pay structure. As president I discuss with myself what I will pay myself. From a tax stand point I would keep my “ordinary income” low and be paid a big bonus at the end of the year from vast amounts of money I make from my clients and horses. Most “bonus” pay is tax a flat 25% up to a certain level. One of these years I might be able to take advantage of this. Hope springs eternal

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=BuddyRoo;8287456]
After reading the follow up posts and other comments, it seems like there’s a disconnect.

If you are going to have a business–not a hobby, but a business–there needs to be a business plan. In the case of the OP, it sounds like the business plan has to be re-engineered at this point with an eye towards actual costs and ways to reduce them.

A qualified financial planner/accountant would be a good resource as would some of the templates available online through the SBA or other similar small business orgs.

In my mind, personal living space and boarding of personal horses should be kept separate. So if the whole property is considered “the business”, the person living there should be paying rent–that’s income for the business. And those personal horses should be paying board–that’s income for the business.

Those personal expenses should not be simply absorbed into cost of doing business.

During the course of engineering a new business plan, learning more about the market in the area is imperative. Let’s pretend that 1k/mo is what the OP determines she actually needs to charge in order to cover the costs of doing business (including a salary for her). If that’s the case but other facilities are doing quite well at $400 mo with more amenities and nicer facilities, then the OP is screwed. There’s no market for her. Trying to limp along while going into the hole is not wise. Downsizing to just her own horses and getting a full time job might make a lot more sense.

Bottom line, there aren’t very many communities other than those near major metro areas that I’m aware of that are likely to keep a barn full at 1k/mo offering nothing but boarding. And there are barns doing quite well in the 400-600/mo range but they aren’t offering just boarding. They are offering training and lessons. They host shows. They have an active group of boarders–typically with a requirement of taking X number of lessons per month.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8291429]1. $7 per bale of hay? hahahahahaha $500/ ton (which is the better way to look at it since bales differ in size from 40 - 70 pounds. The average bale I get is 50 lbs, so I get 20 bales/ton). Each horse eats 22-25lbs/day = 1/2 a bale a day = 40 days per ton. From October - April (no grass) = 183 days is, ummmm, over 4 tons per winter per horse. That is $2000 in hay in 6 months. Cut that in 1/2 for the other 6 months and that = $1000 in hay, = $3000 per year per horse JUST for hay.

Well, you say, in the summer months horses can eat grass when they are out. Sure they can. Field maintenance (fertilizing, overseeding, weed control) costs $250/acre per year. 20 acres = $5,000 a year in field maintenance. Any less and your fields are of such poor quality that your hay costs go up. Add in the cost of mowing and fence replacement, say $300 a year/acre.

And this is JUST forage. No including any of the other costs in boarding a horse.

And you think that a barn should allow you to do self care? (I am sorry, but people who do self care do not (and have no reason to, because it is not their property) keep the improvements/pastures up to a standard which maintains the value of the property.

And what if you choose to have a drink after work with friends, so you do not come out to take care of your horse until 7pm? Do you care if your horse runs the fence line, whinnying and gets lathered and hysterical because the horses all around him have been fed and put away for the night while he stands there unfed, unblanketed and with no water? I care, because I am there to watch him, while you are doing something else.

What is this thing you say about paying $25/day if you do not choose to do self care on any given day? WHO is supposed to do this care that you so blithely choose not to do whenever you choose not to do it? Is the BO supposed to take on your job, when he/she is already working 12/14 hours a day? What if 5 self care people chose to have a ‘real life’ on the same day? Is the BO expected to have employees sitting around on the off chance that they will be needed to do this extra work? Perhaps the BO can go down to the unemployment office and find day laborers who will fill in for you when you give 12 hours notice that you choose not to come out the next day?

I am sorry to say that the world does not revolve around your whim. You either pay for the whole 9 yards or you are as responsible for your horse as I am for all the full time boarders’ horses. You cannot have it both ways.

$250/year for maintenance? I cannot even fully address the folly of this comment. What do you think it costs to maintain a barn, equipment, fields, access roads, fencing? I guarantee that you would not want to keep your horse in the slum called a boarding barn if each person only paid $250/year. If you meant to say $250/month, that is closer to reality.

I wonder if boarders have a clue what fencing costs. Try $8/board foot. For a 3 board fence. The last time I put in new fencing, I paid $25,000 to fence 2 fields. THAT is what your horse is destroying when he eats the fence, or pushes posts over because he rubs his butt on the fence because his sheath needs cleaning.

Whoever is responsible for your horse 24/7 probably does not make minimum wage. It is a full time job. While you are off in Hawaii on vacation, if your horse gets hurt/colics guess who is calling the vet, staying up with your horse, taking him to the vet hospital in the middle of the night? Who soaks a foot 2/day for an abscess? Who does gross wound care which involves blood and puss?

Who is on call 24/7/365 (including Christmas day) in case one of these things happen? Who does barn check in the freezing cold at 9pm every single night of the year? And WHO cares enough to want to take responsibilty for your pookie? NOT the owner who leaves at 4pm and then goes out in the evening with family/friends not giving a thought to how their horse is doing in the hours between 4pm - 10 am when she wants to come ride.

Boarders generally have no clue of the hours, worry, care that the BO or BM put in. They think that paying for shavings and hay and feed is all that goes into keeping a horse. No. Just no. Try it some time, and see just how easy it is to board other peoples’ horses.

I boarded horses for 4 years. I charged $650/ month. After 4 years I stopped boarding and asked my clients (friends and really nice people) to find another place because I was going out of the boarding biz. What would it have taken to keep me boarding other peoples’ horses? You could not pay me enough to do it again. I want to have a life, too; just like my boarders have.

A lot of what goes into boarding horses has nothing to do with hours worked or costs per horse to feed it, maintain the farm and do the daily, ordinary things that keeping a horse requires. The price of losing the ability to go where you want, when you want is something that you cannot put a dollar value on.

My hat goes off to those who take on this responsibility. I choose not to devote my worry, angst and nights to taking care of other peoples’ horses. The incalculable concept of freedom to leave the farm, for a night or a week, whenever you want, to not lose sleep over other peoples’ horses, to not have to watch while other people do a partial job taking care of their own horses, THAT is worth a lot. You cannot pay for someone else’s peace of mind.[/QUOTE]

Excellent post!

I quote this in one of my comments;

“Also 80hrs a week is a crock unless you are actually the slowest stall cleaner in the world or have no system to accomplish any task whatsoever.”

My response;

How many barns have you worked in run or owned? If so for how many years? It is EASY to put in 80+ hrs a week running a farm. It is more like the norm than the exception. I am not talking just mucking stalls. I won’t waste my time going into this.

Thanks for taking the time to go into far more detail.

Not to be snarky but to me it is easy to see who has “done the walk” and who are mainly “doing the talk”. No disrespect to anyone who has commented intended.

[Casey09]

[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8291486]
Define “best value”? Cheapest? Even if it has the oldest barn? smallest stalls? shitty pastures? fences that will blow over in a stiff breeze? Small (or no) riding ring with bad footing? Poor quality hay?

Yes, you may get “value” at Barn A and only pay 1/2 of what Barn B is charging. If cost is your top priority, then by all means, board at the cheaper barn. But if a better facility with better rings and better fencing with knowledgable horsepeople in charge of your horse are what is important, then Barn B is the better value, even at twice the price.

Sadly, many people judge value strictly by price.

Believe it or not, BO’s do not set the prices. The land value, facility value, quality of feed and amount of bedding and demand for riding facilities do.

Why do you think that small private barns in Westchester, NY can charge $2000/month for boarding? Because individual BO’s have arbitrarily set prices that high regardless of the facility and amenities? If so, they will have no boarders and no income and a facility sitting empty while the landowner pays $10,000/month in mortage and property taxes. ow that is a really stupid business plan.

You get what you pay for.

A friend moved to NC from Westchester County. When she found out that property taxes were $10,000 a year, she started laughing. Evidently she was paying well over $100,000 for property taxes where she came from. She could not possibly afford to charge $500/month while paying 10x the amount in property taxes (and that is just 1 item she had to pay for).[/QUOTE]

If one barn is much better than another, of course that barn will charge more. That is why I stated that unless one barn is offering something much better I also fully understand that boarding rates across the country vary because the cost of land, hay, etc. varies by location. The best barn will also vary based on the customer’'s priorities. I could pay less for board if I boarded in a different area. That isn’t a convenient area for me to go, and so I don’t board there. I do not board at the cheapest place available, but there is a local place that is more expensive. I don’t board there because the turnout is much more limited, and I don’t ride everyday. I also can’t justify the expense when I am happy where I am. I live in the Midwest and if a wonderful barn opened up and charged $1000 per month, I don’t think I would investigate it because in my area, there are good options for much less. A facility might be justified in that pricing, and I’m not saying they wouldn’t be.
However, here is my understanding of the OP. She is saying that board needs to double everywhere. She isn’t saying that she has a much better facility or care than other competing barns. My guess is her current rates are competitive with other area barns. Hence, if she doubled her rates, she would lose boarders because her comparable competitors would be charging half. I never said that prices were arbitrary, but a business has to consider both fixed expenses AND the cost the market will bear considering competition.

[gumtree]

A number of the well-meaning comments, suggestions remind me of the Rodney Dangerfield move Back to School and the scene with the business professor Dr. Phillip Barbay who lecturing about setting up a business/factor “by the book”.

When finished, Dangerfield (Thornton Mellon) chimes in.

Dr. Barbay dismisses his impute by saying; “now, notwithstanding Mr. Mellon’s input. The next question for us is where to build our factory?”

Mellon under his breath says “how 'bout fantasyland?”

Thornton Melon: “Oh, you left out a bunch of stuff.”

Dr. Phillip Barbay: “Oh really? Like what for instance”

Thornton Mellon; First of all you’re going to have to grease the local politicians for the sudden zoning problems that always come up. Then there’s the kickbacks to the carpenters, and if you plan on using any cement in this building I’m sure the teamsters would like to have a little chat with ya, and that’ll cost ya. Oh and don’t forget a little something for the building inspectors. Then there’s long term costs such as waste disposal. I don’t know if you’re familiar with who runs that business but I assure you it’s not the boyscouts.

Dr. Barbay; "That will be quite enough, Mr. Melon! Maybe bribes, kickbacks and Mafia payoffs are how YOU do business! But they are NOT part of the legitimate business world! And they are certainly not part of anything I am doing in this class. Do I make myself clear, Mr. Melon!

[bauhaus]

Horse owners are just too varied to make the assumption that the “better” expensive barn is the best one for their horse. If your needs are simple and your horse thrives on basic feed and hay, you’re likely not motivated to choose the fanciest barn. If you show, sure you need to be able to ride 5 or more days a week which usually means a nice arena in most climates. That’s only true for a small number of owners though and even among those owners, lots of them are fine roughing it at a cheaper home barn with smaller stalls and bare minimum arena with footing they maybe have to keep an eye on for the sake of actually having more money to show or trailer out for lessons and clinics.

It’s called a shoestring budget and I don’t think it’s fair to judge people for making do on one, because without those folks the horse industry really would collapse I think. For every horse owned by a very wealthy person spending gobs of money on shows, training, at tack shops, feed stores and on vet and farrier care there are 10 more owned by people who have tight budgets who also need shots and feed and lessons. The best value is different for every owner and every horse.

[skyon]

[QUOTE=airhorse;8291191]
So, two similar facilities, both 50 stalls. One is family owned, paid for and just enjoys making a small profit off of boarding. The other has a 3 million dollar mortgage.

This is where the business will fail. When those owned farms sell, the dynamics will change and boarding will double overnight.[/QUOTE]

Not sure what it is like in all areas, but in the past 20 yrs I can think of large barns built with lots of PR , a boom and then after a couple of years the anchor trainer switches, how it will be run switches, the riding discipline switches, and a decade or so later everyone wonders what happened to that barn they drove by and is it vacant or something all together different.

Meanwhile the family owned barn keeps ticking past that somewhat simialar to what it was originally until the family changes or the land offer is too good to pass on. Something to be said for stability.

[threedogpack]

I would give my horses away if I had to pay $1k for board.

[Chief2]

^ Remember, the $1,000 is for a heated barn. Many of us are not in that situation, and never want to be. I keep my horse very nicely stalled in an unheated barn for far less than that. The barn has been successfully family-run for years.

[kdow]

[QUOTE=Chief2;8293613]
^ Remember, the $1,000 is for a heated barn. Many of us are not in that situation, and never want to be. I keep my horse very nicely stalled in an unheated barn for far less than that. The barn has been successfully family-run for years.[/QUOTE]

I thought it was generally considered that heated barns aren’t good for horses anyway? Not enough ventilation?

(Mind, I suppose it depends where you live. Around here, typically a decently built barn with a bunch of horses that is shut up a bit - large doors closed, anything facing into the wind closed, etc - will be not warm, but not “omg my fingers are going to fall off trying to fasten the buckles on your bridle” freezing. But we usually do not have very long, very cold stretches. In some areas, I can see where heating to the “my fingers won’t fall off” point would be nice?)

[kirbydog]

^ Our barn is heated, but has an air exchange/vent system installed in the whole barn. Prior to our big “face lift” last year, we didn’t have that and it did get stagnant. Now the air quality is always good.
Besides the obvious upside of heat in the barn, we never have a problem with frozen water buckets in the very harsh N Illinois winters. BUT, it has to be paid for somehow…another example of you get what you pay for, with regard to boarding rates.

[gumtree]

I asked a long retired from horses friend what board cost at the average barn in 1975. $10 a day. $300 a month

Using an inflation calculator that “1975 $10” is “worth” $44.36 in “2015 dollars”

So if “board” kept up with inflation it should cost $1,330.80 per month. Because EVERYTHING else and fixed costs have gone up the same.

Conversely, if someone is charging $400 a month for board 2015. That would be $90 in 1975. $3 per day.

In 2005 we were paying less than $7 for a 50 lb. bag for a decent quality national brand feed. Now around $18.

A lot of people are fixating on the OP’s hypothetical $1000 instead of seeing/understanding the “big picture”.

People can “shop around” all they want it is a free market. The point that I and others have been trying to make is the fact that there are going to be less and less barns to “shop around for”.

Yes, boarding barns with or without the “extras” have and will come and go. But make no mistake there are going to be a lot less “dreamers” getting in and will get out a lot quicker.

[airhorse]

Certainly makes a case for the equine community where everybody keeps their horses at home and shares a large arena / arenas.

[Casey09]

[QUOTE=gumtree;8293914]
I asked a long retired from horses friend what board cost at the average barn in 1975. $10 a day. $300 a month

Using an inflation calculator that “1975 $10” is “worth” $44.36 in “2015 dollars”

So if “board” kept up with inflation it should cost $1,330.80 per month. Because EVERYTHING else and fixed costs have gone up the same.

Conversely, if someone is charging $400 a month for board 2015. That would be $90 in 1975. $3 per day.

In 2005 we were paying less than $7 for a 50 lb. bag for a decent quality national brand feed. Now around $18.

A lot of people are fixating on the OP’s hypothetical $1000 instead of seeing/understanding the “big picture”.

People can “shop around” all they want it is a free market. The point that I and others have been trying to make is the fact that there are going to be less and less barns to “shop around for”.

Yes, boarding barns with or without the “extras” have and will come and go. But make no mistake there are going to be a lot less “dreamers” getting in and will get out a lot quicker.[/QUOTE]

I certainly agree that the number of barns will decrease. I see large sections of land being sold and developed, and there are no new boarding barns nearby. It simply isn’t profitable enough and doesn’t draw a wide enough section of the public for most people to go into the business. I also see a lot of boarders getting out of horse ownership. At the barn I board at, I’d guess that many of the current boarders won’t ever purchase another horse. I’d like to continue riding and having a horse, but sometimes I wonder whether I will continue to be able to. The barn I board at now is nice and convenient. If I couldn’t board where I do, I’d either have to board with very limited turnout or drive much farther to the barn. I love horses and riding, but it is a very difficult hobby to pursue.

I would love to live in an area with enough horse people to support a community with shared arenas, trails, etc. I think that while feed and other costs have dramatically increased, one of the biggest challenges in horse ownership is thet ability to pay someone enough to do the labor to care for a horse every single day.

[CHT]

I can think of 6 new indoor arena facilities that were built in the last 10 years in my area (within 30 minutes of where I live). I don’t think it is all doom and gloom for the horse industry, I do think that some people may have to be more realistic as to their expectations of what they will get for their dollar (both boarders and barn owners)

[Miss_Motivation]

This thread continues to fascinate.

Gumtree, I really appreciate your post about then and now boarding prices! I have often wondered, if I could find an old invoice from when I was in high school and had a hunter in training… how would those prices translate today?

You pretty much answered that question. Boarding costs have, in many instances, not kept pace with inflation.

IF anyone else has verifiable boarding costs from the old days, and a note about what was included and the location of the farm, would be interesting to see if what Gumtree hints at is true. I think it is.

I would also wonder what housing costs (apartment or single family home) have done during the same time. Because that is a much bigger market, I will guess that human boarding and horse boarding have not followed parallel trajectories when it comes to relative cost.

Edited to add: I would guess that a significant proportion of my current boarders- 1/3 or more- will not replace their current horses. Baby boomers aging out and costs of ownership are big, big issues. I often bless Purina (insert favorite feed company name here; this is not a nutritional endorsement) for making better feed to keep my boarders’ horse alive for so long.

Thanks to all who keep building this discussion!

[skyon]

[QUOTE=gumtree;8293914]
People can “shop around” all they want it is a free market. The point that I and others have been trying to make is the fact that there are going to be less and less barns to “shop around for”.

Yes, boarding barns with or without the “extras” have and will come and go. But make no mistake there are going to be a lot less “dreamers” getting in and will get out a lot quicker.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know why anyone is shocked at this, especially near cities, but for the quote about $300 in 1975, again it depends on what you do with the animal and where you are located. You could find $10 a day in someother location and that person may have had access to a better pasture and care than the $300.

There are people posting here noting they still have better care at $330 TODAY depending on where they are located.

As for “dreamers” - I think maybe that should include anyone who pays their bills on time today that thinks they can do it for the long term. Including those who are paying past $2000. I would think the window of being able to own/lease a horse will be much shorter. If they are leased- then it can all go back to the source to handle in the long term.

[threedogpack]

I think owning, riding and even just having horses is going to be more difficult than it used to be. Around here, Podunk USA, there are about 4 barns that board. The vets around here are cattle vets, who do side work as equine vets. If you want someone who has a lot of experience in horses, you travel TO them. That can be a problem if your horse has come in from the pasture with a degloved leg or and artery spurt.

I know that I’d love to get out of horses. The money I spent over the last 5 years would have remodeled my house nicely.

[LarkspurCO]

[QUOTE=gumtree;8293914]
I asked a long retired from horses friend what board cost at the average barn in 1975. $10 a day. $300 a month.[/QUOTE]

That may have been an average rate for a very expensive area or very upscale barn back then. I sounds high anyway.

In the early-mid 1980s (in the Midwest) I paid $3 a day for full care board at a quarter horse breeding farm. It included a stall with run and daily turnout in a nice pasture with grass and free-choice hay and a small indoor.

I also ran a boarding barn in the early 80s, closer to a large city, and charged $95/month for full care stall board and daily turnout. It was not a fancy place by any means and had no indoor, but there was access to miles of trails. Pasture board was $30 in summer and $50 in winter.