Why stall boarding rates need to at least double across the Midwest

[airhorse]

[QUOTE=ToN Farm;8282682]
I don’t understand this. Farm insurance is 6k a year because you hold clinics? If your farm isn’t a business, then your insurance would just be a homeowners insurance wouldn’t it?[/QUOTE]

Take in dollar one, homeowners drops you that day. Have a website, homeowners drops you that day. Have a sign out front, homeowners drops you that day. We have experienced every one. There is no middle ground, you are either commercial or not. We thought we had a company that would deal with us just doing homeowners and event coverage, the underwriter flipped out because we have a website.

As is it costs us about $200 per day to host clinics due to the increase in premiums over homeowners.

We know of several boarding facilities that are skating by on homeowners insurance, just hoping nothing ever happens. Even the most basic of commercial policies are very expensive, and don’t forget care custody and control to insure your baby if the unthinkable happens.

So, when you think $200 per month is plenty to care for your horse, 1 decent repair can wipe out several months of profit.

Like I said, many areas are trying to kick us out of Ag and into commercial zoning. If that happens, 1K will be a bargain and many facilities will be forced to close.

[Smiles]

I think the problem with your scenario is you are trying to compare Big fancy show barn (apple) to run of the mill barn (orange). If all things were equal people would pay the same price at both facilities, but we all know that market drives demand. I live 20 miles northwest of Chicago and board ranges anywhere from $300 retire horse farm with no indoor to $1500/$2000 for top notch show barn. The further you get away from the city the cheaper land prices are, however you can’t change the price of new construction no matter where you live. Most people running small farm business do it because they are offsetting cost. These people have daytime jobs and are aware you can’t make a (living) off boarding alone. Unless you are a trainer/owner and horses is you full time occupation don’t plan on this being a money making career…

[ladyj79]

I think op isn’t aware you can’t make a living off of boarding alone. Can’t speak for everyone, op, but I have never ever ever in a lifetime of horses and disciplines, levels and locations, met a single person who made a living by boarding alone.

[Equibrit]

[QUOTE=HorseCzar;8283377]
If we go with 20% profit margin we get these results :

$350 for stall, electricity, water, insurance, taxes, maintenence expenses, etc.

$210 a month for approximately 1 bale of hay a day. That is what my boarders demand.

$100 a month for bedding at the amount that is demanded.

$135 for paid labor per month for stall.

That comes to $695. With a 20% profit margin that comes to $834/month

So for about $140 a month I have to work all hours, and coordinate, and handle complaining, interrupted personal time and high maintenance people, for about $4.60 a day?

The above prices also allow for no new equipment purchased, maintained, repaired, or purchasing expansions for an indoor arena or outdoor arena.

Is that more reasonable?

Now I love horses and boarding, but if an extremely high rate causes people to need to move to pasture, or lot boarding, or leave horses altogether, that might need to sadly happen. It’s terrible but it’s true.[/QUOTE]

Those figures do not make any sense. I keep my own horses and the costs that you are quoting are nonsensical.

If people involved in boarding barns were really in business they would be registered as some sort of entity,like Sub Chapter S Corp, LLC et al. They would also include facilities as assets and be depreciating them, and taking advantage of all tax exemptions available. They would be strictly seperating their personal expenses from their business. They would be buying commercial insurance, not paying sales tax on purchases etc.etc… They would be negotiating discounts with suppliers, and keeping excellent records so that they KNOW exactly how the money side of their business works.

For instance;
For 1 x 17 hand horse per day.
1/3 bale of Hay = $2.32 (out on pasture 12 hrs)
Daily feed - $2.75 (TC Senior)
Bedding = $0.85 (1 bag pellets per week)
Electricity = $0.20
Labour = 15 mins = $2.50 (my time)
Water is free.

Total $8.62 x 30 days = $258.60

Of course that does not take in to account pasture maintenance, equipment, taxes and insurance. I am not a business so I pay sales tax and don’t get discounts.

If you are running a business, you finance the facilities/equipment, depreciate them and claim the interest as expenses.

[HorseCzar]

I have to be able to live off of the boarding profit. It takes so much time I cannot have a full time or part time job. Is that unreasonable? Why?

[ladyj79]

[QUOTE=HorseCzar;8283599]
I have to be able to live off of the boarding profit. It takes so much time I cannot have a full time or part time job. Is that unreasonable? Why?[/QUOTE]

Good luck, you’ll be a first, and then you can explain how you did it to everyone else. Charge whatever you feel you need to to live on, but don’t be surprised when you have zero boarders.

[Emilia]

It might not be unreasonable, HorseCzar, but you are competing against people, who do not have that need.

Let’s look at my experience, for example. I boarded at a “trust child’s” place, where she kept boarders basically as a company, then there was a subsidized military boarding facility, then a barn kept by a person retired from a well paying job (lived off the retirement and savings, so did not need the boarding money).

Their boards were well under $ 1,000.

We have our horses at our own place now, but, I can see the similar picture around here- trust people, retired people (with good retirement income), people with high-earning spouses, etc.

Now, boards are higher here, as this is a high income area and prices for services reflect that. Yet, I do not know one single barn that would live off of boarding only. Low-key barns with no large program are all “hobby farms” and boarding is a way to offset the cost of BO’s own horses (as others pointed out before).

It is a mixed up market environment and difficult for people like you, but it surely is great for all those middle class horse loving people, who can afford to stay in horses only thanks to the folks, who do not need the money and still go through the trouble of offering the boarding.

[airhorse]

For 1 x 17 hand horse per day.

1/3 bale of Hay = $2.32 (out on pasture 12 hrs) - Plus the cost of stacking and storing

Daily feed - $2.75 (TC Senior) Plus the cost and time of getting or having delivered.

Bedding = $0.85 (1 bag pellets per week) See above…

Electricity = $0.20 - OK until winter.

Labour = 15 mins = $2.50 (my time) - Workman’s comp, and good luck finding barn help for $10 per hour.

Water is free. - Can I come get some.

Total $8.62 x 30 days = $258.60

Of course that does not take in to account pasture maintenance, equipment, taxes and insurance. - This says it all…

[HorseCzar]

So since boarding requires at least an 80 hour work week to maintain, why should a boarding facility not make enough for the owners and workers to live off of, and pay for maintenance, repairs, horse care, etc.? Why?

I’m seeing two types of posters: those who accurately estimate the cost and time of running a facility, and those who are severely and dangerously underestimating the costs and time required to care for horses and a facility. Especially if they are trying to please clientele.

[ladyj79]

I have run a facility. And had a job. And a part time job. Being realistic about time and costs is entirely unrelated to what the market will bear. Also life isn’t fair.

[ladyj79]

And again I have not and do not to this day know anyone who has made a living just boarding horses.

[HorseCzar]

[QUOTE=ladyj79;8283654]
I have run a facility. And had a job. And a part time job. [/QUOTE]

This is not true. At least not simultaneously. What was your schedule? How many horses and clients? How many stalls? When did you maintain the property? How did you afford it?

Life isn’t fair when a tornado destroys your home. When an industry is broken, thats not fairness, that’s brokenness.

[Wonders12]

I find it interesting that so many people on here repeatedly say, “I keep my horse at home for $x hay, feed, and bedding, so why can’t the boarding barn do that?”

I think that idea is why the industry is what it is. That and people who are willing to lose money on boarding operations because it’s basically their hobby.

Unfortunately, like I said in my other post, I believe this thought process is going to eliminate the middle of the road barns.

[ladyj79]

[QUOTE=HorseCzar;8283697]
This is not true. At least not simultaneously. [/QUOTE]

Really? Then, again, point out to me one person who is making a living just boarding horses? I think you’ll find everyone on the boards and in real life who has run/managed/owned a facility has had another job, had an so or family with job/money, or offered additional services such as lessons/training.

I am waiting for the person who is making their living just boarding to come here and tell you how it’s done, because, for the third time, in my experience it just can’t be done.

That you want it to be so isn’t a sufficient enough market force. You can blame the cruel fates or suck it up and make it work like the rest of us.

[Texarkana]

Unless we’re talking minimal or self-care boarding, I don’t know how anyone could expect a BO/BM to manage 16 stall-boarded horses and still hold down even a part-time job for personal income.

Feeding, watering, turn out, stall cleaning… that alone is going to take a huge chunk of time every day. And then you have all of the extras that are inevitable, like mowing, property maintenance, repairs, farrier/vet appointments, injured or sick horses… the list goes on and on. If you’re leaving the farm to work another job, you’re going to need staff.

If someone chooses to pursue the backbreaking and thankless job of boarding other people’s horses, why shouldn’t they be able to support themselves off of it? Why are they expected to do it as a labor of love and take a loss on their own money and time?

Which, I believe, the is the OP’s whole point-- the system is broken. The market can’t afford or doesn’t want to pay enough for barn owners to support themselves off boarding alone. The options for many barn owners who don’t have additional income are: get out of the business, cut corners on horse care, or burn yourself out trying to make it work.

[clanter]

[QUOTE=HorseCzar;8283599]
I have to be able to live off of the boarding profit. It takes so much time I cannot have a full time or part time job. Is that unreasonable? Why?[/QUOTE]

Well board dogs and cats… much more money in pet boarding… and learn about fish also to take of fish tanks.

Before we had our farm we did a study for another person for a boarding kennel in our area… for a faction of the cost even with buying all new stainless cages and building runs the income from a mid sized boarding operation was a zillon times greater than horse farm (the only difference for us we struck gas and oil under our pastures and that’s how we made money on boarding horses)

[mvp]

[QUOTE=ladyj79;8283654]
Being realistic about time and costs is entirely unrelated to what the market will bear. Also life isn’t fair. :([/QUOTE]

Those statements may both be true. But they aren’t helpful for an industry. No rational economic actor will choose to go into a business that looses money because customers don’t want to pay and content themselves with the axiom that “life isn’t fair.”

I point out that those ideas are unhelpful because it screws over HOs and BOs alike to take a cavalier attitude about the gutting of the boarding industry. It’s tough when you can’t find the standard of care you want in your area at any price because people have been gradually extracting money from boarding for so long that the entire range of options is mediocre at best.

[saultgirl]

[QUOTE=monalisa;8280746]
I am in the Mid-Atlantic and have my own farm where I own four horses. I do not board but am frequently asked why I am not boarding horses - and I always turn them down. I do all my own work and also work 40-50 hours a week. I could not charge people what it would cost for me to take care of their horses when I factor in insurance costs, labor costs (when I have to hire someone when I am out of town) not to mention maintenance. I think people are crazy to board horses in this day and age for the amount of work it takes vis-a-vis what you can charge. People who complain should own their own place, try to find dependable help (impossible where I live). It is truly a labor of love for me.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this 100%.

I just laugh when people ask me why I’m not “making money” boarding horses.

Nope, nope, nope.

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=HorseCzar;8283697]
This is not true. At least not simultaneously. What was your schedule? How many horses and clients? How many stalls? When did you maintain the property? How did you afford it?

Life isn’t fair when a tornado destroys your home. When an industry is broken, thats not fairness, that’s brokenness.[/QUOTE]

No, it’s reality.

You can protect the value your property against a tornado with insurance. AFAIK there is no “going out of business” insurance.

If the market won’t bear a cost then that is the reality of the market. That’s the reality of capitalism. The equine business is one of the last bastions of true capitalism. It’s a market without government support or encouragement. If you want to survive you have to think 19th Century, not 21st.

I don’t like my own conclusion. Short of a licensing and enforcement scheme that shuts down the “back yard barns” that offer below cost boarding I don’t know how to build a stronger base for the professional barns. And if we shut down those low end facilities will the people boarding there move to a professional barn or just get rid of the horse? I don’t know.

G.

[Vindicated]

[QUOTE=HannahsMom7;8280682]
how many of your own horses are you boarding? if you are boarding any of your horses, that is your profit.[/QUOTE]

Thank you!!