Why stall boarding rates need to at least double across the Midwest

[Gestalt]

The system isn’t broken. This system has been around for a long, long time. If you want to make money in the horse boarding world you need to have something other than board. I know that sounds weird!

Show barns and medical/layup barns are the only ones I know of that can make it. And I would bet that owner and or trainer is working way more than 40 hours a week.

I guess your options are to get a real job or become a specialty barn. Please don’t make me into a parasite because I won’t pay high rates and support the bo’s lifestyle choice.

[Vindicated]

[QUOTE=HorseCzar;8283643]
So since boarding requires at least an 80 hour work week to maintain, why should a boarding facility not make enough for the owners and workers to live off of, and pay for maintenance, repairs, horse care, etc.? Why?

I’m seeing two types of posters: those who accurately estimate the cost and time of running a facility, and those who are severely and dangerously underestimating the costs and time required to care for horses and a facility. Especially if they are trying to please clientele.[/QUOTE]

Because if it is requiring 80 hours of your time, and you are also PAYING labor. You are doing it wrong.
Period.

[Casey09]

I just don’t see what solution you are hoping for. I can tell you that I live in the Midwest, I pay less than $1000 per month for board, and the barn is still accepting new boarders. Boarders, just like any customers, are going to compare the costs with the amenities available in their market, and pick the option that makes the most sense for them. This biggest problem I see in my area is a lack of horse owners who wish to board. It seemed like a lot of people got out of horses in the last recession because they are expensive. The problem with the industry may be that there aren’t enough people with enough money to board horses. Anyone can price board at whatever level they wish - and customers either will or will not come. To me it seems that there are fewer and fewer customers, and so there are fewer boarding barns.
At the same time, I also come from an industry with very tight margins. I was told that if it were easy to make money at, everyone would be doing it. Boarding horses is very hard to make money at, which is why everyone isn’t doing it. However, boarding horses to earn money from lessons, training, etc. is a business model that some people are happy with.
I agree that if there isn’t enough money in boarding horses, then there are more lucrative boarding opportunities in dogs and cats.
There are more people who can afford to pamper a house pet for a week than people who can pay someone else to care for a horse everyday.

[HorseCzar]

[QUOTE=Gestalt;8283819]
The system isn’t broken. This system has been around for a long, long time. If you want to make money in the horse boarding world you need to have something other than board. I know that sounds weird!

Show barns and medical/layup barns are the only ones I know of that can make it. And I would bet that owner and or trainer is working way more than 40 hours a week.

I guess your options are to get a real job or become a specialty barn. Please don’t make me into a parasite because I won’t pay high rates and support the bo’s lifestyle choice.[/QUOTE]

Lol. I had a real job at the same time. I had to leave it because boarding required too much time. I guarantee I work far more hours than you do per week that you’d probably think I had powers to manipulate time itself.

Believe me. When I was a boarder I constantly talked about how this barn is doing “that” wrong and that barn is doing “this” wrong. Etc. When you have 23 outside boarders and 16 inside boarders and barely make it, you’ll understand.

Oh and for the record, I have only two of my own horses. outside.

[Vindicated]

So,
OP never answered if she is boarding her own horses. That is eating into her profit.

Also. 110% profit. Bahhahahahhha. Right. I work for a fairly successful company, and we are very happy if our projects are 20%.

And… Business owners-all of them, not just BO’s. You drive that farm truck to the grocery store? You haul your own horses in that farm trailer? You feed your own horses? You work from home, so you don’t have child care? All of the “things” that are kind business related, but totally business expenses because they are tax exempt come April 15. That is part of your profit.

My original post stated that the home mortgage should not be included.
Example:
We moved from a house that was in an icky school system, but very well located on 1/2 acre of land.
Finishes were nicer (I did them all), but the house smaller by about 250 sq ft main level living space.

New house is on close to 8 acres
250 sq ft larger main level living space
Better floor plan
Nicer basement
Pole barn
Needs updating
Up and coming school district (both my husband and I commute 20 min more than before)

This cost us an additional $21,000 if you compare our previous houses sale price vs our current houses purchase price.

Now how about figuring equity…
That land you purchased for $10,000 an acre. At somepoint in the future could be worth $20,000 +

Now for my breakdown on my costs. Figuring on a 30 day month & 4 weeks
I have 4 horses at home

Horse A- Pays $150 per month. I get labor out of this owner.
Eats 2/3 bale per day @ $3.50 $69.93
8 bags of pellets a month @ $5 $40
1.5 lbs of Ration Balancer (50 lb bag @ $30= .60 per lb) $27 Per month
$136.92

Horse B Pays $200 per month
Eats 1/2 Bale per day @ $3.50 $52.50
Grain 1 lbs ration balancer @ .6 per LB $18
No bedding (Lives out)

Farrier $24.79 Monthly (6 week trim schedule)
Worming $8 (If divided annually Fecal tests & paste)
$103.29

Horse C Pays $150 per Month, I get labor from this owner.
2/3 Bale per day $69.93
2 LBS Ration Balancer $36
2 LBS additional feed $22.8
6 Bags Bedding per $30
$158.73

So I bring in $500 per month (not actual income, I have that worked out differently)
I have $398.20 in monthly expenses before my labor/mortgage/electric.
Not such a great deal…

Except when you factor in my horse

He cannot live outside, he does not tolerate it.
He eats pretty much the same as Horse C $128.73
More bedding 10 bags per month $50
$178.73 Total cost

Now when you figure that the only place local to me that I would trust him at (he is a total hot house flower that has to be monitored through every weather change, ect) is $430 per month I have a monthly SAVINGS of $251.27.
Which more than covers my portion of the labor.

Now figure that I have 2 more horses that are still boarded out. $750 in total monthly savings once they both come home.

My point here is, boarding is frequently more than just the obvious profit margin.

[ladyj79]

[QUOTE=Guilherme;8283801]
Short of a licensing and enforcement scheme that shuts down the “back yard barns” that offer below cost boarding I don’t know how to build a stronger base for the professional barns.
G.[/QUOTE]

Professional barns in my experience are the most likely to offer “below cost boarding” because they aren’t trying to make money from boarding in the first place. They offer services (generally required lessons and training) that make up for the at best break even point of boarding horses. They are also the least likely to have a bunch of personal horses owned by trainer or bo hanging out eating money.

And many of these more “successful businesses” are backed by real non-horse related money. Like in the very immediate area where I was in MD we had TV show money, NFL money, generous sponsors, and quite a few old family money. MONEY money.

Generally the worst places are where bos don’t understand why their labor of love isn’t supporting them in the manner they would like to become accustomed to and gripe all the time.

[HorseCzar]

[QUOTE=Gestalt;8283819]
The system isn’t broken. This system has been around for a long, long time. If you want to make money in the horse boarding world you need to have something other than board. I know that sounds weird!

Show barns and medical/layup barns are the only ones I know of that can make it. And I would bet that owner and or trainer is working way more than 40 hours a week.

I guess your options are to get a real job or become a specialty barn. Please don’t make me into a parasite because I won’t pay high rates and support the bo’s lifestyle choice.[/QUOTE]

Lol. I had a real job at the same time. I had to leave it because boarding required too much time. I guarantee I work far more hours than you do per week that you’d probably think I had powers to manipulate time itself.

Believe me. When I was a boarder I constantly talked about how this barn is doing “that” wrong and that barn is doing “this” wrong. Etc. When you have 23 outside boarders and 16 inside boarders and barely make it, you’ll understand.

Oh and for the record, I have only two of my own horses. outside.

Oh and also, most other barns that are “making it” actually aren’t. I know of 3 that live off of flood insurance claims since they flood constantly. I know of two others that sell $500 for $30,000 in order to make it. I know of others that offer horse “training” for an atrocious price without working the horses because they have no time and make no money from board. Tell me the system works just fine.

[HorseCzar]

Crap and I quoted a response to the wrong post. Sorry.

[Vindicated]

Sweetheart, if you are boarding 23 outside, and 16 inside-and still not making it.
You should probably share a bit more of your costs, so that we can help you figure out why you aren’t making it.

Best guess-you are either doing the math wrong (ie, not figuring the costs of the things you use into profit) or not shopping for better bargins on fixed items.

[Casey09]

[QUOTE=HorseCzar;8283846]
Lol. I had a real job at the same time. I had to leave it because boarding required too much time. I guarantee I work far more hours than you do per week that you’d probably think I had powers to manipulate time itself.

Believe me. When I was a boarder I constantly talked about how this barn is doing “that” wrong and that barn is doing “this” wrong. Etc. When you have 23 outside boarders and 16 inside boarders and barely make it, you’ll understand.

Oh and for the record, I have only two of my own horses. outside.[/QUOTE]

This is an honest question. Why didn’t you keep the job and quit the boarding business? If you are now working 80 hours a week and not making it, would it make more sense to simply get out of the business? If I had a side business that wasn’t paying the bills and was taking up a lot of my time, my first instinct wouldn’t be to quit my job and do the side business full time. My first instinct would be to scale back the side business, because it wouldn’t be profitable enough to do full time.

[HorseCzar]

I have two of my own horses. Outside. And i live IN the barn, in a single, 20’ x 30’ room. I don’t have a house. And I am meaning to reference stall boarders only.

Sigh this has devolved into BO vs HO’s. There is so many costs people don’t realize that unless you’ve ran a barn from scratch, you wouldn’t understand. For those that “have ran a barn” why did you stop if it was such a non issue?

You don’t realize that if there is not a significant profit margin, improvements cannot be made, breakdowns cannot be fixed, arenas cannot get new footing, stalls cannot be redone, etc.

The system is simply broken.

[Wonders12]

[QUOTE=clanter;8283762]
Well board dogs and cats… much more money in pet boarding… and learn about fish also to take of fish tanks.[/QUOTE]

Is that really what we want? Competent BOs to leave the industry?

[HorseCzar]

And also, to those who think you can get by without changing shavings/bedding daily or every two days at about a half bag of shavings have never been in a heated barn in the winter. The ammonia will melt your face after a horse has been inside overnight. Even with lime and trying to clean the urine spots.

[Guilherme]

Remember the old song “Good Vibrations.” I’m starting to get “bad vibrations.”

As in maybe we’re all being “fished.” New poster, total of 13 posts, and the story that was bad before gets consistently worse. No indication of location except now we’re told that they live in a place where they have to strip stalls every other day or suffer facial deformity due to ammonia. I know about cleaning barns in winter; that last one is a clue that something, here, is a few degrees off plumb.

That doesn’t mean that the discussion is not worthwhile; it does mean that my “Detector Set, Night Soil, Bovine, Male” is flashing yellow.

G.

[HorseCzar]

Yeah I’m a new poster. I guess I don’t get your point. Been boarding and in the horse world for a very long time. Going on 20 years.

So my number of posts determines the validity of my arguments?

[kdow]

@Guilherme;8283801

I don’t like my own conclusion. Short of a licensing and enforcement scheme that shuts down the “back yard barns” that offer below cost boarding I don’t know how to build a stronger base for the professional barns. And if we shut down those low end facilities will the people boarding there move to a professional barn or just get rid of the horse? I don’t know.

I don’t have a horse yet, but honestly if my only boarding option was the professional barns around here, I probably wouldn’t ever get one. I don’t intend and am not budgeting for bargain basement boarding, but the big professional barns (what few there are) are pretty much show and training barns that are supporting the upkeep of amenities I don’t need and wouldn’t use, and have an environment that just isn’t my style. (They prefer owners to be hands off, let the BM manage everything, etc. Pretty much a place where you just turn up to ride and then go away again.)

I suppose in a market where professional barns were the only option, there might be more variety in what pro barns offer, so perhaps one that is a little more low key would become available - but enough people around here also seem to NEED bargain basement boarding to just afford a horse that I think more than likely the majority of people would just get out of horses and there wouldn’t be enough business to support a variety of professional barns. You’d either pay for what there was, or not own a horse, or buy properly and keep the horse yourself if that was an option.

[bauhaus]

If all boarding prices rose to the point that barn owners could pay the mortgage on their personal home and support themselves solely on boarding horses in an area within a decent commute to where people with disposable income live, they would likely have no customers.

This isn’t because the customers are meanies, this is because they would be competing for a very limited number of customers who can afford to subsidise a mortgage for the barn owner, above minimum wage labor, and investment into the property. Those customers don’t have that much disposable income by accident, and most of them would realize that at those prices they could be paying that “extra” money for their own mortgage on a home with enough land to keep a couple of horses in their backyard and associated expenses, and this would be money they could view to some degree as an investment. This obviously doesn’t apply in super high density areas where land is outrageously expensive but I assume that no one who could afford the mortgage on a farm in a place like that would even think of expecting it to turn enough of a profit to be their sole source of income.

Of the customers you’re competing for who would consider it worth any expense to not take on the time spent and difficulty of keeping horses at home or who want to have access to trainers and to show, at that price in most areas with that kind of wealth you’d be competing against facilities with BNTs on staff, heated indoor arenas, horse shows and clinics on site, etc etc. Those facilities don’t have to support themselves on board alone, because they make money on sales, lessons, training, showing, breeding, or other specialized services like rehab. Additionally the bigger and more well endowed the barn, the lower their costs on supplies they’re able to purchase in bulk. They can negotiate contracts with feed and shavings suppliers and hay growers that you simply can’t. They’re not buying $5 individual bags of shavings. They’re buying tractor trailers full.

In any case, the horse business is HARD and it’s mostly supported by people who make lots of money doing other things besides horses. Haven’t you ever heard the saying if you want to make a million dollars in horses, start with 2 million? I assume you’re not expecting to become a millionaire but the statement still applies. 90% of the people who support themselves on horses are all standing on a lifetime of someone else’s big shoulders whether they admit it or not (wealthy spouse, inheritance, generous parents, generous horse owners). Yes it’s hours upon hours of hard work and yes it’s stressful and expensive, but I can’t imagine anyone thinking it would be otherwise.

[js]

[QUOTE=HorseCzar;8283949]
And also, to those who think you can get by without changing shavings/bedding daily or every two days at about a half bag of shavings have never been in a heated barn in the winter. The ammonia will melt your face after a horse has been inside overnight. Even with lime and trying to clean the urine spots.[/QUOTE]

Try using Sweet PDZ works much better than lime

[CHT]

I think part of the problem OP is that you are expecting a professional income from what is basically an entry level position.

Stall cleaning and property maintenance is pretty much minimum wage. To make a professional level income, you need to offer professional services such as rehab, training or lessons.

Alternatively, if you don’t want to work for minimum wage, you hire someone who will, and then work a professional level job.

(I have been running my barn for 11 years)

[saultgirl]

[QUOTE=HorseCzar;8283949]
And also, to those who think you can get by without changing shavings/bedding daily or every two days at about a half bag of shavings have never been in a heated barn in the winter. The ammonia will melt your face after a horse has been inside overnight. Even with lime and trying to clean the urine spots.[/QUOTE]

Heating a barn in the winter is definitely going to cut into the profit!!