I just got a new mare and am already stallion shopping for 2011 (ok maybe its a little early). Now that Wolkentanz II is fresh, does anyone have any experience with his offpspring? What type of mare does he need?
Very interested in him as well! We have a GORGEOUS mare in our barn by him, a “10” mover. Considering him for my Balta Czar mare as well. Don’t know anything about her dam though, except she is the mother of 3 VERY nice horses in our barn by various sires.
He throws large foals. Stamps them well but large.
The stallion owners are great to work with!
Dan
No, it’s not too early! LOL
Love my 2010 colt
Love my Wolkentanz II colt from this year!!! He is as easy and sweet as they come. Very quiet, very large, and really gorgeous!! He will be inspected on Weds., and hopefully I will have some good photos to share then.
Just wondering if anyone has anything to add here for Wolkentanz II offspring? or any other relevant info?
I am thinking of breeding my TB mare to him, who’s crossed SUPER successfully to another hanoverian stallion in the past, and am wondering how he crosses with TBs?
Thanks for any info!
I have one out of my TB mare: http://www.equusmagnificus.ca/breeding/broodmares/walkyrie-e-m/
Here’s the little blurb I wrote about WII: http://www.equusmagnificus.ca/breeding/stallions/wolkentanz-ii/
The TB dam:
http://www.equusmagnificus.ca/breeding/broodmares/curcuma-barbarees-hill/
Thanks Equus -
I’ve got a few questions with regards to your write-up about the stallion.
You mention W-blood produces rearers. Do you mean hot horses by this, or…?
You also say you didn’t feel he was a dressage producer, and then later go on to say he is thought to be a “jump-killer”. What then does he leave undetered?
My mare is extremely sensitive, eager to please, but not a willing, rideable horse. It’s hard to describe; I think most of it was due to her upbringing honestly… She used to also be a rearer, part of the reason she’s retired to a broodmare, so your comments are a bit concerning for me with regards to this mare. If you could clarify that would be lovely! 
Many thanks!
I was told rearers. My filly had that tendency pretty strongly as a very young foal. She is much better now, but you can tell she’s one with a lighter front end, if you see what I mean. 
I know I will get slapped for this, but I don’t see him as a stricly dressage specialist such as Breitling W for instance. But he is mainly a dressage producer; but I am always uneasy about the stats as being dressage-bred, he has also been mostly used on dressage mares which does skew the results somewhat. Wolkentanz II himself is not a jump-killer, I was told it was the Weltmeyer blood.
I was told I was lucky I was unaware of some issues that I had used an extremely docile and workmanlike mare. I would be leary to use a W-line stallion on a mare who already has issues with rearing.
But all this is only worth what you paid for it. :winkgrin: I am not a W-line expert or even a Wolkentanz II expert for that matter! I just have my personal experience with him. :yes:
Oh and I just saw you’re from Ontario, I’m just north of Montreal. If you’re in the area at some point, you’re welcome to come and see my filly. In the end, seeing the foals is the best way to decide whether a stallion is right or not for you. :yes:
[QUOTE=ThisMagicMoment;6301460]
Just wondering if anyone has anything to add here for Wolkentanz II offspring? or any other relevant info?
I am thinking of breeding my TB mare to him, who’s crossed SUPER successfully to another hanoverian stallion in the past, and am wondering how he crosses with TBs?
Thanks for any info![/QUOTE]
Not quite Wolkentanz II but my mare is Wolkentanz I x TB - you can see her here:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.174480992565155.45863.100000097655253&type=3
she is 16h gorgeous, really elastic swingy big movement. sensitive and hot
edit: i just read the other comments - my mare is not a rearer, but her initial response to anything scary is to go up/back… not rear… but def up/back … interesting.
A old horseman used to say to my parents in the 60’s - “Some horses rear. Some horses buck. Some do both.” He was a specialist who dealt with problem horses for a living.
I wouldn’t attach any ‘blame’ to WII for any propensity of his offspring for standing on their hind legs but that is my SO side speaking.
If I switch hats and become a MO - we bred a WI in 04, sold as a long yearling and apparently he had a rearing fear reaction - if he was upset, startled, PO’d - he’d rear and paw the air. He was easy to start and did not rear or buck - very hot, sensitive and FORWARD. Haven’t heard much about him as he’s changed hands again. 
In that same year we had a Weltmeyer and have kept him and he’s between PSG-GP now. He has never stood up other than a bit of roughhousing in turnout. He’s a bucker/leaper if you can appreciate the difference - more inclined to do a Rumplestiltzkin and bounce the hind feet than lighten the front that much…but I avoid hanging on his front end at all costs and forward is the solution for any/all bad thoughts! But it is not in his nature/reaction list to rear (thank goodness/knock wood)! Our WI & Weltmeyer were out of 3/4 sisters (1 granddam is different) FWIW.
This is all a surprise to me. I’ve only heard good things to date about WII babies, temperamentally.
And his index as a dressage sire, as well as a producer of type and rideability are extremely high.
I think he can produce hunters - light-footed ones.
I had a filly last week - a doll, friendly, lively at peace with the world, and I’m expecting another WII in about 3 weeks - so, yes, I’m a fan.
You can see pics of my filly on my webpage http://www.sunnydayshanoverians.com/young/young.html
or my facebook album
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150899569681407.464171.576941406&type=3&l=2a7cae2963
[QUOTE=Sunnydays;6302854]
This is all a surprise to me. I’ve only heard good things to date about WII babies, temperamentally.
And his index as a dressage sire, as well as a producer of type and rideability are extremely high.
I think he can produce hunters - light-footed ones.
I had a filly last week - a doll, friendly, lively at peace with the world, and I’m expecting another WII in about 3 weeks - so, yes, I’m a fan.
You can see pics of my filly on my webpage http://www.sunnydayshanoverians.com/young/young.html
or my facebook album
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150899569681407.464171.576941406&type=3&l=2a7cae2963[/QUOTE]
I know! :eek: I had the same reaction as you! But again, for what it’s worth, that’s what I was told and I trust my source.
I’m telling you, we need to use NA stallions that have been around only. There is some important knowledge to be gained through the branches…
Funny. I have bred many W-line youngsters - 2 direct Weltmeyers, 3 Wolkentanz I, 4 Weltbekannt, 1 Wolkenstein II. Of those 9 are under saddle.
None were rearers. In fact, the Weltbekannts and the Wolkentanz offspring were bold and basically had no spook in them.
Some started out a little lazy and learned forward and good response through good initial training. A few were hot, but what my trainer calls “good hot.” In other words, they were quick off the leg, eager to please, with a lot of heart and a workaholic attitude.
Most had not only good walks, but really, really good walks - scoring 8s and 9s regularly (but then so did their mamas).
Two did mpts, one with ok jumping scores (for a dressage horse) and the other with excellent jumping scores despite her being in a chute for the first time at her mpt and being very much dressage bred top and bottom.
All but one that have been under saddle had way above average rideability and gaits.
[QUOTE=Home Again Farm;6303250]
Funny. I have bred many W-line youngsters - 2 direct Weltmeyers, 3 Wolkentanz I, 4 Weltbekannt, 1 Wolkenstein II. Of those 9 are under saddle.
None were rearers. In fact, the Weltbekannts and the Wolkentanz offspring were bold and basically had no spook in them.
Some started out a little lazy and learned forward and good response through good initial training. A few were hot, but what my trainer calls “good hot.” In other words, they were quick off the leg, eager to please, with a lot of heart and a workaholic attitude.
Most had not only good walks, but really, really good walks - scoring 8s and 9s regularly (but then so did their mamas).
Two did mpts, one with ok jumping scores (for a dressage horse) and the other with excellent jumping scores despite her being in a chute for the first time at her mpt and being very much dressage bred top and bottom.
All but one that have been under saddle had way above average rideability and gaits.[/QUOTE]
I am glad you added your input HomeAgain. You have more first hand experience than me!
I will add that while I have discovered some more negative points, I would and will most likely repeat the cross. They all have flaws, and those are the ones I have noticed or been informed about.
Actually, looking back at my “W” babies, none have been rearers. That includes 1 Weltmeyer, 2 Weltregents, 1 Wolkenglanz, and 2 Widmarks. The Wolkenglanz is not yet undersaddle - but she has NEVER reared while being led.
The others have all been very rideable and keen learners.
There is noone who is a bigger W fan that me. That said, I had a Wolkentanz I (full brother to WII) mare and she was a rearer. She was going fantastically undersaddle and won at her first Gold dressage show as a four-year old and then I left her with a trainer for a couple of months while I was away at grad school and when I came back she was a confirmed rearer. Now, I don’t know if “something happened” while I was gone, but I couldn’t break the habit. I ended up basically giving her away to a good friend who spent quite a bit of time rehabbing her and now she is a happy hunter/pleasure horse and hasn’t reared since. I owned the same mare’s 3/4 sister by Wolkenstein II and that mare had the BEST temperament of any horse I’ve ever known. Won tons in the open dressage shows and then went on to win tons in the Para and juniour divisions. That Wolkenstein II mare is the founding mare of my breeding program and I am now enjoying her daughter by Freestyle and Granddaughter by Belissimo M, both of whom have fantastic temperaments (although a little more sensitive). I also had a super SPS Weltmeyer mare who was the mellowest, sweetest thing ever. I have have several friends with direct Weltmeyer offspring and they are successfully ridden by juniors and amateurs.
Personally I LOVE Wolkentanz II and I really hope to own a filly by him one day.
Forte, my Wolkenstein II was the least rideable of all my W line kids. One Weltmeyer was hot (but good hot with a great show record while ridden by a junior), the other not hot - but both ended up very rideable. All the Wolkentanz I offspring have exceptional minds (one is just a yearling, 1 just being started and the other well started under saddle, shown frequently, sometimes in big scary indoor venues and also has many offsping, several of which are under saddle and going beautifully). The Welbekannts across the board are smart, bold, rideable.
So my sample of 1 Wolkenstein was quite different from yours. Just as my 3 Wolkentanz I kids were very different from your one. That is why I really hesitate to put too much emphasis on a small sample being anything but anecdotal. And I am very hesitant to ever brand a whole line with any given highly negative trait, unless it comes through so strongly that it is reflected in indices with a high percentage of reliability. It is good to know what we all have experienced. I am not sure that it is good to generalize about a line or even a stallion based on our often very limited experiences.
I had a lovely little Dutch gelding years ago. He was like a Ferrari to ride. I let a trainer have him for a few months when I had no time for him. He came back rearing. He never fully got over it, but a really good rider managed to keep his feet on the ground for the most part after I gave him to her. Never in my wildest dreams would I have said the rearing was inherited from a parent. IME rearing is usually the result of training mistakes.
