Woman Shot at Barisone Farm

[Nestor]

I have to assume some of the difference of opinion here is how we all view the world. There’s right and wrong, I don’t honestly think anyone is arguing that what MB did was right. HOWEVER, there’s also a lot of gray, in that there might be contributing factors to why people do things.

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, I’m not perfect. If under the constant harassment of LK (assuming what has been described in this thread is accurate) I can’t say I wouldn’t have reacted irrationally. My emotions, stress level, outrage, could very possibly take over. I’m not comfortable with guns so that wouldn’t be likely, but I don’t have such a high opinion of myself that I can say I would be able to stay sane and logical through this whole situation.

That is where I’m coming from in saying anything along the lines of “she had it coming” because making someone’s life hell, you take the risk of them not reacting rationally anymore. She’s done it to enough people, from what we can tell, so at some point her luck had to run out and someone was going to fight back. No, it’s not the perfect, logical, saintly thing to do, but we are human, and we make mistakes, and we act irrationally. For MB, that involved a gun. It still isn’t clear how that came to be (Was he carrying it for protection 24/7, so of course had it on him when he went to talk to them? Did he go there planning to shoot one or both of them?), so I won’t pretend to have those answers.

It’s sad all around, but I have a hard time being purely sympathetic for LK. I do hope she realizes her own issues and gets some professional help so that maybe she can get her life on track.

[Jealoushe]

@RainWeasley

And that is your own problem then. Because me personally, that is not at all what I meant so there is nothing beyond the “semantics”. And I’m kind of sad you see it that way. I always like things you post. But I think you are looking too deeply into it.

I am glad to hear you don’t feel that way, I believe many others feel otherwise though. It is sad. I do agree that actions have consequences and that if you act a fool bad things can happen, but what I don’t believe is that LK was the only one in this scenario acting a fool. I also don’t think, there is enough facts for some of the stances seen on this board. A lot of leaping to conclusions that fit the outlook people want.

That being said, acting a fool shouldn’t mean that now people are obsessing over you, stalking your online presence, repeatedly starting threads about your life, contacting anyone who may have known you etc. And this is not directed at you Rain, but to say there is no hate towards LK on this board while witnessing those actions is contradictory to my mind.

I always joke about how cheating, or lying can get you killed. These things are almost always present in domestic murders, I have seen it time and time again, but it doesn’t mean the victim is no longer a victim just because they were a cheating asshole.

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

Throwing my 2 cents in just cause:
There are two victims here.
MB and LK.
LK because she was shot.
MB because by LK’s own admissions in several posts on social media bragging about her actions and behavior toward MB and his family.

We don’t know if he brought the weapon with him in order to kill her, or merely to try and threaten her.
We do know she was shot twice, it is alleged , by MB.

I have a hard time believing LK’s account of the events because she has different accounts on different days and I hardly think that the man with her would be a credible witness.

I value a lot of the thoughtful posts on this subject, but with all due respect, none of our opinions about this really matters unless we will be called for jury duty.

The legal points of the crime fascinate me, because I am Law & Order junkie. Although true crime doesn’t usually interest me.

I try always to remind myself that true justice doesn’t really exist but we do the best we can with what we have.

Absolutely no one can account for how jurors decide or even how judges will rule in a case that seems to us to be cut and dried.

I am sorry that LK got shot, glad that she recovered, and I am sorry that MB felt this was his only option.

Carry on

[RainWeasley]

@Jealoushe

That being said, acting a fool shouldn’t mean that now people are obsessing over you, stalking your online presence, repeatedly starting threads about your life, contacting anyone who may have known you etc.

100%. Definitely agree with you there.

[eggbutt]

@tryintogethere

1. No one was killed.

2. You really cannot think of an instance where a “victim” was “asking for it”? Because I sure can! If a man was abusing his wife/gf/so, and she shot him, or if a child being abused shot their abuser I bet you would be singing a very different tune! (Just some examples of shooting “victims” that may not be victims after all)

3. Having a history of “being extreme” does matter if you are fearing for your safety because of past history. I think that is probably why prison guards have guns. Again NO ONE WAS KILLED!!

4. We do not know what took place at the house, given MB’s injuries, the statement from LK that AFTER being shot “2 times center mass point blank” she was able to jump on MB, smash her phone in his ear, breaking her phone in his ear, while keeping him off of RG, it might seem like the timeframe of the “victim’s” account could maybe be off by a few minutes.

I have no love for LK. I am glad that she survived. I hope that no one else gets sucked into her black hole of evilness and that no one else goes through the nighmare that MB, MH and the rest of the people that were living at the farm during that period, went through!

BINGO!!! Until someone has witnessed LK’s behavior or actually been a victim of it, it is hard to comprehend the actions of MB.

Lk’s and RG’s timeline simply don’t add up. BTW, it is only THEIR statements that have been published. No one other than the few statements made by MB’s original attorney at his hearing have said anything public. Not MB or MHG or anyone else actually there that day!

[Denali6298]

@eggbutt

BINGO!!! Until someone has witnessed LK’s behavior or actually been a victim of it, it is hard to comprehend the actions of MB.

Lk’s and RG’s timeline simply don’t add up. BTW, it is only THEIR statements that have been published. No one other than the few statements made by MB’s original attorney at his hearing have said anything public. Not MB or MHG or anyone else actually there that day!

It is not about comprehension. There are those of us who would NOT take a gun with us to go talk to someone, let alone shoot them.

Yes her behavior is reprehensible but railing on about how she plays the victim all the time (which I agree she does) comes off as people wanting her to admit she deserved to get shot or say if she wasn’t such an asshat she never would have gotten shot. She shouldn’t have gotten shot period.

[x-halt-salute]

@Jealoushe

Just because you don’t type out THE EXACT WORDS…doesn’t mean it isn’t being said. Some readers are smart enough to read through the symantics…there are more to words than the basic words typed. It is very obvious how many posters stand and the constant denial like this just makes y’all look as crazy as you think LK is.

Beyond semantics there is pragmatics – the part of linguistics where ambiguities are resolved through prior information, interpreting intent of speaker, principles of conversational cooperation, etc.

There is no entailment in the posts in question that LK deserved to be shot (setting aside a few roundly rejected individual specimens). That’s the semantic information that you admit does not support your interpretation. You seem to be asserting, then, that questioning LK’s innocence in the larger conflict carries an implicature that she deserved to be shot. And yet, not only do many, many other posters (a majority perhaps) not interpret other posters’ intent that way, we also have many posters adding “not saying she should have been shot” disclaimers to their posts, to explicitly signal their intent and make it maximally clear that no implicature of justified use of firearms exists in their statements.

That you persist in attributing a more sinister intent to posters who have both implicitly and explicitly signalled that they do not intend to imply that LK deserved to be shot says a whole lot more about your perspective than it does about those other posters.

[x-halt-salute]

@Denali6298

Yes her behavior is reprehensible but railing on about how she plays the victim all the time (which I agree she does) comes off as people wanting her to admit she deserved to get shot or say if she wasn’t such an [edit] she never would have gotten shot. She shouldn’t have gotten shot period.

“If she [weren’t] such an [edit] she never would have gotten shot.” That counterfactual conditional statement may be true. It does not entail, though, that being an [edit] got her shot. You can believe that first statement and still logically believe that “she shouldn’t have gotten shot, period”.

In the real world, LK was an [edit], and she got shot. In some possible alternative worlds, she was an [edit] but didn’t get shot (thanks to a more measured response by MB, or resolution through legal channels earlier, or myriad other imaginable, less catastrophic trajectories for the conflict). In at least one possible [edit] world the shooting happened – the real world shooting is evidence of this. In many (most? all?) possible worlds where LK was never an [edit], the larger conflict that led to the shooting wouldn’t have happened, and LK wouldn’t have gotten shot.

Without having any evidence that suggests MB (a public figure with no prior violent crimes on his record) is a murderous villain with criminal motives unrelated to the housing/harassment/child protective services conflict, it’s entirely possible to believe that in all worlds where LK isn’t an [edit], MB would not have attempted to murder her. And that belief is not incompatible with a belief that MB should not have attempted to murder her.

So yeah. She should’t have gotten shot. But discussing the events that happened and thinking about how such a tragedy came to pass (or thinking counterfactually about ways it might have been prevented) does not entail any malice toward LK or belief that she deserved to be shot.

[TMares]

@RainWeasley

And that is your own problem then. Because me personally, that is not at all what I meant so there is nothing beyond the “semantics”. And I’m kind of sad you see it that way. I always like things you post. But I think you are looking too deeply into it.

Entirely agree with this and your preceding post. All of us read and assess and process with our own perceptions, biases, prejudices, etc in place. There’s not ‘seeing through semantics’ in this case- it’s seeing what you want to see and refusing to be dissuaded or even OPEN to the notion that there’s another way(s) of processing differently.

[eggbutt]

@Denali6298

She shouldn’t have gotten shot period.

Agreed, and perhaps next time she is told to leave someone’s property or perhaps mind her own business, she actually will!!!

[eggbutt]

Since I have grown tired of being accused of victim shaming, let me just go for it!! Lauren had her viscous dog off the leash and outside (after being told by authorities to keep it confined after biting people), and she AND Rob were waiting for Barisone to come up after the interview with CPS. Don’t expect me to ever believe this couple were innocent victims just minding their own business while doing everything in their power to provoke exactly what happened. The real question is what was Lauren’s expectation of her behaviour?? Did she deserve to be shot? I can’t answer that, but I fully support the self defense aspect. For the life of me I can’t imagine being shot however many times and still having the strength to attack Michael, beating him around his head to the point of breaking her cell phone while her dog is chewing on his arm and her lapdog boyfriend pummels Barisone on the ground. Can you explain that to me?

[Denali6298]

@eggbutt

Since I have grown tired of being accused of victim shaming, let me just go for it!! Lauren had her viscous dog off the leash and outside (after being told by authorities to keep it confined after biting people), and she AND Rob were waiting for Barisone to come up after the interview with CPS. Don’t expect me to ever believe this couple were innocent victims just minding their own business while doing everything in their power to provoke exactly what happened. The real question is what was Lauren’s expectation of her behaviour?? Did she deserve to be shot? I can’t answer that, but I fully support the self defense aspect. For the life of me I can’t imagine being shot however many times and still having the strength to attack Michael, beating him around his head to the point of breaking her cell phone while her dog is chewing on his arm and her lapdog boyfriend pummels Barisone on the ground. Can you explain that to me?

Where did any of that information come from?

[eggbutt]

@Denali6298

Where did any of that information come from?

Every bit came from this long thread.

[merrygoround]

Dear me a sticky oozy dog. Quote eggbutt"! Lauren had her viscous dog off the leash and outside (after being told by authorities to " Unquote

Doggone I missed the stickydog in the info.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[ohmyheck]

@x-halt-salute

Beyond semantics there is pragmatics – the part of linguistics where ambiguities are resolved through prior information, interpreting intent of speaker, principles of conversational cooperation, etc.

There is no entailment in the posts in question that LK deserved to be shot (setting aside a few roundly rejected individual specimens). That’s the semantic information that you admit does not support your interpretation. You seem to be asserting, then, that questioning LK’s innocence in the larger conflict carries an implicature that she deserved to be shot. And yet, not only do many, many other posters (a majority perhaps) not interpret other posters’ intent that way, we also have many posters adding “not saying she should have been shot” disclaimers to their posts, to explicitly signal their intent and make it maximally clear that no implicature of justified use of firearms exists in their statements.

That you persist in attributing a more sinister intent to posters who have both implicitly and explicitly signalled that they do not intend to imply that LK deserved to be shot says a whole lot more about your perspective than it does about those other posters.

Sure, but this response also implies a sort of one or the other side of the fence, or black and white if you will, in terms of the intent of the conversation here. I agree with the poster above who said they value a lot of the thoughtful posts. For me those are the ones speculating on the 5Ws and H’s, without endlessly diagnosing certain players with a myriad of mental illnesses or getting vicious in their character deconstructions.

Which brings me to the other obvious theme on this thread made up of some of the 'she didn’t deserve to get shot but ’ agenda seeking crowd who use it as a screen to then follow up with inflated hyperbole squeezed out of unverified or even malicious rumours. And as far as I can tell, all for reasons not fully explained … other than an opportunity for a bit too much gleeful hand rubbing while trashing the victim.

That’s not being acknowledged and I can assure you as a mostly lurker (here) reading from the outside and looking in, it’s as present as any other angle on this thread. No comment on the phenomena itself other than to confirm that yes, it is prominently woven into the dialogue.

PS I know I’m responding to something intended for Jealoushe but it happened to hit on the points I wanted to address.

[ISR]

Reading this thread and the NYT article I started thinking. What if someone was trying to take away the person I hold dearest to me? My mother. My husband. My best friend of 20 years. I would fight. And in a moment of extreme pressure I might do ANYTHING it took to prevent that from happening, anything. You don’t make a call to ICE or CPS without the sole intention of trying to ruin someone’s life. We’ve all seen the news of families being torn apart at the borders, its gut wrenching. It appears she was trying to replicate and inflict that pain and fear. I don’t know how any of her friends can defend those actions, they are inhuman.

I’m not rejoicing that she was shot, but…the chickens have come home to roost.

[Mara]

@merrygoround

Dear me a sticky oozy dog. Quote eggbutt"! Lauren had her viscous dog off the leash and outside (after being told by authorities to " Unquote

Doggone I missed the stickydog in the info.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Any time I see that gaffe I always envision a dog made of Slime!

[tryintogethere]

@trubandloki

I believe it was more like a room, from what I have read here so not sure we can say any of that is facts. They were in the house is a fact. MB was in the barn is a fact.

LK and RG were on one floor, MB and MH were on another, with some shared areas.

[MHM]

@tryintogethere

LK and RG were on one floor, MB and MH were on another, with some shared areas.

Eee. I did not realize there were shared areas. I was thinking they were completely separate units within the house. That would make it even more stressful, if you had to see the person under your own roof throughout the day.

[ladyj79]

If all of your information came from this thread, that’s not really anything to base an opinion on, particularly an opinion that someone was asking to get shot.

Again, insane.