Woman Shot at Barisone Farm

[Bogey2]

@Denali6298

Wow really? Not my experience. I have never not heard a concealed weapons instructor say that. Maybe that’s the difference? I was going for a concealed permit?

Mine is a conceal and I learned you don’t pull a gun on someone unless you intend to use it. As for carrying I mostly do it to and from the range, MA laws are tricky so I got the LTC to be safe. LOL

[BigMama1]

@Denali6298

Pretty sure if the police found evidence of another weapon, his lawyer as well as the judge would have mentioned it in the bail hearing.

Also, normal people don’t carry a gun unless they actually intend to use it. That’s gun safety 101.

In fact the judge specifically mentioned there were NO other weapons.

[Denali6298]

@Bogey2

Mine is a conceal and I learned you don’t pull a gun on someone unless you intend to use it. As for carrying I mostly do it to and from the range, MA laws are tricky so I got the LTC to be safe. LOL

I got mine in WA that goes across 30 states, and had a professor at Central Connecticut State University tell me if you aren’t willing to shoot someone you don’t need a hand gun. But a shot gun to rack and shoot a hole in your ceiling is more than effective. I’m from Connecticut. Step Mom was a Hartford PD detective and the carnage became too much.

[BigMama1]

@clanter

and then there are us who have to deal with insane people who will not go away and understand how this came to fruition

And there are those of us who have found ways to block insane, relentless, abusive people from our lives that didn’t involve shooting them.

[Denali6298]

@BigMama1

In fact the judge specifically mentioned there were NO other weapons.

Exactly

[BigMama1]

@Pony Fixer

There are a lot of reasons why people are more likely to become victims of violent crime.

One of them is to be a terrible, toxic person.
One of them is to be a black or brown person in the US.
One of them is to be a woman in an abusive relationship.
There are many others.

Many of you put LK in that first category. I don’t know her, but if she is as terrible as people say, it probably increases ones chances over the course of their life of becoming a victim of violence. However, that does not mean she “deserves” it any more than any of the other categories.

And before people say, “She could change and not be so terrible”–you have no idea what has made her (or any other person) who she is and act the way she does. People are complicated.

I have no dog in this fight; there are no winners, only losers in this situation. But I had been pushed (and pushed, and pushed) by a toxic human in my life. I would have been more apt to end my life than to shoot that person.

Interesting perspective, which brings up another good question. A lot of people are promoting “pushed and pushed and pushed until he snapped” theory, but didn’t LK and those in the know say this situation boiled up in a very short span of time, just a week or two at most? Not even enough time to start formal eviction proceedings (according to MB’s lawyer at the bail hearing) or get a restraining order? It’s hard for me to reconcile that level of mental anguish after just a few days.

[SonnysMom]

@Denali6298

If it comes down to my and my families safety yes. That is something I would do rather then end up in jail. I’m selfish that way. There is no monetary value I can put on my freedom. So yes, I personally would go to Florida early and explain to the clients why. That’s also why I asked the question of how much the clients saw. I know if I was a client and saw that amount of crazy I’d be gone in a heart beat. The area is not hurting for UL dressage trainers.

Remember this all spiraled downhill in the span of a week give or take a few days. How long do you think that it takes to close up a business, winterize a farm, get health certs for horses because FL is really strict about that, pack supplies for horses, pack clothes for people, make arrangement for the grooms, transfer school records for children? They tried to remove themselves from the situation as best they could in a short period of time. They moved out of the main house to the barn.
Even if they started making arrangements Day 1 I don’t see logistically how they would be able to logistically pack up all of MH, MB and clients horses and get them out in a week or 10 days. That is assuming that they recognized the threat on Day 1 and that LK/RG started at nuclear levels. My guess is that the initially things were tense and escalated over a few days.
Even if they don’t go straight to FL they would need somewhere local to move all the horses except LKs to keep the horses safe and cared for. Or were they supposed to just leave them behind at the farm? You make leaving the farm sound much easier than it really is. Also hindsight is 20/20. If MB knew what the outcome was I can bet he would have made different choices.

Yes people say that if you carry a gun you should be 100% prepared to use it. However I can guarantee there are plenty of people figure if other people know they have a gun is a big deterrent so they won’t have to use it.
Maybe they are thinking that they would be willing to use it if threatened or their family was threatened.

People’s perception of threat is very different even in exactly the same situation. Some people lock up their house like Fort Knox and have alarm systems and guard dogs and the next door neighbor barely remembers to lock their house, no alarms, no guard dogs. Same neighborhood yet 2 different people see the risk of home intruder’s totally differently.

Add stress and sleep deprivation and that may change an individual’s perception of a threat and interfere with that individual’s ability to make a rational decision.

There are a few people on this thread that make everything seem so black and white. None of us lived through those days before the shooting. None of us have all of the facts. None of us know what MB was feeling, thinking in that moment. None of us know what his defense team’s plan is. Yet some posters would lock him up for life without parole without seeing most of the evidence and basing things on very limited information some of which is coming from sources that have been proven to be unreliable. I think there is too much we don’t know including NJ laws to be able to make a judgement on what punishment is appropriate. There is a reason that he is entitled to a trial in front of a jury of his peers where both sides gets to present evidence with a judge presiding.

Yes, I was introduced to MB and watched him teach a lesson on the showgrounds in FL. Did I idolize him? No. It isn’t my personality to idolize anyone. So don’t think that I am defending him because of that.

Do I think that a lot of mistakes were made? Yes. Do I wish this situation had not escalated to the point that somebody got shot? Yes. This whole thing is just such a shame for everybody associated with the farm and their families.

[Denali6298]

@SonnysMom

Remember this all spiraled downhill in the span of a week give or take a few days. How long do you think that it takes to close up a business, winterize a farm, get health certs for horses because FL is really strict about that, pack supplies for horses, pack clothes for people, make arrangement for the grooms, transfer school records for children? They tried to remove themselves from the situation as best they could in a short period of time. They moved out of the main house to the barn.
Even if they started making arrangements Day 1 I don’t see logistically how they would be able to logistically pack up all of MH, MB and clients horses and get them out in a week or 10 days. That is assuming that they recognized the threat on Day 1 and that LK/RG started at nuclear levels. My guess is that the initially things were tense and escalated over a few days.
Even if they don’t go straight to FL they would need somewhere local to move all the horses except LKs to keep the horses safe and cared for. Or were they supposed to just leave them behind at the farm? You make leaving the farm sound much easier than it really is. Also hindsight is 20/20. If MB knew what the outcome was I can bet he would have made different choices.

Yes people say that if you carry a gun you should be 100% prepared to use it. However I can guarantee there are plenty of people figure if other people know they have a gun is a big deterrent so they won’t have to use it.
Maybe they are thinking that they would be willing to use it if threatened or their family was threatened.

People’s perception of threat is very different even in exactly the same situation. Some people lock up their house like Fort Knox and have alarm systems and guard dogs and the next door neighbor barely remembers to lock their house, no alarms, no guard dogs. Same neighborhood yet 2 different people see the risk of home intruder’s totally differently.

Add stress and sleep deprivation and that may change an individual’s perception of a threat and interfere with that individual’s ability to make a rational decision.

There are a few people on this thread that make everything seem so black and white. None of us lived through those days before the shooting. None of us have all of the facts. None of us know what MB was feeling, thinking in that moment. None of us know what his defense team’s plan is. Yet some posters would lock him up for life without parole without seeing most of the evidence and basing things on very limited information some of which is coming from sources that have been proven to be unreliable. I think there is too much we don’t know including NJ laws to be able to make a judgement on what punishment is appropriate. There is a reason that he is entitled to a trial in front of a jury of his peers where both sides gets to present evidence with a judge presiding.

Yes, I was introduced to MB and watched him teach a lesson on the showgrounds in FL. Did I idolize him? No. It isn’t my personality to idolize anyone. So don’t think that I am defending him because of that.

Do I think that a lot of mistakes were made? Yes. Do I wish this situation had not escalated to the point that somebody got shot? Yes. This whole thing is just such a shame for everybody associated with the farm and their families.

Do take note that I said I was selfish and there fore would go straight to f’ this I’m out. Also, I really doubt this went from all happy happy joy joy to a shooting in less than a month. If that’s the case MB is just as nuts as she is.

I don’t tolerate drama. So yes, at the first sign of uncontrollable drama I would have started making moves to leave that would have included decisions.

I think MB thought he could control the drama and realistically couldn’t. Obviously.

[dannyboy]

I suspect what the instructor said was “Don’t carry a gun unless you are willing to use it” Not “Don’t carry a gun unless you intend to use it.” Big difference.

I sometimes carry (yes, I have a license) and while I don’t generally walk out intending to use my gun, I am always willing to use it if the situation warrants.

[MorganSercu]

@BigMama1

Interesting perspective, which brings up another good question. A lot of people are promoting “pushed and pushed and pushed until he snapped” theory, but didn’t LK and those in the know say this situation boiled up in a very short span of time, just a week or two at most? It’s hard for me to reconcile that level of mental anguish after just a few days.

I have no idea how long it took. But let’s flip that around - exactly what was he supposed to do in a matter of days? He has a barn full of horses, employees (who lived on-site? Nearby?), multiple boarders and clients, his furnishings and possessions and to be chased out of his home and off of his property by someone who was asked to leave and refused to do so. The logistics of getting everyone out of there and somewhere else is a nightmare. What are we talking about - 30 horses - more or less?

There are contractual obligations he had to meet, there would be veterinary examinations that would have to be scheduled and happen - he can’t just willy nilly waltz on out and leave. His obligations extend beyond himself and his immediate circle of intimates.

Compare and contrast to Lauren and Robert. Two adults, two or three dogs, 3 of 4 horses on site and multiple offers of places for them to take themselves and their animals when she was online stating that the situation was bad. People even offered to pick her and the animals up and take them to safety. I don’t know if her fiancé was included in the offer, but I am willing to guess he was welcome too.

I will also point out that abusive people threaten their victims’ animals too. How many abused partners refuse to leave because they can’t take their dog or cat to a battered spouse shelter? Now multiply it by large incredibly VALUABLE animals that you don’t want to abandon. Remember - if you abandon them you can also be sued for doing so.

[Jealoushe]

@eggbutt

Unless he didn’t have the gun to begin with. That has yet to be proven. Only LK has said he “whipped out the gun”, “had the gun out to shoot”, “waved the gun around”. There IS the possibility LK and RG had the gun (if the gun actually belonged to RC, no one has verified, nor has information been released regarding where she had the gun if it was hers), and MB was attacked and a struggle ensued during which time LK was shot. It is a perfectly feasible theory at this point in time considering the smoke and mirror versions produced by LK.

Again, they KNEW he would be coming to see them in a rage after CPS left the property. Were they waiting for him with their premeditated victim explanation in hopes of shooting HIM? I know that sounds amazingly far-fetched, but wouldn’t surprise me in the least with her hatred and jealousy of MH.

It is also just as logical to believe after CPS left, MB went to where ever he knew this gun was and decided it would end it that day. WE SIMPLY DO NOT KNOW other than there are many questions unanswered and LK keeps revising her version of events.

Mmmm hmmmmmm

[Denali6298]

@dannyboy

I suspect what the instructor said was “Don’t carry a gun unless you are willing to use it” Not “Don’t carry a gun unless you intend to use it.” Big difference.

I sometimes carry (yes, I have a license) and while I don’t generally walk out intending to use my gun, I am always willing to use it if the situation warrants.

Well yes. That proves my point. No one intendeds to shoot someone. But willing to shoot someone? That’s heavy. Grabbing not your gun? That’s my point. Most Conceal carry people are very comfortable with their guns. Most people in the North East where hand guns are heavily regulated have their own. Someone took not their gun and shot a person! That was the point of my conceal carry comments and firearms class comments. That’s not normal for gun owners.

And no the person said “intend to use it.” He is a firm believer in not owning a weapon such as a hand gun if you can’t fathom shooting it at a person. That’s why we conceal carry right? So if someone taking a class to conceal carry is not willing to shoot a person, no you don’t need to carry. I mean what do you need it for? A sneaky raccoon that’s going to steal your garbage?

[eggbutt]

@Jealoushe

Mmmm hmmmmmm

Tell me @Jealoushe were you there? You are so quick to criticize but offer little to the conversation.

You seem to criticize or comment on every post I make, although I’m not sure why you’ve latched on to me and don’t care. Why is it okay for anyone else to speculate but not me? What exactly is it you want from me? I’ve asked you to move on past my posts rather than posting your immature comments, yet you continue.

There are many of us either posting or lurking on this thread who know some or all of the parties involved. We have an active interest in their well being and defense. What about you? Do you know any of these folks or are you projecting your past personal experiences on this situation and perhaps I remind you of someone who you feels wronged you during your experience. I’m sorry for whatever happened to you and I understand your past reflects your thoughts in this matter, just as mine do. The difference is I actually know the people involved.

[trubandloki]

@dannyboy

I suspect what the instructor said was “Don’t carry a gun unless you are willing to use it” Not “Don’t carry a gun unless you intend to use it.” Big difference.

Thank you Dannyboy, that is how it was taught at the safety course I took too.

Huge difference between willing and intend.

[Denali6298]

@trubandloki

Thank you Dannyboy, that is how it was taught at the safety course I took too.

Huge difference between willing and intend.

But not what was said at mine who dannyboy was commenting on.

[Denali6298]

@eggbutt

Tell me @Jealoushe were you there? You are so quick to criticize but offer little to the conversation.

You seem to criticize or comment on every post I make, although I’m not sure why you’ve latched on to me and don’t care. Why is it okay for anyone else to speculate but not me? What exactly is it you want from me? I’ve asked you to move on past my posts rather than posting your immature comments, yet you continue.

There are many of us either posting or lurking on this thread who know some or all of the parties involved. We have an active interest in their well being and defense. What about you? Do you know any of these folks or are you projecting your past personal experiences on this situation and perhaps I remind you of someone who you feels wronged you during your experience. I’m sorry for whatever happened to you and I understand your past reflects your thoughts in this matter, just as mine do. The difference is I actually know the people involved.

Were you there? You seem to post like your were.

[clanter]

@BigMama1

And there are those of us who have found ways to block insane, relentless, abusive people from our lives that didn’t involve shooting them.

the victim in this incident did every thing she could to escalate the pressure to point of failure. …what was she expecting to accomplish other than break a person, which she did. She did not deserve to shot but appears she did everything in her power to earn it as her targeted victim could not get away.

[Denali6298]

@eggbutt

Tell me @Jealoushe were you there? You are so quick to criticize but offer little to the conversation.

You seem to criticize or comment on every post I make, although I’m not sure why you’ve latched on to me and don’t care. Why is it okay for anyone else to speculate but not me? What exactly is it you want from me? I’ve asked you to move on past my posts rather than posting your immature comments, yet you continue.

There are many of us either posting or lurking on this thread who know some or all of the parties involved. We have an active interest in their well being and defense. What about you? Do you know any of these folks or are you projecting your past personal experiences on this situation and perhaps I remind you of someone who you feels wronged you during your experience. I’m sorry for whatever happened to you and I understand your past reflects your thoughts in this matter, just as mine do. The difference is I actually know the people involved.

You post your speculation as fact. You weren’t there either.

[SonnysMom]

@Denali6298

Do take note that I said I was selfish and there fore would go straight to f’ this I’m out. Also, I really doubt this went from all happy happy joy joy to a shooting in less than a month. If that’s the case MB is just as nuts as she is.

I don’t tolerate drama. So yes, at the first sign of uncontrollable drama I would have started making moves to leave that would have included decisions.

I think MB thought he could control the drama and realistically couldn’t. Obviously.

Nice to know you are selfish enough to walk away from your horses and that you can walk away from your livelihood and your home on short notice. Remember he tried to distance himself from LK. He moved into his barn. Yes it is a nice barn but it isn’t his home. For most people we our first thought isn’t to move out of our home, abandon our animals and quit our job just because of “drama” or disagreement. At what point did it become uncontrolled drama?

Why does that make MB as nuts as she is? LK is the one with an apparent history of harassment, multiple legal charges, a history of lies, heck she actually claims to have multiple personalities. MB seems to have none of that history. Yes I know most of the legal charges were dropped. But her father is a lawyer, they have money so it would not surprise me if there were pay-offs to get people to drop charges or not cooperate with authorities. I don’t know about you but I have made it to age 51 without any legal charges other than a speeding ticket. It seems like she has a larger than average number.

There are plenty of people on this thread and other threads on COTH that have indicated that dealing with a person with certain types of borderline personality disorders and sociopathic tendencies can hide it well. But when they are done with you it is all out war. It is easy to be blindsided by individuals like this.

Obviously it wasn’t working out or he wouldn’t have asked her to leave. There can be a lot of benign reasons he could have wanted them to leave. Maybe she decided to not be a training client anymore and wanted to only be a boarder. Many high end barns don’t offer boarding and only offer training. If the agreement was that she could live there while training there and she was no longer going to be training there then the agreement has changed. Maybe he wanted more of his stalls for sales horses or horses for MH to compete. Maybe the renovations by fiancee were taking too long. It doesn’t mean there was any amount of “drama” prior. My guess is the being asked to leave triggered all out war on her part and she was the one that escalated it quickly.

Maybe he was starting to see a bit a drama and that is why he asked her to leave so he didn’t have to deal with it. Moving out to the barn was likely a step in trying to avoid the drama. I am not sure he had many choices other than to ask her to leave and when she wouldn’t leave start the legal eviction process. Most people don’t think that asking to terminate a boarding/business arrangement will result is such vitriol and over the top reaction. Sane people tend to see things from a sane point of view and cannot imagine how far somebody that isn’t mentally stable will take things. Once again it appears that LK has that pattern anti-social behaviors and MB does not.

[eggbutt]

@Denali6298

You post your speculation as fact. You weren’t there either.

Wow. What a revelation. My post CLEARLY says it is speculation. What is it about the words “theory” and “possibility” that elludes you? Oh, I get it…you simply skimmed the posts and saw @Jealoushe’s highlighted portion and ran with it as fact. OMG. Ya’ll are truly amazing control freaks.

I fully understand there is a well-established group of pot stirrers on the CoTH forums who delight in their antics toward other posters. Go for it.