Oh, this is a good idea
Equipe is made in Italy.
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Saddle fit is a real rabbit hole. I agree that there is a group of fitters who believe the foam panels are evil. But if you look at some of the pros, some of our most decorated professionals with gold medals, some of them are riding in a saddle where the pommel is right on the withers. No wither clearance at all. No one would need to run a hand under the panel to know that this saddle doesn’t fit. I think even our best professionals miss important elements of saddle fit and we can’t just assume that because they’re successful, the horses’ backs are probably fine. These animals can put up with a lot they might not need to.
I’ve had my vet tell me that some professionals get sponsored by a saddle company and will know it doesn’t fit their horses and try to send saddles out to wool flockers to try to get the panels to solve what is really a problem with the tree.
I think there are foam panels that can work for horses. I prefer wool personally, and have a Renaissance that I love. I highly recommend working with Cindy at DFW tack, she is super knowledgeable. I also really prefer to buy used bc I’ve been burned so often on custom saddles.
But really I think the tree is the thing that needs to fit.
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Ah my mistake.
I’m going to copy my response to a similar post from August. I’ll add that I ride at a CWD sponsored barn and my CWD is at a reseller as I’ve purchased 2 new Stubbens (different model for each horse) that are a MUCH better fit for both my OTTB and my warmblood.
I have been down saddle rabbit hole hell for about 5 years. Maybe more? I’ve bought Antares, Beval, CWD, Loxley and Stubben. I’ve used an independent fitter that is certified by the British Society of Master Saddlers as well as about 5 other reps that were associated with a variety of brands. I have a warmblood and a thoroughbred, both I’ve owned since they were babies (6 months and exactly 3 years). Both have had soundness issues that were exacerbated if not caused by poor tack fit (one is 11 and the other 9 now).
Based on experience and research now I won’t buy another foam flocked saddle. I won’t buy point billets (most of the French brands have point billets) unless I have a fat pony with no withers (which it turns out I might; 3yo Chincoteague Pony). And I want long tree points and a tree that fits my horse, and VERY few brands use long tree points because it makes the saddle far less “adjustable”. If a brand makes one or two tree size, that tells me they don’t care that much about fitting the horse. NO tree can fit a shark finned thoroughbred and a flabby warmblood hunter. Both of my horses are now in wool flocked saddles with long tree points and no point billets and both my veterinarian and bodyworker have commented how great their backs look and feel. It has been a helluva journey.
I highly recommend the Noelle Floyd Equestrian Voices podcast episodes (I think they were in the fall of 2022) about saddle fitting. I have learned a TON from that fitter and the resources she recommends. And my husband thinks I’m opening a book store with books about saddle fitting. It is frustrating how difficult it is to find information about fitting saddles (and bits and bridles for that matter) that isn’t provided by someone trying to sell you a saddle. I just don’t believe that people with a vested interest in selling something can be truly objective.
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Are you riding in monoflaps? I’ve never seen a French jumping saddle with a point billet. I currently own saddles from 3 different French brands, none of which have a point billet.
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Which books do you recommend?
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I should have clarified, but it was a copy/paste. Most dressage saddles have point billets.
Just just a word of caution with the French saddles, as I am sure you already know, they are very hard to deal with if something goes wrong. As a person right now experience this with Butet, I don’t want to see anyone get stuck like I am. I feeling totally backed into a corner and feel like I have to spend almost $10,000 on a saddle to get something for my horse.
The “fit guarantee” for Butet is kind of garbage. I had the Butet rep out in February to fit my horse for a saddle. The rep gave me some suggestions but only brought one saddle for me to try which was the same as my current one just a standard tree vs a wide tree. I asked about the 2 other options and the rep gave me their opinion. I finally settled on a saddle but when it arrived in JULY, it didn’t fit. It was sent out for some panel modifications in August and got it back in September. The saddle STILL didn’t fit and I had an independent saddle fitter out who told me that the saddle has wrong shaped tree for my horse.
Butet is ONLY willing to work on the saddle I purchased and ONLY willing to adjust the panels free of charge. The independent saddle fitter wants to see my horse and I in a different tree and Butet has every so kindly offered - huge sarcasm there - that I can indeed get a different saddle, but I would be required to pay what I feel to be a very hefty bill! I haven’t even had the saddle in my possession for 3 months.
So, in short, make sure, a MILLION percent sure, that the tree is the correct tree for your horse before falling for the fit guarantee that Butet has
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Yes. Good advice for every semi custom brand.
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Yikes! That’s terrible. Sadly, many brand reps either aren’t educated enough to understand whether their saddle fits your horse or are more concerned with the sale. French saddles typically have one tree shape and customize the fit through the panels. As you’ve learned, if the tree is the wrong shape, you can’t (always) fit it through panel modifications.
I hope you find something that works for you at a fair price. (And maybe sell the Butet on?)
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I just announced for a big $50,000 hunter Derby up here in Canada……let me put your mind at ease that what brand of saddle does not enter the judges mind (nor do helmets just better not be pink 
)….unless they were to put you in the wrong position thus affecting how your horse gos! And when I was in the hunters (TBIRD etc) I was in a Prestige, now I’m in a Black Country Ricochet….buy what fits not what’s trendy, judges honestly don’t care!
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I honestly don’t think people are that worried what a judge thinks. They’re more uncomfortable about what the trainer and their peers in the barn think. The weird peer pressure in a barn and the countless saddle unboxing videos have convinced a lot of people to buy saddles that don’t fit their horses. Even folks who don’t show feel the effects of that.
I wish more people could be as open minded as you are Eclipse, I think a lot of horses would go better if they did.
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You’re probably right.,thanks for thinking I’m Open minded, although its all my trainers….she refuses to take sponsors as she doesn’t want to advertise just one product or make everyone go in the same tack! Also I’ve never had the $$$ to show a ton, just enough to do a few large shows over the past 20 plus years Lol
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Right now I am working through a couple by Elwyn Hartley Edwards (side note they are pretty old). I’m also reading more about physiology and conformation. Currently reading Biomechanics and Physical Training of the Horse by Jean-Marie Denoix. It is SUPER dry, but very informative.
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Thanks, I hope to find something. I am for sure selling the Butet on!
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You can probably skip the trainer and go right to their peers.
Between everyone at our barn we have representation from just about all the major French brands as well as Stubben, Tad Coffin, County, and other high-quality makes. Anyone who is shopping can sit in pretty much anything without having to call the rep. But if you ask the barn kids what they want they will say CWD. One of our girls (who is a real sweetheart but of an age where she’s becoming aware of the horse show Instagram pressure) tried an Antares and a CWD and said she didn’t want to keep the Antares because she “wanted a CWD.”
I don’t remember that brand of peer pressure when I was a kid. It was helmets during my junior years. I did an interview with a college team and was told I would need a new helmet and breeches to show with the team because “all our riders wear Tailored Sportsmans and GPAs.” At least that’s cheaper peer pressure than a saddle.
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Tween girls are often so insecure and competitive that they get very superstitious about brands or fads. These girls are likely like this about sneakers jeans lip gloss etc. I know we were. In the 1970s.
While it’s nice to stay young at heart, there’s parts of being 14 that it’s better to lose.
At 14 you really do think you are being judged from every angle and have no idea if it’s competence, skills, personality, talent, or consumer objects that are going to lead to success. And you are often unsure if success means doing better than other peers, or just being exactly the same so they accept you.
Yay for being an adult that understands value and functionality as it relates to success in a specific goal
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What a frustrating story; I’m sorry you’re going through this. I have heard so many stories like this, especially from the French brands. It’s definitely made me never want to order a “custom” saddle, and this is the main reason I’m really looking to find a pre-owned saddle that works for both my horse and myself.
Do you happen to know how many different tree shapes Butet offers?
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As @greysfordays said, it’s not really the judges I’m concerned about. I trust judges not to take the trendiness of my tack into account, if they can even see it. It’s really more about what’s seen as the “it brands” by other riders and trainers. That being said, I care but I don’t care, and I’m 100% committed to finding a saddle that’s the right fit for my horse, whether it’s trendy or not.
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