Wool vs. foam panels, high end saddles, and repaneling

[Scribbler]

@Orbit_Orange

@eclipse

I just announced for a big $50,000 hunter Derby up here in Canada……let me put your mind at ease that what brand of saddle does not enter the judges mind (nor do helmets just better not be pink )….unless they were to put you in the wrong position thus affecting how your horse gos! And when I was in the hunters (TBIRD etc) I was in a Prestige, now I’m in a Black Country Ricochet….buy what fits not what’s trendy, judges honestly don’t care!

As @greysfordays said, it’s not really the judges I’m concerned about. I trust judges not to take the trendiness of my tack into account, if they can even see it. It’s really more about what’s seen as the “it brands” by other riders and trainers. That being said, I care but I don’t care, and I’m 100% committed to finding a saddle that’s the right fit for my horse, whether it’s trendy or not.

Why on earth would you care about what other riders or trainers thought about your saddle? As long as your trainer agrees with your fitter that it’s a good match, why do you care? Typically the trainer can give the best input as to how it fits you and affects your seat, and an independent saddle fitter can verify it fits your horse.

Why on earth would you care about what other riders or trainers thought about your gear? As long as it is clean safe and appropriate? What kind of emotional supply are you trying to get from the people with whom you are in direct competition for ribbons? Their opinion simply does not matter.

If you are between the ages of 11 and 15 I will encourage you to grow up fast and get a grip on what matters in life.

If you are over 15, or indeed an adult, it’s high time you stopped channelling your inner middle school insecure wannabe mean girl whatever and and grew up.

I’m being harsh on purpose because competing with horses is a sport. You go out to do your best and try to win ribbons over other people. The way you do a sport is get in your own head where you aren’t continually undermining yourself by second guessing your gear and self on purely superficial or consumerist grounds. I know that’s how young women are socialized to think and behave. It’s a way society keeps them dependent and powerless.

No one ever won a marathon worrying do these shorts make my ass look big, and are my sneakers the cool color of the week on YouTube

[Such_Life]

I was told, but who knows how true, that each of the different seat depths have a different tree shape. So maybe 4? I really dont know anymore however

[NaturallyHappy]

I’ve been told that, as well.

[Scribbler]

@Such_Life

I was told, but who knows how true, that each of the different seat depths have a different tree shape. So maybe 4? I really dont know anymore however

Each seat depth is going to logically have it’s own tree to accomodate the seat configuration.

That does not mean that each of these trees also fits the horse differently. It’s possible to have 4 different trees for 4 different seats that all have the exact same front to back rocker curve, side to side drape, and either gullet options. The differences face the rider, not the horse.

Indeed I’d say that’s likely.

Why would you create a saddle range where everyone say with a “curvy backed” horse had to buy a deep seat and everyone with a broad withered horse who needed a hoop tree had to buy a forward seat etc etc? That would not exactly please customers who are buying for their own comfort and security in the tack.

[dynamite0319]

If you go to the Butet site and search for “tree” you get zero results. This, IMO, is a giant red flag. I agree with @Such_Life, the tree may vary for seat depths, but that is likely the only variation. A Butet rep should know the answer to this question.

[pony_baloney]

I don’t see why the brand of saddle matters. If you’re sitting on it, who can tell?

[Orbit_Orange]

You can truly rest assured that I’m prioritizing the right things in my saddle search–my horse’s fit and comfort above all else. Then my own fit and comfort. After that the quality and aesthetics of the saddle. My initial thought, before I started looking or researching, was that I wanted an upscale French brand, for several reasons: I’ve ridden in those saddles and liked them; they are nice, made of good leather and aesthetically pleasing; and there are a fair number of them available on the second hand market, so I was hopeful that I would be able to find one that fit me and my horse second hand for a reasonable price. After researching some more and talking with an independent saddle fitter, I’ve decided against some of these brands as I would prefer wool panels, and I’ve decided that those with only one tree shape are not prioritizing fit and comfort of the horse. I’m still considering Butet as they will do wool panels and have several tree shapes, and considering other brands, which is why I asked for experiences with foam to wool conversion and other brands. The suggestions, opinions, and experiences shared on this thread have been helpful.

I’m being completely open and honest in admitting that having a “trendy” brand, and what others think, is a factor I’ve thought about. It doesn’t mean that I’m choosing a saddle based on that–I’m not. It also doesn’t mean that I’m a teen girl–I’m not. Really what’s more important to me than having a specific popular brand is the leather quality and aesthetics of the saddle, which I think does correlate with what’s trendy. And the fact that I have liked the feel of these saddles, which I think is a big part of why they’re currently trendy. But I do think it’s part of human nature to care what other humans think. That’s why luxury brands exist: cars, watches, bags, shoes. I know a lot of people who have or covet Louis Vuitton or Hermes bags, or expensive shoes. I don’t care as much about those things, but I don’t begrudge anyone who does, and I like other nice things including high quality tack. I’ve been particularly interested in hearing about brands that have a French look and feel and nice leather options but offer more tree options and wool flocked panels. If I can find something like that in my price range, great. If not, I’ll get something that works for my horse and me even if the leather is ugly and even if it is not trendy.

[Orbit_Orange]

The Butet rep I’ve talked with says that they have three basic tree shapes: standard, medium wide, and extra wide. But like @Such_Life and @NaturallyHappy have been told, he also said that the seat depth affects the way the tree fits. It seems a little confusing and isn’t intuitive to me that the seat depth should affect the way the tree fits the horse–it seems like they should be able to separate those two factors which relate to the top and bottom of the tree. But it seems like this is what we have all been told.

[NaturallyHappy]

I’m not sure, but I think the deeper seat has a bigger curve to it.

[TheJenners]

@Bristol_Bay

crotch-hostile.

Another poster said “coochie wa-wa killer” and that has stuck with me

[Orbit_Orange]

That’s what I was told as well

[TheJenners]

@Orbit_Orange

That being said, I care but I don’t care, and I’m 100% committed to finding a saddle that’s the right fit for my horse, whether it’s trendy or not.

I totally understand where you are coming from. I miss my Dev Oldara, it was looooovely and comfy but I had an independent fitter out when my gelding started bucking. Not only was it not a good fit for him (no big whoop) but she showed me it was actually crooked. Once seen couldn’t be unseen. Explained my one sidedness too.

I have two Hastilows and a Fairfax, both are English made, wool flocked, and adjustable. My horses go GREAT in them. I think they are butt ass ugly and definitely not trendy, but my thighs and rump cover most of them… Do I drool over the CWDs and Devoucouxs? Yes. Sigh. Oh well.

[Bogie]

I guess I’ve never gotten over the price tags on the French saddles. Sure, they’re nice, but 8K+ nice? That’s more than many of my horses have cost . Add to that I like the adjustability of wool flocked panels and I’ve grown to like the English and German brands.

I am lucky to have worked with an excellent saddle fitter for many years who showed me how even small changes can make a horse more comfortable and improve the rider’s balance.

[Scribbler]

@Bogie

I guess I’ve never gotten over the price tags on the French saddles. Sure, they’re nice, but 8K+ nice? That’s more than many of my horses have cost . Add to that I like the adjustability of wool flocked panels and I’ve grown to like the English and German brands.

I am lucky to have worked with an excellent saddle fitter for many years who showed me how even small changes can make a horse more comfortable and improve the rider’s balance.

Also that thing grippy calfskin leather on the French foam saddles is fragile and can wear holes that can’t be easily fixed in a way you never see in traditional saddles.

[Bogie]

@Scribbler

Also that thing grippy calfskin leather on the French foam saddles is fragile and can wear holes that can’t be easily fixed in a way you never see in traditional saddles.

Yeah, another reason not to spend that much $$. I’ve never worn a hole in any of my saddles, even the ones I bought used and rode in for many years.

[fivestrideline]

My favorite saddle EVER was a bullet proof early 2000s CWD. That thing put me in a perfect position and survived horse shows in the rain, slight neglect from teen me, and plenty of unwise clothing choices. I sold it when it became clear that my taste in horses is “couch with legs”, and the tree was never going to fit anything like that. I have been chasing the comfort of that saddle ever since, but I think the features that make them so perfect for the rider are the ones that make them TERRIBLE for a lot of horses.

[Mouse_amp_Bay]

If you want a comfortable saddle, try the Harry Dabbs. Everyone who has sat on it is blown away by how comfortable it is - none of my other saddles get that level of compliments! And exceptionally comfortable for the horse as well, I think.

[ElementFarm]

I love the feel and ride from the French saddles.
I do know lots of horror stories about them not fitting the horses they were purchased for, and I think the primary cause is a bad fitter, but there are some horses that just aren’t going to work in the tree shape, no matter how good the fitter is and how the panels are set up.

I am lucky enough to have had success getting some of my foam panels converted to wool.
I had an older Devoucoux that I bought used, and it fit me great, but sadly, the seller included a photo of the flap stamp, and neglected to mention it had been modified (by Devoucoux) and so the stamp was not indicative of the configuration. With nothing to lose, I sent it off to some saddler in the Midwest, and he converted it for me. He did good work, and was able to repanel it so there was plenty of room for adequate wool. I’m still using that saddle to this day, and get it checked, with additional flocking added as needed, twice a year.
I had a beloved CWD (that I got from a rep, who did a great job finding a saddle for my tough-to-fit horse, since sold) that was getting older, and started to sound funny. I had a German brand rep (local to the area with good rep and stated willingness to work with other brands) come evaluate it. She said the tree was broken and I should throw it away. I couldn’t bear to, thought maybe I’d use it as a lunging saddle for starting babies or something, and then when I had a different brand-agnostic rep come out, had her take a look, just for kicks. She assessed it just had a popped rivet and proceeded to take apart the saddle to check. yup–bad rivet. That saddle went off to her master saddler and was also converted to wool. That saddle is now in my daily rotation as well, and going strong.
I also had an old Tad Coffin converted when the original foam broke down and literally disintegrated.
So, I have a few French saddles that still have their original foam, and if they fit the horse, I actually prefer that, because I know it’s not going to shift, pack, compress, etc as I use it. But if a saddle needs significant work anyway, and the panels are going to be replaced for other reasons and/or the foam has broken down, then I’m happy to convert to wool to give my beloved saddles another few years of use.
Converting foam to wool does seem to make them fit a little ‘narrower’ than the original version. And I do have my wool-flocked saddles checked/re-fit twice a year, which is a nuisance.
But I do love the French saddles, and every time I buy or ride in something else, I actively dislike it. I’ve had/sold on a County, prestige, a few stubbens, and a Trilogy (dressage). I’ve not owned an Amerigo yet, but would be interested to try based on others’ feedback.

Good Luck!

[spacytracy]

All my friends in the Crosby PDN and me in my Kincaid. Sorry to all the lesson horses I tortured.

[Annie10]

@Bristol_Bay

I would just add that there are custom saddle nightmare stories about many brands of saddles. Just look at the dressage forum and those are all wool flocked saddles.

I have had two French custom saddles. One fit my horse, the other never did despite two trips back to the saddle shop in Florida, and both of them were crotch-hostile. I sold them both at a loss of a few grand. (One of them bought by a kid in my barn who loves it.)

I ended up with a CWD that I bought used. It fits me and my horse. I can ride without feeling attacked from below.

The point is to buy a used saddle you can try first. I would even warn against buying a new one just like the one you tried and loved because horror stories abound about that as well.

Saddle reps will tell you the saddle will feel comfortable once it’s broken in. Don’t believe them.

I’m sorry but this post has me rotflmao…
I know it wasnt funny and I’m sure very uncomfortable but your turn of phrase is absolutely hilarious