Working with unhandled, 8 month old filly

Everyone always has their own opinion.

I disagree with the other posters who say you don’t need to get a halter on her. One of the first things TIP mustang trainers do is work toward haltering so they can then work on leading. I know you said you don’t like videos but there are some great videos of trainers haltering mustangs. I don’t think it’s about getting kicked, it’s more about having some control and teaching them that they can be with you and they aren’t going to get hurt.

Heck, I wish my BLM mustang was a little more skittish around people he thinks people ARE THE BEST and is a little too snuggly if you know what I mean.

Getting that halter on has been a 100% turn around. My filly is so quick to cut , spin and run if she doesn’t want to be touched so now that she knows she doesn’t have that option, she is more receptive to handling. Oddly, her biggest protest was getting too close to her face. She would spin and run or get in a corner with her butt to you. Now that she is haltered and will give a few steps forward and backwards, she LOVES having her head scratched. It does help that she is shedding and wants that hair off too! I love this journey.

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I wanted to touch base with you again since you have such good info on young horses too. My filly really started progressing well as soon as we had a confined space to work in. (I have since learned that her dam was extremely hard to handle too, so that makes sense.) I spent the past 2 years getting her ready for shoeing, training, lunging etc and her trust in me allows her to learn and accept things quickly so now we have a new problem. When I scheduled her for trimming and shoes, I could pick up and clean out all feet. However, the shoer came and I was surprised how strong and aggressively he grabbed her hind leg, knowing she is sensitive and her first shoes. Since then, she wont allow anyone but me to pick up her hind feet. I have roped her legs, pulled, tugged, etc with no problem but it looks like Im the only one she is going to let work with her back feet, Front feet are OK. She’s now 3 and has been at the trainer for 60 days to break and he says she sensitive with her hindquarters and they did about a month of groud driving before riding her the first time. He says she does like to buck when she is saddled. That was a month ago and I haven’t spoken with him since. Im kinda of disappointed she may be too tough for me to enjoy. Do your youngsters ever show this kind of hard to handle behavior? And do they mature out of it with time?

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A month without communication? I’d be there tomorrow. That’s a really bad sign. A get trainers are busy but there’s no excuse for radio silence.

Personally, I don’t think a horse that won’t let others handle their back feet have the confidence and trust to be ground driving. Bucking when saddling really is a red flag that your horse is overwhelmed. We know so much more than we used to and there’s no reason for a horse to buck it out or have ongoing saddling concern. This trainer sounds like they are instilling problems rather than solving them.

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I was just talking to a specific person, here, EightPondFarm. I have worked with this trainer for 30 years and he trains World show horses. He has 3 brothers and their father training and I would trust them with any of my horses. I think we may be on two different planes as for as conversation goes.

Typically people use the private message feature when they want to talk to a specific person. It is unusual to bump up a two year old public thread to solicit input from a single person. Best of luck.

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@eightpondfarm tagged her for you, maybe she will see.

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ok, i see.
I can only speak about my mustangs. All of my domestic horses are too easy.
When these wild (feral) horses come, they are older than your 2 yr old was when you got her and they have all had zero input from handlers/trainers etc. So whatever happens to them i have personally done and know what has occurred. And when i have a misstep, i see a reaction and i backtrack and begin again differently. Always gradually, always trying to allow the horse to escape or stop or back out if they feel like it. I reward all incremental attempts toward what i am asking. I will quietly give verbal encouragement when i think they’re ‘thinking about it’. There is SO MUCH praise and food rewards in my training i don’t think i can related it to what’s going on with your young horse. I don’t restrain. I ask. and i praise compliance.

Recently i had a 6yr old mustang that was progressing steadily. I had a saddle on him and he stood nicely, would take a few steps forward and i could lead him in the short breezeway in the barn. When i opened the gate to lead him out into the corral he tore past me and went on a big ole buckaroooooo. With the lead rope occasionally getting stepped on on stopping him dead in his tracks. What i did was approach quietly with a calming voice and take off the (synthetic lightweight english saddle) that was hanging under his belly. And then i took off his halter. And then i started all over. From the very beginning. From touching him with a string. From touching him with a rope halter. From putting the halter on then back off immediately. And now, we are still at the stage where i am leading him one or two steps, That’s where we are at. Just right there. Because somewhere along the line, i skipped a step. Somewhere along the line i rushed things. He wasn’t ready.

About feet and farrier…
My horses learn feet at liberty. They are not haltered. I pick up each foot and tap … When i can tap each foot 25 times at liberty i’m ready to introduce them to the farrier.

All he does the first time is clip a bit at each front … and he will pick up the rear hooves IF the horse lets him. If the horse doesn’t let him, he will rub gently down the horse’s leg and just touch the hoof. When the horse raises it reflexively he praises and DONE. He’s done til next time. I have two mustangs that actually need trims regularly. (all the rest of them chip them down in the creek rocks). And these two can be field trimmed… We drive out and find the herd, i collect into a halter and lead and bring then each in turn and let them eat some alfalfa out of the gator while farrier trims. Then they get a carrot. They actually beam at the special treatment.

In your case? I don’t know what to say. All i can do is tell you what i do. I don’t ground drive each horse before getting on them. A few i have. It’s sort of a case-by-case basis for me. I don’t have a formula i can share. How my horses, how ALL my animals work for me is that they want to work with me. We have a relationship and they want, actually want! to please me. And it’s mutual. I want them to be happy. It’s a different kind of thing than me wanting to produce a safe mount.

and if you PM me i will read it and respond and no one else will be bothered by my own personal training bs…lol

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IMO, one of the major benefits to posting on a public board is the wide variety of knowledge and experiences you have at your fingertips. A lot of it will be very good, a lot of it will be pretty good, and some of it will be less-than-good. Most of the info that’s truly bad will be countered by better info so if you read, you’ll know what to ignore. And there are some people who have very strong personal opinions but again, they’re easy to either politely deflect or ignore if you don’t like them.

There are a lot of different training methods and philosophies that work, and even good methods that work on most horses won’t be the best method at all horses. IMO, it’s great to be able to tap into as many possible methods as possible, then see which I’m able to do competently and which work for my personal horses. And personally, if I run into tangents or people disagreeing with me, that’s just more opportunity to learn. (Even if the only thing I’m learning is how to tactfully deal with rude people.)

@eightpondfarm, I really enjoy reading about how you train your mustangs so please keep sharing. (Pics are always appreciated! :smile:)

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Ok. I’m their human. With me, they are at ease and trusting. The horse in this photo is Steve. I ride him bareback. (an exception to my “no bareback!” rule about horse spines…because he has a big sunken place in his side where ribs got kicked in -and healed pretty well, BUT saddles abrade that area)… So anyway, i ride him…and here he is with the first ‘other person’ he has met…after about a half hour sitting in a chair feeding bits of carrot. So, how a horse is with YOU is not what you should ever expect him to be with other people.

Here’s Steve. I tried five different types of saddle on him that day. not one worked … even my leg on him hits him wrong on that side. Poor fellow…

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Thank you! Steve is gorgeous and that’s a beautiful picture of him and the new person. He’s incredibly expressive and you can really see the tentative trust in his expression.

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Is this the trainers farrier? Who has been trimming her for the previous 2 years? I am guessing she was fine for them?

JMPO but I would be contacting the trainer and I would get out there to watch( frequently) how they handle/ work with the horse and how she is under saddle. Just because a trainer has done well in the past doesn’t mean their way fits all horses.

Trainer may not be a good fit for this particular horse. No fault on their part.

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Thank you for the help. I forget to answer the posts but do get the messages! Soooo, she is home from 4 months of training and going to take a few weeks to rest and get some weight back on. We tried saddling up with my Tucker saddle but since it’s difference from the trainers, this is our new issue. I’m going to give Synchill a try so I can set up for success with each new session now that she is home. She definitely has the sensitivity I see in so many mustang type horses, yet she isn’t a bucker or a kicker by nature and loves being groomed etc. Each new horse teaches us something different and boy have I learned a bunch of new techniques from my trainer.