Would you breed to a draft cross?

[classicsporthorses]

I just had to post here b/c I own an a draft cross stallion. I put him on the ground and he comes from good legendary Percheron lines (On top).

He’s an F1 cross (Percheron/TB). I am not the only one who now only thinks he’s amazing but he has always stamped his get with great temperment and athletic ability, plus they are all even tempered and people pleasers. I have raised him with geldings and he’s low man in his pasture not some fire breathing stallion.

I also have owned, he’s now deceased, also a wonderfully bred, great temperment dutch stallion. Both stallions have bred my mares and outside mares.

Neither of my stallions have produced duds BUT I have been very upfront and honest to the mare owners as to which stallion would be a better cross. There are horribly bred draft crosses AND horribly bred warmbloods out there on the market. If you, meaning anyone, takes the time to look at the history of our now hip warmblood breeds, they too started from originally breeding a heavier boned horse with a lighter boned horse. Also our ancestors in Europe were careful who was bred to whom for the most part, making the modern named wb ‘breeds’ we see today-Hanovarian, Holsteiner etc-those are places folks where these horses originalted.

Often sadly there is a bias against draft crosses and full drafts and riding horses. A good horse is a good horse period. I have some very well bred WB mares, I have not and will not ever breed them to my Percheron/TB stallion-it’s not a good cross. They were only bred to my dutch stallion. My Perch/TB stallion has however bred WB, TB and even an Appyx mare with great results. I would take my stallion any day over some of the warmblood stallions I see out there being promoted.

[siegi_b]

I think a lot of the posters here tend to forget that the question was about a specific draft cross stallion and there was even a video link to him. So it’s not that we “snooty” breeders condemn breeding to drafts, we’re just beeing “snooty” about this particular fellow who doesn’t have a whole lot going for him.

Just saying…

[Justa_Bob]

[QUOTE=siegi b.;6767957]
I think a lot of the posters here tend to forget that the question was about a specific draft cross stallion and there was even a video link to him. So it’s not that we “snooty” breeders condemn breeding to drafts, we’re just beeing “snooty” about this particular fellow who doesn’t have a whole lot going for him.

Just saying…[/QUOTE]

And said horse’s pedigree is known to be mis-represented by the owner/breeder and the OP that started the discussion is now believed to be the very same mis-represented stallion’s owner.

This thread is not a discussion of ALL draft crosses - but a warning about the horse in question and an interesting discussion of breeding draft crosses.

Thanks to all those breeders who have shared their knowledge and breeding standards.

[pinecone]

I think a lot of the posters here tend to forget that the question was about a specific draft cross stallion and there was even a video link to him. So it’s not that we “snooty” breeders condemn breeding to drafts, we’re just beeing “snooty” about this particular fellow who doesn’t have a whole lot going for him.

Just saying…

This.

The title of this thread is probably misleading because the OP titled the thread “would you breed to a draft cross?” when she was really asking about a specific draft cross stallion. The negative responses are about the draft/paint stallion in the original post, it’s not negativity about breeding to drafts or draft crosses in general.

I don’t see this thread as bashing draft crosses. I see people saying the OP’s draft/Paint stallion isn’t breeding quality, but that’s not people being “snooty” it’s people being honest.

[Forte]

If making responsible breeding decisions to breed only the best quality animals, in terms of pedigree, temperament, conformation and movement (regardless of breed) makes me snooty, then I am proud to be snooty. They are so many unwanted horses out there, I see no reason to breed any mare that I wouldn’t be happy to have an exact clone of.

[QUOTE=mbm;6767394]
Wow, what a thread.

I think folks need to remember that MOST folks don’t ride or want to ride WBs. Most folks can’t afford them and don’t want to ride “those” gaits.

Heck, I bred my lovely Wolkentanz I mare to a pony - the horrors I know…

Anyway, the breeders on this forum make themselves look really bad by being so… Snooty.

The horse in the vid looks like a sweet guy - I have no idea about the drama associated with him… but he looks steady and fun to ride. My guess is that the OP got burned using frozen and now is looking to live cover…

Anyway OP - ultimately if you are going to keep the resulting foal it is what will make you happy. I personally don’t appreciate drafts but I know lots of people who do…

so as a first time breeder all I can say is do a lot of research and then do what you think is right for your mare.

Good luck.[/QUOTE]

[mbm]

so am i reading you folks correctly? either people need to breed the best of the best (aka horses that cost a lot of dough) OR they must settle for the rejects that are at slaughter plants?

really?

while i have no dog in this fight, when i watch the videos of the stallion i see a horse that is trying his heart out, whose temperament appears to be very good and who appears to be trained to 3rd level…

those all appear to be traits that most ammies would really appreciate.

so my guess is most folks are attacking this one horse not because of who he is but because folks don’t like his owner.

[stoicfish]

You are not reading this right. You don’t need an expensive mare to breed an ammy horse. You need a mare that you like enough that when her traits come through in the foal, you are going to be happy. Then you find a stallion (one of many that are out there, and not expensive, btw they had him listed as WB prices for breeding, at one point), that has a great personality and the rest of the package. Regardless of breed.
According to you, you take a mare that you don’t like and breed it to anything with a nice personality and under saddle and that is a good idea…Really???

[Nootka]

[QUOTE=pinecone;6768006]
This.

The title of this thread is probably misleading because the OP titled the thread “would you breed to a draft cross?” when she was really asking about a specific draft cross stallion. The negative responses are about the draft/paint stallion in the original post, it’s not negativity about breeding to drafts or draft crosses in general.

I don’t see this thread as bashing draft crosses. I see people saying the OP’s draft/Paint stallion isn’t breeding quality, but that’s not people being “snooty” it’s people being honest.[/QUOTE]

^^^and this ^^^

I love some draft crosses but that stallion in the OP is not breeding worthy. Nice gelding for a Pony Club mount or something like that but not to cover any mare TB or otherwise…

[Freebird]

I saw a horse being ridden in a double bridle. I did not - at least in the video - see a 3rd level horse.

[omare]

I think you are wrong MBN I commented based on my experience watching a family member deal with a beautiful but strong willed draft cross that in the end did not work out.

And I dont think it is snotty for people tp point out that anytime you are dealing with breeding a hybird to an un related in type and pedigree mare you may need up with any combination of (bad and good) parts–that in the least you need to breed to a stallion that will stamp the attribute you are looking for or you may end up with a 1600 pound quirky horse.
(And FWIW I dont know anything about dressage but that particular horse is not a good mover—and I there are good draft cross movers -he is not one.)

[NOMIOMI1]

So breeding a poor temperment to an unkown stock horse cross for “dressage” sounds like a good idea because the stallion packs around his owner at lower level and doesnt act vicey?

This qualifies as a good decision these days?

mbm you didnt just CHOOSE a pony for your mare you took your time and chose a very nice stallion. I think that is all people are asking here. If you go with something non-warmblood there are so many more out there that qualify.

[Laurierace]

It does not cost any less to breed and raise a subpar foal than it does to breed and raise a quality one. Many extremely nice mares are offered for free lease right here on this forum and some of the best stallions in the country can be had for $1000 or less through stallion auctions and early breeding season specials. Settling for less is a penny wise, pound foolish situation and the horse is always the one who ends up paying the price for our poor decisions.

[SportArab]

[QUOTE=mbm;6768064]
so am i reading you folks correctly? either people need to breed the best of the best (aka horses that cost a lot of dough) OR they must settle for the rejects that are at slaughter plants?

really?

while i have no dog in this fight, when i watch the videos of the stallion i see a horse that is trying his heart out, whose temperament appears to be very good and who appears to be trained to 3rd level…

those all appear to be traits that most ammies would really appreciate.

so my guess is most folks are attacking this one horse not because of who he is but because folks don’t like his owner.[/QUOTE]

From my perspective as a breeder, yes, he seems to be a nice guy. But would I breed one of my mares to him? No. I do think he’d make a perfectly lovely gelding for someone.

The choices aren’t between buying a rescue horse or a high priced warmblood. There are plenty of nice horses in between those extremes.

Fact is, there are also plenty of horses out there that just shouldn’t be bred, no matter how nice their temperments are.

[Home_Again_Farm]

This.

[Home_Again_Farm]

This. And I would again question breeding the mare. If it is “snooty” to only breed mares that represent traits that I value and want to reproduce (especially temperament), then I guess I am snooty. I can live with that description. :lol:

[QUOTE=SportArab;6768165]
From my perspective as a breeder, yes, he seems to be a nice guy. But would I breed one of my mares to him? No. I do think he’d make a perfectly lovely gelding for someone.

The choices aren’t between buying a rescue horse or a high priced warmblood. There are plenty of nice horses in between those extremes.

Fact is, there are also plenty of horses out there that just shouldn’t be bred, no matter how nice their temperments are.[/QUOTE]

[Graymaresrule]

[QUOTE=mbm;6768064]
so am i reading you folks correctly? either people need to breed the best of the best (aka horses that cost a lot of dough) OR they must settle for the rejects that are at slaughter plants?

really?

while i have no dog in this fight, when i watch the videos of the stallion i see a horse that is trying his heart out, whose temperament appears to be very good and who appears to be trained to 3rd level…

those all appear to be traits that most ammies would really appreciate.

so my guess is most folks are attacking this one horse not because of who he is but because folks don’t like his owner.[/QUOTE]

A double bridle (or a flying change) does not a third level horse make.

I have no clue about the owner and I HAVE bred to a 1/2 Perch 1/2 TB

[vineyridge]

I was going to say that some very nice horses have come from 1/2 TB x 1/2 draft crosses with TB mares. They are especially popular in the hunt field. Perch x TB is one of the best.

There is a stallion in Canada named Cozy Commander who has produced UL event horses and is part draft, IIRC.

[rosebudranch]

I may be new to the whole breeding thing, but here is my two cents…

Breed for quality, because despite your good intentions to keep a horse forever … Life happens and you may be the on contributing to the over population of unwanted horses.

Watched the video… Noticed what everyone else did… The loose donkey in the corner. The stallion I agree would make a great amateur horse… BUT he looks like he is beig forced Into that frame (maybe the reason for the double bridle eh?), he isn’t using his back at all. If this was meant to be a promo video, they shoul have spent a little more time on presentation. The flapping saddle pad that is too big for his short back is flapping and vet distracting, the rider is way too tall for him and makes him look like a pony - not do her riding abilities make him look any better.

Don’t do it.

I also wondered why you almost booked to redwine… He’s a hunter stallion… Though more deserving match for your mare.

Now onto the topic of “snooty”, yes I suppose I woul fall in this category as well, because I breed or quality and expect a high level from myself and my horses, if they can’t produce it they find another job. Anyone think this attitude by the poster calling those who care “snooty” is the reason that this country can’t seem to compete with Europe in young horse quality… Because they care about their breeding quality and here it’s… Uh … “Oh well this one is mediocre!”

[Canterbury_Court]

Don’t. Plenty of good tempered approved stallions available.

[Appsolute]

So when is the OP going to come back and tell us she is a different Allie, one who owns a poorly tempermented, well bred WB, that she was going to breed to Quarterback or Redwine - or you know some other recognizable name.

And NOT the the Allie (Vetch / Helinski) who owns the Stallion know as “Lance” or the other long lists of names that have been used or stolen and used for this Canadian bred draft cross.