Would you buy a horse with melanomas?

[ratchet]

@StormyDay yeah I am very concerned about the one on her head. The surgeon who has seen her and removed the butt mass told me it was inoperable due to its location. Maybe we can consider a second opinion, however I am inclined to believe him.

I’ve reached out to Dr. Burns from Ohio State and an equine oncologist, Dr. Berryhill from UC Davis concerning this mass and possible treatments. Dr. Berryhill seems to think maybe we can try cisplatin + epinephrine but I’m waiting for further comments from her upon viewing the pics.

Hopefully we take Rani home today, waiting on coggins to come back. She was flighty with the vet techs about shots and wound cleaning earlier in the week, but since we started visiting her every day and messing with her she has improved significantly as far as cooperating with the doctors. Super smart and willing girl.

[ratchet]

Definitely looking into it.

The more info I am hearing back, the more it seems that even injections of drugs in this area are risky.

[ratchet]

Rani is settling in at home. This morning she had an encounter with the big shaving vacuum contraption and wasn’t totally sure what to make of it. She is curious, and calmed down significantly when I opened the window so she could better have a look around.

Spent some time brushing her, which she held still for without needing to be haltered despite her obvious energy. She is in quarantine til Aug 9, so we can’t use the crossties or wash racks til then, and she is separated from the other horses but can still see them.

UC Davis’ Dr. Berryhill mentioned a trial of intratumoral injections with IL-2, so I am waiting to hear back with more info on that (although the needle modality is risky, at least per what our local vet was telling us about the cisplatin). We’re also looking into a trial of cimetidine, although I know someone on here told me to steer clear of that — I need to do more research

Poor girl has had quite the week. I’m relieved she isn’t going to be moved again for a while. Her bum wound is looking fantastic but I did not get any more pics. Still reading up on the supplement OTTBS suggested.

[oldernewbie]

Link to the research report about cimetidine. Trial was in 1990, 3 horses in trial. No followup study that I am aware of. As I said, weak results and my experience using it wasn’t impressive.

Cimetidine for treatment of melanomas in three horses - PubMed

This article covers all melanoma treatments including the cisplatin. It is now 8 years old and could really use a followup, but is still useful.

Equine melanocytic tumors - PubMed

Hope that helps!

[tabula_rashah]

She is gorgeous and major kudos to you for being her soft spot to land

[ratchet]

Thank you! I also did some more research last night. It seems the general feeling is: “expensive and useless.”

UC Davis also suggested radiation treatments. At about $10,000 USD, as much as I want to give this mare a chance that is beyond my capabilities. I am quite intrigued by the interleukin trial.

In addition to vet care, I’ve been looking into dietary supplements i.e. lysine, Vitamin E and C, zinc, maybe ethically source bovine colostrum which I had NO IDEA was a trend in equine nutrition until recently. Seems to offer some immune support.

[oldernewbie]

I don’t want to sound like a broken record but… Oncept, if it works for the horse, works on internal melanomas. You can search this forum and find the experience of folks with gutteral pouch melanomas (very bad) who used Oncept successfully if you get tired of hearing me natter on about it. I appreciate that you want to do your research but to me the bottom line is: 4 Oncept injections to find out if the darn stuff is going to work for this mare. Hang on to your $$ until you know the answer to that question.

Nothing else has much of a scientific track record. Sadly.

All the best to you, you are a great horse owner.

[ratchet]

Thanks @oldernewbie, I REALLY want to try Oncept but finding it is the tricky part. Apparently the administration device is on back order. I think UC Davis will be able to order the actual medication, although every person I’ve talked with so far is doing nothing but hemming and hawing and telling me how it doesn’t work. All I can say is that I want to at least try it. And none of the local small animal vets I’ve tried are being helpful at all.

I reached out to the doc who helped your horse, but haven’t heard anything yet. Might try calling directly tomorrow. Cross your fingers for us…

[iberianfan]

Just want to chime in and give another vote for Oncept. My gelding had numerous melanomas on his sheath, and a few tiny ones under his tail, that were removed surgically last August. This spring, we checked and he had several that had sprung up on his sheath.

Because of the surgery last August, insurance didn’t play into the mix as they no longer cover any melanoma treatment. Last August, that was a part of my decision to do surgery: some of it would be covered.

With no insurance and the possibility to face surgery more than once a year, Oncept became quite attractive. Cost, in the long run, would be less and certainly less stress on the horse.

So, started it the first of May and finished the 4 loading doses by June 30. Just checked and he only has ONE small melanoma on his sheath. All the rest are gone! I am over the moon happy. (It’s a big deal to check this horse: he’s very bashful and won’t let anyone mess with him, so he has to be quite sedated to check his sheath.)

I also had tried cimetidine and I say it did nothing. Waste of money.

My vet had no difficulty getting Oncept? I can ask him where he got it. From the manufacturer, maybe?
So I vote for Oncept and I hope to enjoy this horse for many years. He is almost 13.

Good luck with your beautiful mare. I would buy a grey again in a minute with Oncept out there. Maybe it doesn’t always work, but I think my vet said about an 80% chance of some sort of improvement.
Keep us posted!!

[ratchet]

Alright so, I ended up making a few more calls this afternoon and finally was referred to a veterinary oncology clinic in town that I had no idea existed.

They said YES they are willing to work with us on getting Rani the Oncept vaccine!! It sounds like they have it, and the administration device, in stock…and conversations will begin soon between the docs to figure out correct dosage and we will go from there.

I am stoked and so happy that something finally came through!! It took me first whining about it a bit on here, but hey, whatever works.

Here’s a pic of the goofy girl from her first quarantine/jailbird turnout today
She has begun nickering at me when she sees me…I’m sure the cookies have nothing to do with that, haha.

[oldernewbie]

Oh that is great, great news!

Do you mind PM’ing me your name? Once I have that I will get in touch with Dr Burns and try to expedite your contact with each other.

I don’t know how they administer Oncept to small animals, but there are some tricks to it when it comes to horses. It would be worthwhile to talk to Dr B about that or I can share them with you, even tho I am not a vet and don’t play one on TV!

The availability thing is a mystery. It has not been approved for horses, so it is an off-label use of the drug. It is currently in a trial for approval in horses, led by Dr Phillips, the original Oncept guru. Regardless, the manufacturer - at least here in Ohio - has let large animal vets obtain it and administer it, even tho originally only oncologists or internal med vets were allowed to use it. This policy is apparently not universal?? But around here, as long as the vet was willing to buy the injector, they could get Oncept and treat away. I don’t understand to this day why it is so hard to find someone who knows how to get the stuff.

Also it is a bit concerning that the vets say it doesn’t work and seem unmotivated because of that. I think maybe they need some updating themselves!

Well, whatever. If you can get it into your horse, that’s what we’re after!

[ratchet]

Sending you a PM!

Our local equine vets are wonderful, but I had the surgeon tell me that he didn’t think the vaccine was worth it because it didn’t seem to work when they trialed it with a group of horses while he was in school or with another hospital, I can’t remember. The vet at UC Davis basically told me the same (which was surprising).
Local horse docs also told me that they couldn’t order it, so I had to do the sourcing…haha I don’t know, maybe there is some miscommunication floating around or they aren’t updated on current policies because no one asks for it anyway?

Either way

[Fiesta01]

oldernewbie and iberianfan - You’re wonderful to share your knowledge and experiences!!

ratchet - Quarantine or not, she looks very happy. Keep up the good work and please keep us updated on your journey with Rani. Sending jingles and

[moonlitoaksranch]

I’m very happy to see your progress with this lovely mare.

We didn’t have as many options with our gelding. Cimetidine was the only treatment that showed promise at the time. It did seem to keep him from getting worse for several years.

[iberianfan]

The correct dosage, per my vet is 4ml. Same as dogs. He got the device and a package of the vials already measured by the dose.

My vet was not familiar, so I pushed him into it, based mostly on @oldernewbie and her story. I also used her instructions for administration…I just think equine vets have not had enough exposure to it.

[ratchet]

@oldernewbie is helping me get in touch with Dr. Burns. I am hoping all parties will be amenable to exchanging some info with one another regarding the best way to approach Rani’s case. I did not realize that the dose is the same for a horse as it is for a dog, but given what I know about the vaccine mechanism that makes perfect sense.

Once again I am so grateful for this forum. Thank you everyone for checking in and offering encouragement. I’m sure my riding instructor would’ve preferred I found a schoolmaster type instead of this green bean (although she says she is willing to take over Rani’s education after the first 60 days with our other trainer). Who knows if Rani will even get to that point, but for now I am enjoying getting to know her. I get a lot of fulfillment watching horses be brought along from my own vantage point on the ground, as well. One day! We will see. No rush with her…at least she seems very willing and intent to please.

Still riding that optimistic high from yesterday, but reining myself in until we get absolute confirmation that the plan is a go. Fingers crossed I hear more today.

[ratchet]

Oncept update: The small animal vet proposed us trailering over to their parkinglot and letting them deliver the vaccine to her while in the trailer…
That’s not gonna work.
Conversations are continuing, with the hope that they will let me buy it from them and then give it to the equine field vet to administer.

Rani herself had Day 0 of schooling today. She does not care for a line touching her feet and was pretty reactive about that, but she will get there. Poor girl was fairly scared of the whip, but is trying super hard.

At least she loves water. Her butt wound is looking fabulous.

[Bluey]

The melanoma vaccine is given as a puff of air under pressure, thru the skin.
They shave the skin in a little spot in the chest muscle and the gun makes a little pop! that may startle some horses.
Distracting the horse with a grain bucket or something like that can help a horse ignore the shot.

[ratchet]

Yes But our trailer is small, and I don’t feel completely comfortable with someone crawling in there and delivering it to her. At least the first time.

[iberianfan]

This. It might work in a trailer. It’s best given in the pectoral muscle. My horse is nervous about anything out of the ordinary, so we sedated him lightly. The pop made him jump but not panic.
I am still not clear why your Vet can’t get it.