WTF Are We Doing?

[JP60]

[QUOTE=gardenie;8841172]
http://eventingnation.com/nikita-sotskov-dies-in-rotational-fall-at-ratomka-minsk-cic3/

So very sad.[/QUOTE]
This is sad, but the EN article was more like corporate speak than anything else. After all the sympathy and uplifting statements, it read like a BAU ending with the addition of telling us the DOC is now heading some risk management committee with this mission

“will focus on coordinating initiatives on a global basis, including technology developments, data and statistics, as well as further educational outreach for athletes, course designers, coaches and technical delegates. The working group’s remit is to look at all options to minimise risk factors and is in addition to the FEI’s continual work focused on improving safety in the sport.”

Not sure if one would say, about time…too late…for the the idea that they are performing continual work on improving safety has them pretty much behind the curve.

Any idea what type of fence is was? Ground conditions? Other factors or as part of the educational outreach for athletes, course designers, coaches and technical delegates, it is on a need to know basis.

Cynical? You bet

[Winding_Down]

This event was in Russia. I wonder if they are behind other countries (especially the US as it seems we are at the forefront), in developing safety measures.

[JER]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8843736]
This event was in Russia. I wonder if they are behind other countries (especially the US as it seems we are at the forefront), in developing safety measures.[/QUOTE]

The death happened in a CIC***, which would be run under FEI rules. Officials and technical at a competition of this level are licensed and approved by the FEI, not solely by national federations. The same safety standards apply to all FEI member nations for an FEI-sanctioned competition.

[IFG]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8843736]
This event was in Russia. I wonder if they are behind other countries (especially the US as it seems we are at the forefront), in developing safety measures.[/QUOTE]

It was an FEI event, wasn’t it? So they would need to comply with FEI regs, no matter where the event was held, wouldn’t they?

[Winding_Down]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8843736]
This event was in Russia. I wonder if they are behind other countries (especially the US as it seems we are at the forefront), in developing safety measures.[/QUOTE]

@JER;8843890

The death happened in a CIC***, which would be run under FEI rules. Officials and technical at a competition of this level are licensed and approved by the FEI, not solely by national federations. The same safety standards apply to all FEI member nations for an FEI-sanctioned competition.

@IFG;8843891

It was an FEI event, wasn’t it? So they would need to comply with FEI regs, no matter where the event was held, wouldn’t they?

Absolutely. You are correct, they are running under FEI Rules. However, consider that safety measures often are (as they should be) more strict than FEI. They may not be in other countries such as Russia.

[JER]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8843953]
However, consider that safety measures often are (as they should be) more strict than FEI. They may not be in other countries such as Russia.[/QUOTE]

I’m not sure what you mean. An FEI competition is run under FEI rules regardless of venue.

Could you cite some examples of what you’re talking about – as in where safety measures are ‘more strict than FEI’ at FEI competitions?

[vineyridge]

JER. BE was using frangible pins long before any FEI mandate. And I think they were using them in FEI events.

[JP60]

[QUOTE=JER;8843890]
The death happened in a CIC***, which would be run under FEI rules. Officials and technical at a competition of this level are licensed and approved by the FEI, not solely by national federations. The same safety standards apply to all FEI member nations for an FEI-sanctioned competition.[/QUOTE]

@vineridge

JER. BE was using frangible pins long before any FEI mandate. And I think they were using them in FEI events.

The important point here is that today, at this time a 3* course anywhere in the world is and should be run at the FEI requirements which they say are meant for the welfare of the horse. Whether BE or any other NO does more is not the point. It is also not right to consider that while this was held in Russia, they would be somehow more lax in applying FEI regulations.

More to the point, perhaps it is the regulations, requirements, and guidelines themselves that need to be questioned. As this thread started early this year and pretty much the only thing that has changed is the increase in horse or rider deaths, FEI may talk a good talk, but as to backing it up?

Was it an open oxer of equal height? an open corner? a gate in a combination, bad ground line to a big jump?. Any one of those have been involved before, yet they still appear on course. Was it a tired horse or DR and no one stepped in to stop.

Knowledge is power and the reciprocal makes those impacted powerless and that is every rider that goes out on a UL course.

[Blugal]

As far as what has been done - David O’Connor has been named to head some safety task force or another.

Meanwhile I’ve shuddered at the photos online of Paul Tapner’s fall at an open oxer at Burghley and a grey horse that put its front end down in a Weldon’s Wall obstacle at Blenheim. The Russian rider’s death seems to have had less impact (in social media that I use) than these two incidents. These riders and horses are in life-or-death situations and we (and the FEI) don’t seem to have solved them.

[JER]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;8844421]
JER. BE was using frangible pins long before any FEI mandate. And I think they were using them in FEI events.[/QUOTE]

After the pins were developed from the TRL work in 2001, the pins were trialled at BE and FEI events during 2002.

For quite some years now, frangible technology used in FEI events must be FEI-approved. If an NSF has approved the technology but it has not been approved by the FEI, then it may not be used in FEI competitions. IIRC, the Swedish-made MIM clip was approved and used by the FEI before it was approved by BE.

I do agree, though, that BE has been a leader in eventing safety.

[JER]

[QUOTE=Blugal;8844485]
The Russian rider’s death seems to have had less impact (in social media that I use) than these two incidents. [/QUOTE]

Well, it’s his own damn fault for being Russian. Makes it so much easier for us to ignore his death and blame Russia somehow for being less ‘strict’ about safety measures, even when the FEI is the entity in charge of it.

[vineyridge]

IIRC, BE only approved the MIM clip this after CMP came out in favor after he used them at Luhmuhlen last year.

I’m remembering that the FEI says that approved frangible technology must be used whenever appropriate. For some reason, I don’t think that language was around before 2008. The Russians would be just as bound by the FEI directive as the US or Sweden or Germany or GB.

[skydy]

[QUOTE=Blugal;8844485]
As far as what has been done - David O’Connor has been named to head some safety task force or another.

Meanwhile I’ve shuddered at the photos online of Paul Tapner’s fall at an open oxer at Burghley and a grey horse that put its front end down in a Weldon’s Wall obstacle at Blenheim. The Russian rider’s death seems to have had less impact (in social media that I use) than these two incidents. These riders and horses are in life-or-death situations and we (and the FEI) don’t seem to have solved them.[/QUOTE]

What a tragedy. Again. So young… It would be nice if more information was available to the public regarding the jump, though I think no video is a good thing.

I saw Tapner’s fall (frightening) but not the Weldon’s Wall incident at Blenheim. Do you have a link?

I agree the statement was generic, but they often are.

[Highflyer]

[QUOTE=skydy;8844765]
What a tragedy. Again. So young… It would be nice if more information was available to the public regarding the jump, though I think no video is a good thing.

I saw Tapner’s fall (frightening) but not the Weldon’s Wall incident at Blenheim. Do you have a link?

I agree the statement was generic, but they often are.[/QUOTE]

This Instagram photo of a horse basically jumping straight into the brush part of a ditch and brush came up in my FB feed: https://www.instagram.com/p/BKOq6RBDBaf/

It’s an impressive photo and according to the caption neither horse nor rider were injured. I suspect that’s why it’s been so popular.

[Winding_Down]

[QUOTE=JER;8844617]
Well, it’s his own damn fault for being Russian. Makes it so much easier for us to ignore his death and blame Russia somehow for being less ‘strict’ about safety measures, even when the FEI is the entity in charge of it.[/QUOTE]

oh heavens. All I said was that I “wondered” if Russia was behind other countries in safety measures. You yourself said that “BE has been a leader in eventing safety.” So if they are a leader, then maybe some are further behind.

I do not know much about events in Russia. Ask Trump. :lol:

[skydy]

Thanks Highflyer.

Oh. Well I suppose if a horse wants to jump into the ditch that’s the way to do it. Lucky he was at the right distance from the fence that he was able to fold without breaking his neck. Thanks again, don’t do face book or instagram so I’m not in the loop.

As for the FEI investigation into Mr.Sotskov’s fall, has anyone ever seen the written findings of such an “investigation”? I’ve never come across such findings. Have seen USEF analysis but not FEI. Have I not been digging deeply enough?

[JER]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8845032]
oh heavens. All I said was that I “wondered” if Russia was behind other countries in safety measures.[/QUOTE]

My comment was directed toward the relative quiet surrounding Nikita Sotskov’s death.

Humans are like that. A white girl goes missing and it gets major media play. Not so much for equally-missing non-white women. Bombs explode and planes crash and the US public and media are most interested in the American victims and least interested in the Others.

A Russian rider is killed and there’s something there that shows we just might have a bit of confirmation bias in how we evaluate eventing deaths, even when they’re run under FEI rules.

Of course, one of the reasons for ISF safety and technical regulations is to ensure safe and fair sport worldwide, despite the varied histories and strengths of the member NSFs.

[Winding_Down]

[QUOTE=JER;8845064]
My comment was directed toward the relative quiet surrounding Nikita Sotskov’s death.

A Russian rider is killed and there’s something there that shows we just might have a bit of confirmation bias in how we evaluate eventing deaths, even when they’re run under FEI rules.

.[/QUOTE]

One concern I have is that we may never know anything about this fall. It was rotational. That all we know.

I can find no pictures of this event anywhere online.

[JER]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8845070]

I can find no pictures of this event anywhere online.[/QUOTE]

Here are some links.

News of the death with video of Sotskov riding, although I don’t know where.

This is another news report with a video of a memorial service of sorts at the site of the rider’s accident.

His name in Russian is ??? ???. The incident occurred in Minsk, which is in Belarus, so the reports say that Belarus is handling the investigation. I have no idea what that means.

The venue is Ratomke or ???. In June, a Belarus news outlet did a story with video on the eventing venue.

That’s what I found in about two minutes, and I don’t speak a word of Russian. I’m sure there’s more out there.

ETA - Oh, how funny. This BB doesn’t carry cyrillic letters. Just go to a translator and you’ll get the correct Russian spellings.

Also, some pics of him on Instagram. The hashtag is the Russian spelling of his name.

[skydy]

Instagram link does not work.