WWYD: Client's farrier makes me uncomfortable

[babybritain]

Thank you all for the support. Of course, I logically know these comments were him flexing his power muscles. I am a self-proclaimed feminist and consider myself an ally of minorities, but as a previous poster said, it can be difficult to know what to say in the moment. I wish I had stood up for myself more initially, and did somewhat when he made the racist comments, but it felt tricky being in a work environment and being inherently non-confrontational. In hindsight, I would have been better off exerting my power more. Had I been in a different setting, I have no doubt I would have gone off on this man, but was just so taken aback at work.

I took the advice some gave and told my boss, and I’m glad I did. She was outraged. She said if he ever opens his mouth again in that manner that he will be banned from the property, and that I do not have to handle the horse for this particular farrier. She will ask the owner to do so. That came as a huge relief.

To those of you that asked–I did tell my husband about it right after it occurred. He was disgusted, but unfortunately, not surprised as a black man. I do love the idea of brainstorming with him what to say to these types of remarks in the future though.

Thank you all again for the advice.

[JustTheTicket]

That’s awesome that you have a boss who believed you and won’t put up with that behavior from the farrier. I bet anything that he’s going to continue to say dumb things like that (he was willing to say it to you, a near stranger) and get himself banned before too long.

[MsM]

So glad you told her and she was supportive. I have found it really helps to report the earliest bad behavior. Otherwise you end up saying things like “He has repeatedly said…” and the response is usually “Why didn’t you tell me then?” It is helpful to establish a pattern early, whether or not you boss is supportive. (Actually, more so if s/he is not!)

[hoopoe]

document with your employer,

You have a right to not have to work in an environment where you are subjected to ( right now) low grade sexual harassment and high grade hate speech.

your employer can take it up with the client and choose to not have her back next summer or require her to make other arrangements.

some men just like to be jerks to get a rise out of people. Cut back with an socialization and keep it strictly cold and professional

[pluvinel]

OP, perhaps I’m getting senile in my dotage…I will take another tack from what others have said and would be tempted to play …er, practice…with this farrier person.

Now that you have the support of your boss, you are in a can’t-lose situation if you piss off the farrier…so you can practice your boss-mare 'tude.

This isn’t a corporate setting. So IMHO the concept of harassment doesn’t apply. This is really just the concept of 2 people interacting…and one who is trying a power trip on another.

The pushy stallion analogy is very appropriate…just remember it is the mare that establishes the boundary conditions for the stallion.

You can work up to it when you feel up to it…

[Magicboy]

Good lesson here to report bad behavior to your boss. Early on in case it continues.

[JustTheTicket]

And yeah, now that you know your boss has your back, don’t take any crap from this guy. He says something racist? Call him on it. Literally say " that’s racist". He says something sexually harassing? " dude. You’re being a pervert." He’s being a really bad stallion basically, and your boss handed you the figurative stud chain. Use it, girl.

[gottagrey]

He’s a bigot, disengage do want you need to do as far as helping bring/hold horses. Avoid, disengage having conversations with him except what is work/farrier related. If he keeps trying to have sexist bigoted conversations - do not engage. Quite often these types like to get a rise out of people so just shut down the conversation. Unless he’s a super farrier, I’d encourage your client to find another one.

[Bay_Hair_Don_t_Care]

Well, he sure sounds like a nice man. :rolleyes:

I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with that.

I’m glad you told your boss and that she was supportive and that you can now hopefully minimize your dealings with him.

If you do find yourself dealing with him again, I would just say something like, “You and I clearly don’t see eye to eye on things, so I’d rather just keep the conversation about the horses…”

[ThreeFigs]

How about, “Knock it off, Jackwagon!”

[OneTwoMany]

Glad your employer has your back.

For those who are in similar situations and feel they need to get the employer involved, do approach your boss in a calm professional manner. Give them a chance to listen and to respond. Don’t go off the deep end and demand the employer find someone else to perform a portion of your job, until they have a chance to respond to the information you are sharing with them. You want the boss to focus on the farrier’s behavior, you don’t want your employer’s attention diverted to trying to figure out who is going to perform your job or a portion of your job.

I spent more than 25 years working in a very male dominated industry that isn’t always praised for its pristine treatment of women. Maybe I’m lucky, but I never had serious issues with unwanted attention or comments. Occasionally the lewd comment or advance would be made, but a swift firm response always seemed to work just fine.

Someone makes an unwanted suggestive comment? Respond with a raised voice and say, “What are talking about? You’re married (I’m married, I have a boyfriend, you have a wife and children, etc.). That is abhorrent! What is wrong with you!?”

Or if there is an unwanted physical advance say, “Don’t try to touch my hand! You’re married (I’m married, I have a boyfriend, I’m not interested in you)! What is wrong with you?! Don’t touch me!!”

Obviously this approach works better if you have an audience, but it can work without one as well.

And it goes without saying, keep the conversation focused on work 100%. Don’t share personal information. That only encourages more comments. If the conversation starts to veer off-track, even after you’ve put your foot down, tell the man in no uncertain terms, “I’m here to do a job. I don’t appreciate your comments. Please keep them to yourself. If you don’t, I will have to speak with my employer.”

[pluvinel]

@OneTwoMany

Glad your employer has your back.

For those who are in similar situations and feel they need to get the employer involved, do approach your boss in a calm professional manner. Give them a chance to listen and to respond. Don’t go off the deep end and demand the employer find someone else to perform a portion of your job, until they have a chance to respond to the information you are sharing with them. You want the boss to focus on the farrier’s behavior, you don’t want your employer’s attention diverted to trying to figure out who is going to perform your job or a portion of your job.

I spent more than 25 years working in a very male dominated industry that isn’t always praised for its pristine treatment of women. Maybe I’m lucky, but I never had serious issues with unwanted attention or comments. Occasionally the lewd comment or advance would be made, but a swift firm response always seemed to work just fine.

Someone makes an unwanted suggestive comment? Respond with a raised voice and say, “What are talking about? You’re married (I’m married, I have a boyfriend, you have a wife and children, etc.). That is abhorrent! What is wrong with you!?”

Or if there is an unwanted physical advance say, “Don’t try to touch my hand! You’re married (I’m married, I have a boyfriend, I’m not interested in you)! What is wrong with you?! Don’t touch me!!”

Obviously this approach works better if you have an audience, but it can work without one as well.

And it goes without saying, keep the conversation focused on work 100%. Don’t share personal information. That only encourages more comments. If the conversation starts to veer off-track, even after you’ve put your foot down, tell the man in no uncertain terms, “I’m here to do a job. I don’t appreciate your comments. Please keep them to yourself. If you don’t, I will have to speak with my employer.”

This ^^^^ 1000%. Very profession and gets the point across.

I also spent a career in a male dominated world. Once, my employer had a joint venture with British Telecom. I was doing the failure analysis of parts that were made by BT labs.

So, I pick up a 6PM plane on the east coast US…take a 7 hr flight to Heathrow…take a taxi cross town to Gatwick to pick up a train…to take 2.5 hour train ride to Ipswich Station.

So now it is like 4-5AM my time, I have been awake over 36 hours, have had no sleep and now we start meetings.

The other folks I was traveling with leave to go off to another meeting leaving me with the BT engineer who is making the parts I have been analyzing. British engineer turns to me and says “We don’t want you here…” (plus a few more choice words because I was delivering bad news about the quality of the parts coming out of his lab).

I looked at him straight in the face and said, “I did not want to come on this trip. I was told to come on this trip. We have a job to do so we better figure out how to work together.”

Attitude is about setting limits. It does not have rude. But it clearly sets the rules for the interaction.

[SharonA]

What 3Figs said.

(Except that I don’t know what a Jackwagon is. Oh wait. Looked it up and now wish I hadn’t.)

[Ruth0552]

“This isn’t a corporate setting. So IMHO the concept of harassment doesn’t apply. This is really just the concept of 2 people interacting…and one who is trying a power trip on another.”

What? Yes it most certainly does. Two people who see each other on a regular basis where one makes inappropriate comments to another, even in non-work environment, is still harassment. Like you go out to get your mail and your neighbors yells inappropriate things at you everyday, definitely harassment. Maybe you work as a waitress and there is customer that comes in and makes comment regularly, not corporate, still harassment. Maybe you’re in school and another student makes comments to you in the hall or in class, STILL harassment.

OP, I’m glad your boss is a good person. I would not hesitate to tell this man that you find his comments to be inappropriate and that he should learn to behave in a socially acceptable manner in public.

[Palm_Beach]

@babybritain

Thank you all for the support. Of course, I logically know these comments were him flexing his power muscles. I am a self-proclaimed feminist and consider myself an ally of minorities, but as a previous poster said, it can be difficult to know what to say in the moment. I wish I had stood up for myself more initially, and did somewhat when he made the racist comments, but it felt tricky being in a work environment and being inherently non-confrontational. In hindsight, I would have been better off exerting my power more. Had I been in a different setting, I have no doubt I would have gone off on this man, but was just so taken aback at work.

I took the advice some gave and told my boss, and I’m glad I did. She was outraged. She said if he ever opens his mouth again in that manner that he will be banned from the property, and that I do not have to handle the horse for this particular farrier. She will ask the owner to do so. That came as a huge relief.

To those of you that asked–I did tell my husband about it right after it occurred. He was disgusted, but unfortunately, not surprised as a black man. I do love the idea of brainstorming with him what to say to these types of remarks in the future though.

Thank you all again for the advice.

Good for you! My initial thoughts were that the hot tub comment was completely inappropriate and super creepy and absolutely your boss should be alerted to that comment. WRT the racist comment, it makes him look like an ignorant pig, obviously he is one, but maybe not necessarily a threat. I think you handled this perfectly and I’m happy to hear that your boss is just as outraged. Thank you for your strength.

[retiredhorse]

@babybritain

Thank you all for the support. Of course, I logically know these comments were him flexing his power muscles. I am a self-proclaimed feminist and consider myself an ally of minorities, but as a previous poster said, it can be difficult to know what to say in the moment. I wish I had stood up for myself more initially, and did somewhat when he made the racist comments, but it felt tricky being in a work environment and being inherently non-confrontational. In hindsight, I would have been better off exerting my power more. Had I been in a different setting, I have no doubt I would have gone off on this man, but was just so taken aback at work.

Been there too. Also froze and couldn’t figure out what to say in the moment. Really glad you have the support of your employer. I ended up leaving my job. (my employer was half-supportive, in that she believed me and agreed the behavior was wrong/creepy, but also did not want to lose the guy’s friendship; she did say something to him, and he stopped x-behavior, but was also constantly slightly boundary pushing (not enough to cross the line again, but enough to put me on edge. I felt like I had to be on my guard all the time, because if I wasn’t, it felt like I was allowing it to happen, instead of him watching himself and being accountable for what he was doing). It was exhausting so I quit as soon as I could (I did not think my employer would be of any further assistance).

To those of you that asked–I did tell my husband about it right after it occurred. He was disgusted, but unfortunately, not surprised as a black man. I do love the idea of brainstorming with him what to say to these types of remarks in the future though.

“Go step on a lego.” “A thousand papercuts upon you.” – these are things I think; have not yet said it out loud. Racists are also exhausting (and imo, definitely threatening). If they seem well-meaning, but ignorant, then I might get into a discussion with them, but when they are in white supremacy territory, I want nothing to do with them. It’s not like anything I could say would change their mind.

[ThreeFigs]

SharonA, there are lots of worse words than “Jackwagon”. Origins were a useless piece of equipment, a conveyance made up of salvaged parts. Later used for anyone who’s a jerk, a lazy no-good, and so forth.

I don’t know what definition YOU came across.

A short, pithy comeback will set this jackwagon back on his rear wheels.

[JustTheTicket]

@OneTwoMany

Glad your employer has your back.

For those who are in similar situations and feel they need to get the employer involved, do approach your boss in a calm professional manner. Give them a chance to listen and to respond. Don’t go off the deep end and demand the employer find someone else to perform a portion of your job, until they have a chance to respond to the information you are sharing with them. You want the boss to focus on the farrier’s behavior, you don’t want your employer’s attention diverted to trying to figure out who is going to perform your job or a portion of your job.

I spent more than 25 years working in a very male dominated industry that isn’t always praised for its pristine treatment of women. Maybe I’m lucky, but I never had serious issues with unwanted attention or comments. Occasionally the lewd comment or advance would be made, but a swift firm response always seemed to work just fine.

[B]Someone makes an unwanted suggestive comment? Respond with a raised voice and say, “What are talking about? You’re married (I’m married, I have a boyfriend, you have a wife and children, etc.). That is abhorrent! What is wrong with you!?”

Or if there is an unwanted physical advance say, “Don’t try to touch my hand! You’re married (I’m married, I have a boyfriend, I’m not interested in you)! What is wrong with you?! Don’t touch me!!”[/B]

Obviously this approach works better if you have an audience, but it can work without one as well.

And it goes without saying, keep the conversation focused on work 100%. Don’t share personal information. That only encourages more comments. If the conversation starts to veer off-track, even after you’ve put your foot down, tell the man in no uncertain terms, “I’m here to do a job. I don’t appreciate your comments. Please keep them to yourself. If you don’t, I will have to speak with my employer.”

This is good advice, but don’t ever feel like you need to justify not wanting someone to touch you. You don’t have to say “I have a boyfriend!” if you don’t want a man to hold your hand. Just say “don’t touch me!” end of sentence. It makes it sound like you’d be into it if weren’t for that man you rely on to protect you.

[poltroon]

I’m so glad that worked out for you OP.

FTR: Your employer has a legal duty to protect you from harassment which includes harassment from clients and vendors. These rules are especially strong in California but the incidents you mentioned would be actionable under federal law also, if you informed your employer, if the behavior continued or escalated, and your employer did nothing.

As horsemen, we rarely get this training either as employers or employees, but it still applies. To employees, I definitely recommend making the complaint in some written and preservable form so if the situation does escalate, or if the employer retaliates, you have a record.

I’m glad the employer did the right thing here.

[WildLittleWren]

I am glad to hear your employer was supportive of you! Best of luck!