WWYD: Client's farrier makes me uncomfortable

[snowrider]

I think it’s time this farrier learnt that there are consequences for his actions and words. He may work for himself but he still has clients,

Originally posted by mmeqcenter View Post
Sis: Turns to bartender and hands back signed receipt. Turns back to WM and says “Well I doubt we’ll be able to help you with that since my husband’s black” and walks away.

This blows my mind on a regular basis. I hear things like this fairly often from local programmers I work with on some small projects. It’s like there is a website they all go to that feeds them these ridiculous lines. I have a very multi-cultural and international extended family who are quite accomplished and I have to laugh when some very mediocre white guy who’s never traveled or advanced in his career gives me a pompous talk on how things are in other countries or how women are and I just think buddy- you have no idea. Well, I usually say out loud and not think it because I’m not American and women where I come from feel no need to quietly listen to men say stupid things. haha.

[Bethe_Mounce]

I did not read all the comments. My two cents: Be like Helen Mirren and tell him to 6_9’ off. The hot tub comment was only the beginning. Anyone who makes a comment like that whether in jest or not, (he would say it was a joke), is feeling powerful and using that power to prey on the unsuspecting. The racist comment is reflective of his lack of education. Document everything. He makes you uncomfortable, he needs to go. Tell the barn owner, the trainer, your boss. Sing like a canary. I can bring Guido and Giuseppe to take care of business. That was meant as a joke. This is not an easy subject to discuss.

[Bethe_Mounce]

If he were in my barn, he’d be gone after the first comment no matter the position I held in the barn. Sucking it up encourages his behavior; this is not his first rodeo. He has made these comments before to others. No longer can any of us be subjected to sexually laced comments without consequences to the perpetrator. I am a grumpy ole toad trainer who refuses to allow anyone to be less than appropriate.

[mvp]

@hosspuller

Yes… suck it up as you said. Just be professional and keep your actions to business. He can have his opinions, you don’t have to listen to them. Be minimalist, you don’t have to run shrieking unless he doesn’t stop at the line between business and harassment.

Surely you didn’t conflate “tell your boss you don’t want to work with someone who has made harrassing and racist comments” with “run shrieking”?

Way back when I would have just ignored all that and done my job. But now, in our present cultural moment, we are no longer required to just bend over and take it. You may want to ask yourself what kind of world you want to live in and behave accordingly. That’s your part in it/your power.

[hosspuller]

@mvp

Surely you didn’t conflate “tell your boss you don’t want to work with someone who has made harrassing and racist comments” with “run shrieking”?

Way back when I would have just ignored all that and done my job. But now, in our present cultural moment, we are no longer required to just bend over and take it. You may want to ask yourself what kind of world you want to live in and behave accordingly. That’s your part in it/your power.

Yes … I do think ONE oblique sex comment is not grounds to run shrieking and I’m an old toad too. But, I’m not as tough as the ranchers & farmers when I was a youngster. The present cultural moment engenders snowflakes and safe spaces. Be tough. Draw your lines. Stand your own ground.

[flyingchange]

As someone else who has BTDT, do NOT “suck it up.” Tell your boss - and document it when you do. You do NOT have to put up with being hit on in the work place - not in this country. Not anymore. And not just because you are new on the job. It is your boss’s responsibility to create and maintain a safe workplace, which means firing people and contractors like this dip$hit farrier. I have been exactly where you are. I have fired two farriers due to them making inappropriate/sexual/suggestive comments to me. But in total, I have had at least five - yes, FIVE farriers hit on me - mostly through my 20s and 30s. And no, I was not “inviting” it. I wore conservative clothes, and only wanted to talk about horses and feet. I had one “prominent” one (who did some olympic and other UL horses) in the area comment on how “sexy the sweat line on the rear end of my breeches” looked. Another one would say things like, “man, if I’d known you back in the day,” blah blah barf. Many other gross comments. And I would just sort of ignored it/laughed it off. I worried that I wouldn’t be able to find another farrier if I took action. It wasn’t until my early 40’s that I realized I could and should get rid of these predators. In fact, creepy farriers was the impetus that motivated me to learn to trim my horses myself. I had reached a point where I didn’t need them in shoes for a number of years and I just could not deal with the BS with these farriers, so I learned to trim them myself.

Have you ever heard the term “barn candy”? Because that is a term that some farriers use to describe grooms/working students/assistants etc. Does that term not infuriate you? I put up with this type of behavior back in my 30s because I did not “own my power,” as a previous poster very wisely put it, until my mid-40s. There is no need to wait until your mid-40s to own your power in the barn (or anywhere else).

There are some classy, talented, professional farriers out there. You don’t have to put up with this, and you shouldn’t. And like another poster mentioned - I now try to use females for work when I have it. I have a female farrier now who is top-notch (trained by a classy/respected farrier in this area) and I don’t have to put up with this crap anymore.

[Malda]

@hosspuller

Yes… suck it up as you said. Just be professional and keep your actions to business. He can have his opinions, you don’t have to listen to them. Be minimalist, you don’t have to run shrieking unless he doesn’t stop at the line between business and harassment.

Would you give this advice to someone whose horse bit them? Just suck it up, let it go, unless the horse continues to bite then do something.

Any horse person knows they better respond fast to that first bite, otherwise the horse will have learned that it’s okay to bite people.

Same for people. If that farrier gets away with it once, he’ll do it again. And to other girls/women. No one has to “run shrieking”, but he needs to know that the first comment was unacceptable and won’t be tolerated. That comment wasn’t an opinion, no one should talk like that in a business setting.

[Jeannette_formerly_ponygyrl]

@Palm Beach , looks like you are using “real world” as a synonym for “corporate” or “Not the barn.”
. For the trainers, grooms, barn owners, boarders, farriers, etc who post on this bb, (not to mention the ones who don’t) the barn is the real world, or a significant part of it.
Yes, we rarely have an HR department there, but it is ever so real. Choosing another, more accurate phrase to distinguish barns from other work environments might get you less pushback…

[Palm_Beach]

@Jeannette

@Palm Beach , looks like you are using “real world” as a synonym for “corporate” or “Not the barn.”
. For the trainers, grooms, barn owners, boarders, farriers, etc who post on this bb, (not to mention the ones who don’t) the barn is the real world, or a significant part of it.
Yes, we rarely have an HR department there, but it is ever so real. Choosing another, more accurate phrase to distinguish barns from other work environments might get you less pushback…

No, honey. You are incorrect. It’s “the real world” vs. “the imaginary internet world.” In the real world, firing someone over an unproven allegation might have unintended consequences if the allegation was false. Would you like to be fired because someone said you said something, or would you like to have a chance at a rebuttal, or perhaps explaining your point of view, or perhaps that someone was lying about you?

Maybe before getting preachy you should read for content and make sure you understand what is being said.

[Highflyer]

Except that he’s an independent contractor, so he isn’t being “fired” he’s just not being offered additional contracts.

[retiredhorse]

@hosspuller

Yes … I do think ONE oblique sex comment is not grounds to run shrieking and I’m an old toad too. But, I’m not as tough as the ranchers & farmers when I was a youngster. The present cultural moment engenders snowflakes and safe spaces. Be tough. Draw your lines. Stand your own ground.

I’m all for the line being drawn at ZERO sexist/racist comments and fewer creeps. I don’t know why you think safe spaces are a bad thing.

@Malda

Same for people. If that farrier gets away with it once, he’ll do it again. And to other girls/women.

Yup. What I found when I finally said something about my harasser – he’d “lowkey” been doing the same to other women too. But no one said anything, because it was “just” a few small incidents and no one wants to cause a scene or “tattle” or be seen as weak. They were “handling” it in their own way, by not being alone with him or going elsewhere for work.

No one has to “run shrieking”, but he needs to know that the first comment was unacceptable and won’t be tolerated. That comment wasn’t an opinion, no one should talk like that in a business setting.

TBH, I’m all for people to run shrieking about this. Silence is insidious and allows this kind of behavior to fester. It’s ok to gather strength in numbers, to be tough with other people’s help and stand together. One snowflake might not be able to do anything, but an avalanche of pushback against sexism/racism/harassment might shift cultural values/mores so this kind of stuff is not tolerated at all, not even ONE time.

Let’s say someone says/does something inappropriate, and your answer is LOUD and PUBLIC – first of all, now you may have witnesses, if the perpetrator wants to cry foul (or “joking” or “she wanted it” or whatever), and secondly, yeah, if public shaming works and stops harassment, I’m all for it. BE AFRAID if you want to be sexist/racist/“old fashioned”, instead of being afraid to stand up to it, what’s wrong with that change in culture.

[Red_Barn]

You seem articulate, smart and sensible, OP - your people are from the smarter part of Europe, I assume? - so why not just tell this asshole off yourself? He sounds like an utter moron, and I expect you could easily make mincemeat of him.

You can, of course, report all this to your client, but I think you’ll feel better and accomplish more if you deal with it yourself.

[Highflyer]

What is the “smarter part of Europe”?

[chestnutmarebeware]

@Palm Beach

No, honey. You are incorrect. It’s “the real world” vs. “the imaginary internet world.” In the real world, firing someone over an unproven allegation might have unintended consequences if the allegation was false. Would you like to be fired because someone said you said something, or would you like to have a chance at a rebuttal, or perhaps explaining your point of view, or perhaps that someone was lying about you?

Maybe before getting preachy you should read for content and make sure you understand what is being said.

He’s not being fired. He’s potentially being denied entry to someone’s private property. He’s free to work with his clients at another location. Hell, they could trailer their horses to another client’s barn for trims, or even a wide spot in the road.

There’s no burden of proof, or requirement to hear his side, on the part of the property owner. And yay for the boss! I’d have barred him immediately just for being a racist jerk.

[Red_Barn]

@Highflyer

What is the “smarter part of Europe”?

That was a joke, dear. :rolleyes:

[Hulk]

Why is it such a problem to move forward and progress? So what, if that’s the way it always has been. I am constantly looking for improvement. I constantly up date and change my pasture configurations, my watering systems, I am always looking for new and better products, better way of doing things, looking to educate myself about better vet care for my animals. So why is it considered such a problem to make a workplace better, polite, comfortable, and non harassing to its workers? Why do we not want better standards there? How can anyone think that one should just suck it up and continued to be harassed.? Don’t you aspire to live in a better world? Because I seek that daily in all things.

I don’t agree with abuse. To allow that to continue and turn a blind eye, and tell the victims to just suck it up is abusive and abuse of power. It is absolute BS that this day in age some recommend to keep things the way they are and continue daily abuse, and not ask for better behavior of our fellow citizens. Seriously people that suggest to suck it up, blow my mind.

And one more question why is it called," shrieking" when one reports this stuff.? I am sure a person can file a complaint in a sane, rational, even toned voice. Do you refer to it as “shrieking” to discredit the victims report?

[retiredhorse]

@Hulk

Why is it such a problem to move forward and progress? So what, if that’s the way it always has been. I am constantly looking for improvement. I constantly up date and change my pasture configurations, my watering systems, I am always looking for new and better products, better way of doing things, looking to educate myself about better vet care for my animals. So why is it considered such a problem to make a workplace better, polite, comfortable, and non harassing to its workers? Why do we not want better standards there? How can anyone think that one should just suck it up and continued to be harassed.? Don’t you aspire to live in a better world? Because I seek that daily in all things.

I don’t agree with abuse. To allow that to continue and turn a blind eye, and tell the victims to just suck it up is abusive and abuse of power. It is absolute BS that this day in age some recommend to keep things the way they are and continue daily abuse, and not ask for better behavior of our fellow citizens. Seriously people that suggest to suck it up, blow my mind.

And one more question why is it called," shrieking" when one reports this stuff.? I am sure a person can file a complaint in a sane, rational, even toned voice. Do you refer to it as “shrieking” to discredit the victims report?

Well, you know women are hysterical. /sarcasm. THIS to the whole post. I always wonder what vested interest do people have when they push for silence, to keep things the way they were rather than change for the better, what skeletons are in their closet… or perhaps they just see nothing wrong with being sexist (“shrieking” is a prime example) or racist, and supporting fellow sexist/racist people, which is a big part of the problem that hopefully enough other people are trying to counter and progress from.

[Hulk]

@retiredhorse

Well, you know women are hysterical. /sarcasm. THIS to the whole post. I always wonder what vested interest do people have when they push for silence, to keep things the way they were rather than change for the better, what skeletons are in their closet… or perhaps they just see nothing wrong with being sexist (“shrieking” is a prime example) or racist, and supporting fellow sexist/racist people, which is a big part of the problem that hopefully enough other people are trying to counter and progress from.

Amen to that! Good point though, what is in it for them to fight so hard to keep things the way they are.?

[BoyleHeightsKid]

I would suck it up, but I wouldn’t stay quiet about it either. I would be upfront with him and just tell him that he’s not there to socialize or share opinions. He’s there to shoe horses period. If he doesn’t like it he can deal with the owner from then on. I would just handle it myself and if the owner didn’t like it, well then they can deal with this person themselves.

[Altag]

@Hulk

Amen to that! Good point though, what is in it for them to fight so hard to keep things the way they are.?

Same reason that people vote against their own interests. It doesn’t necessarily suggest any nefarious reason for supporting reprehensible behavior or policies, it’s simply easier to do so. Maintaining the status quo means that one need not deal with examining their own hypocrisy, hypocrisy or potentially even bad behavior in their family, loved ones, upbringing, or experience.

Essentially, if one denies that something is an issue, one can go on their merry way without having to actually deal with it.