Not at all.
It’s about power - who has it, and who uses it.
When you counsel women to cede their own power to “authorities”, rather than seizing it themselves, you’re essentially relegating them to the defenseless, second class status of children.
And yes, of course, being an adult is “uncomfortable” on many occasions. That’s life, and there’s no way around it.
Because in life you can’t eliminate stupid, rude, bigots or gross…you can just change the way you respond to rude, stupid, biased or gross people.
And women have it in their power to exercise that power.
It is a system that encourages women to “talk to HR” that relegates them to a second-class population “needing protection.”
I remember going to these corporate “sensitivity training” sessions and having a pervasive “woe is me” victimology attitude being taught. Obviously I did not earn brownie points with upper management in the Q&A session.
And rest assured…HR is not there for you (the employee)…they are there to protect the corporation from legal action.
Let’s explore this.
So at work, you report it to HR. Guy gets in trouble. k cool.
Guy makes a comment walking past you on the street. Shoot, can’t call HR. Call the police over a wolf-whistle? Who do you report that to?
A friend of a friend makes a racist comment at a bar when you’re all out together for drinks. Dang, who do I report this to now?
Not everything needs to be reported to a superior. Don’t get me wrong, there is stuff that should immediately be brought there. But you are no more or less a “victim” when you address a relatively benign situation head on. Not everything in life will be comfortable - that’s how the cookie crumbles, so swim or drown.
Story time: Had a young woman colleague who went to HR - wanted us to stop using the (industry standard) word of ‘impregnate’ for metal loading a catalyst base, because it “made her uncomfortable.” This is the world we are encouraging…
I think that’s what the corporate message meant - to confront first and let the ass know that he was being an ass and to stop NOW. I don’t think that’s ceding my power - I think that’s using it; however, if the behavior continued I would be reporting it. It probably depends on the business/hr depart. as for how effective reporting would be. And yes, that means the onus is on the harassed all because of the bolded above.
Now to keep this in context, I haven’t been sexually harassed at work since my first job out of college (eons ago) when I had a creepy, handsy boss. I just chose to leave that job because I hadn’t built up my self worth enough to tell him to f@ck off. I just found another job. These days, that wouldn’t happen because I’d shut that son of a b1tch down from the get go. Some things about getting older and having more experience aren’t necessarily bad.
Just curious as to what happened?
Hmmm…so how does this little snowflake deal with male and female connections???
I’m also interested in the outcome.
HR did not know how to handle it, so moved her to a different training group that was not handling catalyst, and therefore didn’t need to use the term.
Kid gloves. She proceeded to cause me a lot of issues on site for her refusal to tuck her platinum blonde hair into her hardhat (safety concern, rotating equipment), which she reported me to HR for harassing her about - she got 3 reminders from me about it. I didn’t get a raise that year, because of of my exasperation with the situation after the third reminder (and a host of other safety violations - not lacing her boots, walking under live crane loads, not wearing her safety glasses, carrying water with her in the field, etc etc), I kicked her off site.
Moral of the story: Someone’s feelings are more important than their life. and, complain about anything you don’t like and someone will cater to your whims, no matter how unfounded they are.
I’ve been reading all of these comments with great interest in all the different perspectives, honestly trying to learn from them.
I do agree that I need to work on being more comfortable with confrontation. That is something that has always been a struggle for me. I have a hard time knowing what to say in the moment and I tend to freeze up.
But, the difference between the scenarios you describe here is the environment in which they occur. I have no problem telling a guy to f-off (and in fact have on plenty of occasions) for cat calling or being inappropriate in a bar/on the street/etc. I have no problem calling someone out in a social setting if they’re being a racist jerk. Or, I could simply remove myself from the situation.
My problem in this instance was that it occurred at my place of work. I could not remove myself from the situation, and, while I should have told him more explicitly his comments were inappropriate and racist, it was in the back of my head that this is my place of employment and I need to be professional. I have to show up here every day, and I was feeling seriously anxious about dealing with this guy again.
So yes, I need to practice standing up for myself in a work environment. But all this talk trying to shame me for “running shrieking to” (i.e. informing) my boss seems a little over the top. I find it slightly condescending that you’re equating telling a barn manager of happenings on the property to calling the police over a cat call. I stand by my decision to inform my boss, and I feel much more comfortable now that she is at least aware of the situation.
Just to add to the reality check…my turn for story telling.
Back in the day…in a time far, far, away…I worked for a Fortune 100 multinational corporation. Due to a rash of some very public lawsuits of public corporations, at some point in time my Corporate Powers decided we, the great unwashed, needed “sexual harassment training”…so as to prevent said Corporate Entity from being sued…or to show in court that the Corporation had done “training” of their employees should such a suit be brought.
So, HR puts together mandatory training workshops. The format of the workshop was that they would show video vignettes of instances of supposed sexual harassment and the attendees were to discuss what was appropriate action…facilitated by HR, of course…so that we got properly trained in the appropriate response.
So…picture a conference room, with the HR Facilitator and about 15-18 people, including the Executive VP, and Directors of my business…along with yours truly and some others needing educating.
One vignette shows a woman making copies at the copy machine, which was located in a back area cubby hole…out of general view. A virile young male comes up to her and makes some suggestive remarks. The young woman leaves the situation, crying, and goes to a break room, where some colleagues (women) are consoling her. What would you say?..asks the HR facilitator.
In the vignette, the male is described as being identified as a “corporate promotable”…eg., a high flyer…eg., inducted into the tribe of selected future corporate leaders. This is an elite club that guarantees promotions every 18 months, visibility to the Board of Directors and is the tenure-track for future CEO position.
We are going around the room, getting everyone’s response and they come to me.
I say, “This guy is a corporate promotable. Nothing to date has shown that senior leadership has suffered negative consequences due to inappropriate behavior. So my advice to the young woman would be that if it happens next time to get in his face and tell him he is unprofessional and to make it clear he is to keep to himself… and that I would not report him to HR because the corporate promotable were protected and nothing good would come of it for me (a woman reporting the action).”
That fall I got laid off…
But when one door closes another opens and the karmic universe opened the door to the best job I ever had…something that I would never would have been able to do, had I still been in that business.
I hear you. I also was faced with a “What do I do now?” moment…I’m also slow and usually think of a good come-back about a day later.
My suggestion is to stay professional. No expletives, loud voices or 4-letter words…just very clearly state what is allowed.
Just so you know you are not alone…in the case I described of being with the British Telecom engineer where he told me that me and my work were not wanted…
His tone was full of such vitriol that I was not wanted there, that I should take my analysis and stuff it…that I recall being shocked at his anger and had one of those “out of body experiences”…(you know like when your heart stops and you see yourself in the surgical table)…I said, “Self, what do I do now?”
I had been traveling thru multiple time zones, I had been awake over 36 hours, I was tired…when he starts his attack. I heard my “spirit self” is saying, “We are at a major corporation. We are professionals. We are polite to each other…what do I do now?”
I just said that I did not want to be there…that I had been told to travel to present my work and that we had better learn how to work together because I was not going away.
He did shut up after that.
Just to add to the stories and for a reality check…another turn for story telling.
Back in the day…in a time far, far, away…I worked for a Fortune 100 multinational corporation. Due to a rash of some very public lawsuits of public corporations, at some point in time my Corporate Powers decided we, the great unwashed, needed “sexual harassment training”…so as to prevent said Corporate Entity from being sued…or to show in court that the Corporation had done “training” of their employees should such a suit be brought.
So, HR puts together mandatory training workshops. The format of the workshop was that they would show video vignettes of instances of supposed sexual harassment and the attendees were to discuss what was appropriate action…facilitated by HR, of course…so that we got properly trained in the appropriate response.
So…picture a conference room, with the HR Facilitator and about 15-18 people, including the Executive VP, and Directors of my business…along with yours truly and some others needing educating.
One vignette shows a woman making copies at the copy machine, which was located in a back area cubby hole…out of general view. A virile young male comes up to her and makes some suggestive remarks. The young woman leaves the situation, crying, and goes to a break room, where some colleagues (women) are consoling her. What would you say?..asks the HR facilitator.
In the vignette, the male is described as being identified as a “corporate promotable”…eg., a high flyer…eg., inducted into the tribe of selected future corporate leaders. This is an elite club that guarantees promotions every 18 months, visibility to the Board of Directors and is the tenure-track for future CEO position.
We are going around the room, getting everyone’s response and they come to me.
I say, “This guy is a corporate promotable. Nothing to date has shown that senior leadership has suffered negative consequences due to inappropriate behavior. So my advice to the young woman would be that if it happens next time to get in his face and tell him he is unprofessional and to make it clear he is to keep to himself… and that I would not report him to HR because the corporate promotable were protected and nothing good would come of it for me (a woman reporting the action).”
That fall I got laid off…
But when one door closes another opens and the karmic universe opened the door to the best job I ever had…something that I would never would have been able to do, had I still been in that business.
Gross.
Yes this is your place of employment. That is why you document the situation with your employer. It is not running to hr, it is cya and that of your employer
To clarify, the CYA part is NOT to get “protection” for the snowflake…but as a CYA for when that perpetrator goes running behind your back to the boss or farm or horse owner to complain about the “uppity groom” that gave him some rude back-talk.
It is always “a good practice” to keep supervision in the loop so they are never surprised…and is up to date with farm goings-on.
Let you immediate supervisor know what happened so that boss knows and is prepared with information when stories start floating around.
To Quote my favorite podcast MFM…F*ck Politeness.
I think there is an art in being able to tell someone to bugger-off in an erudite, professional manner…especially in a corporate setting.
When one has to resort to expletives, one stoops to the language of the gutter thus admitting that one does not have the vocabulary to adequately convey one’s displeasure.
Mind you, I have a vocabulary that would make a sailor’s beard curl, and have been known to use it…in the proper situation.
However…I have also taken it as a personal challenge to BE a professional and to use professional language and demeanor that lets people know exactly what I think about their behavior.
I wasn’t saying to cuss anyone out. That’s not what the phrase refers to.
I work in a corporate setting and know how to use my words.
ETA: This explains the phrase.
https://www.reddit.com/r/myfavoritemurder/comments/78nxc2/the_meaning_of_fuck_politeness/
Nothing says being professional in a corporate environment like throwing women under the bus by not reporting gross sexist behavior because a corporate Golden boy might lose his wings. That’s definitely the kind of man we want in senior leadership. Vomit.
People like this guy are all over the news getting in trouble for this kind of thing. It’s surprising that people don’t start learning to shut up. Makes a person question the white’s intelligence level right back at them.
I’m an introvert myself and often look back on things like this that happen to me and wish I had spoken up. I’m trying hard to pick out those situations when I see them and give myself a kick in the pants. But my personality makes it very difficult.
Whatever work environment you are in, you’ll always get points for handling problems. The value in reporting to HR is documentation, so get something to have proof.
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