WWYD—coach drugging horses

[alter3974]

A few weeks ago, a couple teammates of mine told me that while getting the horses ready for schooling at an IHSA show, our coach came down the the grooming area about 20 minutes before we were due in the ring and drugged a couple of the horses right in front of them. This information came from people that have a clue (ie they know enough to recognize Ace in a syringe). This shocked and upset me as my coach had never struck me as one to drug horses. I always rode at farms where we didn’t drug horses to ride—period. Maybe briefly for rehabbing but other than that, never. It also upset me that I was the only one who seemed to see anything wrong with this. Most just kind of shrugged their shoulders and a few actively supported it.

anyway, my question is… what would you do? I don’t know if I can stomach riding on a team where I know the horses get drugged, at least for shows. I know that my coach’s line of thinking is probably that they might break if we lunge them or ride them until they’re quiet since many of the school horses are a bit creaky or old or have soundness issues. It still doesn’t sit right with me and I feel like that isn’t a justification for drugging them. Am I wrong and overreacting? Should I quit the team? I’ve been thinking about it non stop for a couple weeks now and I don’t know what to do.

[CHT]

Talk to the coach directly. If they aren’t hiding it, they are probably willing to discuss whatever it was as well. Then you can decided what to do with actual information

[kiwichick]

Its very common place over here in eventing, every second person is wandering around with a tube of Ace.
It amazes me what other people think is acceptable, and I guess you just have to determine what you yourself are comfortable with.

Ive noticed lately EVERYONE schools in draw reins. Im the only person I know who doesnt ride in draw reins.

Id say if you ask them and they think its acceptable they will say so, the people ive asked justify these things nicely to themselves. I wouldnt be comfortable owning a horse I had to ace to ride, but thats me. Im also not comfortable riding in draw reins, and again, thats just me. Im not on moral highground, I just dont like them.

[retiredhorse]

@alter3974

I know that my coach’s line of thinking is probably that they might break if we lunge them or ride them until they’re quiet since many of the school horses are a bit creaky or old or have soundness issues. It still doesn’t sit right with me and I feel like that isn’t a justification for drugging them.

Sounds like you’ve already answered your own question.

I’m not familiar with the program. Do they have other coaches? or other activities you can do with the horses besides show?

[AliCat]

I think it’s a fairly common occurrence for IHSA shows. Some are just more blatent about it.

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

@retiredhorse

Sounds like you’ve already answered your own question.

I’m not familiar with the program. Do they have other coaches? or other activities you can do with the horses besides show?

IHSA is a collegiate riding program in the US. Colleges field teams and are organized into regions. Teams within the region show against each other, and riders/teams can advance to regional and national championships.

The competition model in IHSA is based on riders competing within divisions based on experience - including Walk-trot/jog divisions for those with little to no riding experience. Horses for the most part are donated for the show - maybe from the barns where the teams train, maybe from members of the local equestrian community. Some IHSA schools have their own barns and horses, but I think that is the exception rather then the rule. Riders draw their mounts for each class, get on with essentially no warm-up, and then go do their thing - either in a rail class, an over fences class (English), or in a horsemanship/reining class (Western).

Given the competition model, it really does not surprise me to hear that many of the horses are aced. The quality of the horses available for the shows can be highly variable - and sometimes the teams hosting shows really have to scrounge to come up with enough to accomodate all the riders. Based on my observations at just a few shows a few years back, it’s not a big leap to see how ace could be used to take the edge off a horse that otherwise might not be safely showable - especially in a beginner class.

Most of the colleges in the region I am most familiar with have a main coach for English and a main coach for Western so a rider wouldn’t be able to switch coaches without transfering to a different college.

[paintedpony]

Refer to your rule book to obtain supporting directives (rule 3503) . List as an agenda item for your next team meeting, invite your faculty advisor and possibly an IHSA rep. Provide clear directive to coach from the team. Terminate coach employment as indicated.

[Action42]

@kiwichick

Its very common place over here in eventing, every second person is wandering around with a tube of Ace.
It amazes me what other people think is acceptable, and I guess you just have to determine what you yourself are comfortable with.

Ive noticed lately EVERYONE schools in draw reins. Im the only person I know who doesnt ride in draw reins.

Id say if you ask them and they think its acceptable they will say so, the people ive asked justify these things nicely to themselves. I wouldnt be comfortable owning a horse I had to ace to ride, but thats me. Im also not comfortable riding in draw reins, and again, thats just me. Im not on moral highground, I just dont like them.

I have not had this be my experience in my many years of eventing. Especially not at recognized shows since Ace is a forbidden substance. Maybe it’s just the area you are in.

[trubandloki]

@alter3974

This information came from people that have a clue (ie they know enough to recognize Ace in a syringe).

How does one “recognize Ace in a syringe”?

Isn’t it clear, like so many other things that are clear in a syringe?

[hoopoe]

no all ace I have ever used is bright yellow

[Highflyer]

@trubandloki

How does one “recognize Ace in a syringe”?

Isn’t it clear, like so many other things that are clear in a syringe?

It’s yellow.

[amb]

@CHT

Talk to the coach directly. If they aren’t hiding it, they are probably willing to discuss whatever it was as well. Then you can decided what to do with actual information

That, very much that. If the coach isn’t willing to have that conversation it is (to me anyway) a different problem.

[eqsiu]

@AliCat

I think it’s a fairly common occurrence for IHSA shows. Some are just more blatent about it.

Good Lord really? Even the shady coach I fired while president of my team wasn’t drugging the horses. I mean, he was smoking weed at shows and was an alcoholic, but he wasn’t drugging the horses. Come to think of it, we had a reputation at that time for not have decent horses for shows.

Refer to your rule book to obtain supporting directives (rule 3503) . List as an agenda item for your next team meeting, invite your faculty advisor and possibly an IHSA rep. Provide clear directive to coach from the team. Terminate coach employment as indicated.

This. There are other coaches. There are other barns. My team survived and so will yours. Worst case scenario your captain or president can be listed as coach (as I was) for official purposes. You don’t have to take an actual coach to shows, just designate someone to go to the coach’s meetings and help each other out. There is also nothing wrong with not being able to host shows until you find another coach/barn.

[pologirl27]

Talk to them directly and get the story. Frankly some of the IHSA horses I witnessed could have used some Ace. The number of people that got run off with in freakin walk-trot-canter on the flat was impressive.

I have no idea if Ace is legal for IHSA horses. I would imagine if your barn was providing all horses and thus they were all aced as needed, I wouldn’t have an issue with it.

[2DogsFarm]

@AliCat

I think it’s a fairly common occurrence for IHSA shows. Some are just more blatent about it.

Well, that is just sad for a program like IHSA.
What is the legality of drugging for this program?
If it is allowed/ legal then also sad for the participants & horses working sedated.

I have no issue with a legal pain med used on an aged or injured-but-able-to-work horse, but to routinely sedate is distasteful.
When I showed Hunters (back in the Stone Age) I made a point of telling my Trainer my younger (aged 6yo to 9yo) horse was NOT to receive the routine daily Bute injection to “help” him get through 3 days of showing.
If he was sore, I wanted to know!

[Arelle]

I may be the voice of dissent here, but IMO a little ace is the lesser of the various evils and I think you’re probably overreacting if your instinct is to immediately quit the team.

Overlooking the legality of which substances are allowed vs banned for ISHA competition (because I honestly don’t know)… you mentioned the coach drugged a “couple” of the horses. It doesn’t sound like every horse on the property was doped up.

A lot of the horses in the ISHA programs I’m aware of are donated - they usually won’t vet or have some other issue (age, talent, whatever) that makes them hard to sell privately. YOU don’t know what the circumstance is, OP. Maybe - like you said - it’s kinder for them to have a little cocktail on board versus running them into the ground in a round pen. Maybe the coach is working on their training and making them school horses, but in the interest of rider safety she felt it would be better to have some sedation on board versus an injured rider. The ISHA shows I’ve seen have been a bit like a 4H nightmare - some kids are super talented, others hadn’t ridden a day in their life and then tried out because of the electives their college offered.

If the college is routinely drugging every single horse just to get through a show, then you have issues. If the coach is making a judgement call to prevent injury to horse or rider, but working to prepare the horse better each time (through more training and different pre show routines) - then I would personally be pretty happy to be riding with a coach that has that much self awareness who can plan for potential issues. Drugging may not be the “go to” answer, but at least the question is being asked.

[anon6003733]

[QUOTE=kiwichick;n10253037]
“Its very common place over here in eventing, every second person is wandering around with a tube of Ace.”

Really dumbfounded to hear this. We have rigorous random testing systems here at recognized events.

That’s bad news

[alter3974]

@CHT

Talk to the coach directly. If they aren’t hiding it, they are probably willing to discuss whatever it was as well. Then you can decided what to do with actual information

While they didn’t make an effort to hide it, I have a feeling that this type of conversation wouldn’t go over well. Their client base outside of IHSA is largely younger kids with parents who don’t know much about horses, and I think this contributes to the fact that they’ve gotten used to people not questioning their program or training methods.

[alter3974]

@pologirl27

Talk to them directly and get the story. Frankly some of the IHSA horses I witnessed could have used some Ace. The number of people that got run off with in freakin walk-trot-canter on the flat was impressive.

I have no idea if Ace is legal for IHSA horses. I would imagine if your barn was providing all horses and thus they were all aced as needed, I wouldn’t have an issue with it.

I wasn’t sure either, so I did some reading and the IHSA rule book states that administering “any central nervous system drugs” constitutes a violation.

[PREconvert]

The horses used at IHSA shows have to put up with an unknown different rider every 10-15 minutes for a loong show day without stall, trailer, or even hay breaks. And the borrowed/leased horses are dealing with that PLUS an unknown barn and handlers. When you consider that even the most jaded schoolie in a lesson program has to deal with only 1-4 riders per day, and that’s with a familiar trainer and a familiar environment, with stall breaks, you realize just how much is asked psychologically from the IHSA mounts. It’s really a brain fryer. There are only so many perfect horses to go around, many of the rest could use a little help to make the day less stressful. Yes, if a trainer/coach is using ace to make a hot, flighty or very reactive horse seem docile, that’s dangerous because horses can blow through it. But then you’d also probably be seeing signs of a high dose (see below) so I kind of doubt that’s what’s happening. Really, what I bet you are seeing is a little ace used to make a really tough day easier on the nerves of hard working horses.

Your coach is definitely not an outlier, this is how it’s done. If you have an issue with it, your only realistic option is to not participate since even if you got your coach fired and the next hired coach did not use ace, dollars to doughnuts the next away show you go to, some of those horses had some. And really, if too much is given, to where a horse is impaired and would stumble or knock a fence, any judge, coach or savvy riders would see it from half a mile away before they took a step: glazed or half-shut eyes, geldings with their penises dropped.

Ace is a sedative, not a pain killer or anti-inflammatory so it’s not going to cover up lameness or stiffness which I would personally find much more ethically distressing.