I’m guessing the riders also aren’t notified that they’re riding a drugged horse. I would want to know, and would be really angry if I found out that I was. This, to me, is as big an issue as the current reach-for-a-needle culture, and certainly not a way to judge apples to apples in a competition.
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I’d like to clairify that my post absolutely did not mean 25 of 25 horses were aced. It would typically be one or two in lower level horses that were tasked with keeping extremely inexperienced, out of shape riders on over multiple classes.
I also wholeheartedly agree that it is wrong to get someone fired over it because it’s done at pretty much every show, often for the safety and we’ll we’ll of everyone. We aren’t talking extreme doses.
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I showed IHSA for 4 years. I saw horses aced several times.
I disagree with other posters that it’s acceptable.
I have also never seen anyone ace a horse at an event . Recognized eventing has drug tests. Perhaps not in Australia?
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I don’t love the prevalence of drugging horses and in most cases think it is distasteful and wrong. That being said, if it comes down to watching a horse and/or rider be endangered or injured in a class vs. hitting the horse with a bit of ace, hand me the needle.
In IHSA, you have riders with a wide variety of skill level, and a wide variety of horse quality/suitability. And most of the time, the riders are on this horse for the first or second time ever. The fact that your coach isn’t drugging every horse every time makes me believe they knew that those particular horses needed some help on that particular day in order to do their job successfully and safely. I’d ask my coach about the reasoning why. I personally wouldn’t jump to quit the team over it or try to get them fired, but I am also not familiar with the rules around medication in IHSA.
All that being said, if you really can’t stand for this happening, then do what you feel is right for you - can’t go wrong with that approach!
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[quote="“ohmyheck,post:17,topic:452134”]
Thats one persons observation/opinion on tne internet. Not necessarily the state of the sport nationwide. Recognized shows can drug test, unregulated events don’t, no money to run it and no desire to add drug test fees to entries, nobody to administer it and no disciplinary authority with the exception of State mandated and operated programs like Cali.
Far as IHSA, that’s been going on for years, some schools don’t get great, safe, sound and well trained horses as donations. Those horses horses typically get kept in retirement or sold to private homes, not donated as a hard working school horse,.Teams have to deal with putting riders of a wide range of ability, or lack thereof, on horses of often sketchy background with little or no warm up many times in a long day. That’s the challenging reality they face. Personally seen a few run off or deposit their riders in the dirt in very novice divisions and some advanced riders needing to basically wrestle the horse to get it around.
In NO WAY do I support this and it’s certainly not the case at every school. Least if they are, most of them don’t do it openly. But for OP, when you participate in these programs and support them financially the only thing you can really do is leave the program. It’s not your horse and you don’t manage it’s care. And there is a huge gap between the better, fully supported programs and the rest of them.
Dont mean to to be harsh here or dis IHSA programs, some are very well run and ethical. Others just don’t get the safer, sounder horses or funds. You need to chose wisely or simply take lessons at a private training barn with their own privately owned safe, relatively sound school horses instead of depending on the team to provide a donated, often overworked horse.
OP should absolutely speak to the coach here and see what was administered. The time frame suggests to me it might just as likely be an NSAID, not a tranq. That’s not much better as far as horse welfare goes if it needs that for multiple riders and a very long workday.
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The correct thing to do is pull those horses.
I loaned an ex-jumper broodmare every show that was only used for Open. One show she got pulled because even the open riders couldn’t reliably half-halt, and if you just pulled on her face she collected and turned sideways. Not especially safe. Honestly spring shows where she was still fit from foxhunting but 8 months pregnant went better than the fall shows where she wasn’t so preggers. She was a good draw then. We had other horses pulled for similar reasons. Extra warm-up didn’t settle them, or they were bucking in warm-up or something like that. One team member loaned her saddlebred for shows. It was a toss up if the judge and other coaches decided he was too odd a ride to be used. All of our horses were borrowed for shows, so we got everything from western trail horses to prelim eventers. The key was knowing what classes to put them in. We also limited horses to 8 classes per day. Most only did 3 or 4.
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Yet if they pull the horses, some riders won’t get to ride at all. Be careful what you wish for. Guess it comes down to how bad you want to ride. Some of these programs are not operated by the school and the coaches not employed by the school either. Don’t know anybody would get fired here.
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I write as someone who basically has never showed much and was not on an ISHA team when I was in college (ages ago).
I guess I’ve always thought drugging horses before a show was an “in-the-shadows” practice, but the responses here seem to suggest that a lot of posters are just fine with it. Even though the rules explicitly forbid it.
I do understand what people are saying about the loaned horses of questionable training and ability, and the team members of variable backgrounds and abilities, but bottom line: step back and ask “what are these shows supposed to be about?”
Do the ribbons state: “best rider on a drugged horse”? “second best rider on a drugged horse”?
The fact that some of the coaches do it means that the competition becomes a race to the bottom. Those coaches who do administer drugs have an unfair advantage over those who do not.
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It should be noted that this poster is based in the southern hemisphere (Australia and NZ)
American rules prohibit ace at recognized events. And draw reins for that matter too, unless used in a prize giving ceremony.
Em
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I understand your point, although it doesn’t apply to IHSA. All the kids at the show ride the same horses. It’s a random draw where everyone catch-rides. The coach isn’t giving her kids an advantage over others.
I don’t like it, but I get it. I was captain of our IHSA team my senior year, and we had riders on horses at 4 am on show morning to make sure everyone was safe. We pulled a novice/intermediate fences horse that morning, which put more of the workload than we liked on the remaining horses in those two draws. In the right scenario, I could see why you’d make the decision your coach made.
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I guess for me, my thought is - I’d rather have a drugged horse with a use than a non-drugged horse without a use.
In a perfect world, life would be sunshine and rainbows. But we don’t live in a perfect world.
Many college riding programs are either self funded or low funded. They rely on donated horses to function. This isn’t really a situation where you’re building a partnership with a horse you picked based on qualities you like as a rider. You draw a name from a hat and two riders use the same horse to do the same pattern and the better execution wins. It’s not drugged horse vs non drugged horse. From that stand point, it’s a level playing field.
There aren’t as many riders as there used to be. There aren’t as many places for horses as there used to be. If an otherwise competent program is making lemonade out of lemons and uses Ace occasionally, when needed, to have a horse work in their program - that’s preferable to stop #3 on these horses journey - which is usually a sale barn and probably a truck headed south of the border.
These programs can’t afford to feed horses indefinitely if they don’t work. Perhaps the answer is to keep cycling through until you find the gems of school horses who can handle the mental and physical demands of the job 100% of the time with no drug intervention necessary. But - I personally think that is a much, much shittier race to the bottom since there aren’t exactly thousands of loving homes standing with their arms outstretched ready to take on the type of horse that is first, donated to a school since it most likely couldn’t be privately sold and then second, failed at the school.
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I think you may be getting the NCAA and IHSA formats mixed up. NCAA college riding follows the head to head format that you described—two riders ride the same horse over the same pattern. IHSA is different—all riders in the class ride the same course, but everyone randomly draws a different horse. So it would be possible for one rider to draw a drugged horse and ride against someone on a not drugged horse, which was a perspective I had not considered until now.
Also, just to clarify and give some more information, none of the horses used for our team are donated. Most of them are school horse types that the coach selected and the team pays to lease them during the school year. A few others are school horses owned by the coach.
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del
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NCAA is also better funded, to put it mildly, and more heavily supported and overseen by the college. They get much better horses too, some on temporary loan… And riders on full ride scholarships. No comparison to most of the IHSA programs, particularly those on the club level with little or no support or oversight by the school having to scour the auctions for likely mounts.
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^^This. These poor horses have to deal with all kinds of different riders, of all levels (many who are honestly quite clueless). I would need some Ace if I was one of these horses, too. If you haven’t been to an IEA or IHSA show, then perhaps you should take the time to go and watch. In some cases, Ace would honestly be considered more humane for the horse. Personally, I would prefer that they eliminate the super beginner lessons and modify the rules. Just because a rider is showing a made up horse 3’ at an A show doesn’t mean they are truly capable of riding a catch ride at 2’6". Apples to oranges. I feel bad for these horses more than not.
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@Groom&Taxi thank you for the information!
Is it not possible for the coach/team to select more suitable horses? I mean, I know money and availability will play a part, but most school horses I’ve known have been the lazy/kick-types rather than ones you need to ace. Also seems like there are more issues than just the sedating, if the horses are prone to injury with extra work/stress or riders are over-mounted. I guess “random draw” is to make it appear like a level playing field? But it seems like better horsemanship to match horse and rider to ability, especially at beginner-intermediate levels; maybe advanced riders would be ok with random horse selection.
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I wasn’t going to mention IEA and some programs are quite good and well run. But others have a terrible time getting horses and have to make what they can scrounge up work. I was asked to donate my aging ex 3’ AA level Adult Hunter to one of their shows. They estimated 4 or 5 completely unknown riders would be riding it and I had no voice in who rode and who didn’t. Said no and was treated like a meany poo poo head.
They should have thanked me, saw some of those riders and that 18 year old horse would simply have made them regret pulling its name out of that hat, big time, couldn’t ride that horse that way even on the flat let alone over even smaller jumps. And standing around in the ready area for hours waiting to be used would not have been a pleasant experience. Just because they never saw that horse being difficult didn’t mean it couldn’t be, and they never saw it because we didn’t let it behave that way. But novice rider would have been in way over their heads after the 2 min it would take for horse to test the rider. Horse came with a wicked sucker buck and a drop shoulder spin out from under that was sublime in its ability to remove even Pros. Took them thinking it was suitable as a compliment to my riding and trainer guidance.
IMO relying on other people’s horses at the lowest possible cost in these programs ( as opposed to paying for regular lessons or part leasing ) is not the best solution to learning to ride on a budget. There’s an awful lot of pitfalls and just not what you think once you get involved and look under the hood. And there’s not much you can do except not join it. Realize this is an unpopular opinion but it’s based on years watching these programs. Imagine how you would feel if you or your child drew that horse of mine had I caved to the begging to use it.
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I don’t like acing horses but I’d rather old school horses get a little bit of ace than be lunged into the ground before such a long stressful day. I actually really hate IHSA/IEA style of showing and wouldn’t be sad at all if it disappeared (not that I have any delusions that it will). People are sooo unbelievably ungrateful and awful and often times nasty to the horses and sooooo many of them ride horribly. I remember seeing my friends perfect wonderful hunter get kicked and yanked so hard at the same time that he literally had nowhere to go but up. The kid complained about the horse and tried to get a reride but the stewards were like lol no this horse won every class before after that. Anything that makes it easier for the horse while still being safe is fine with me.
At a barn where I rode there was an issue with snow storms leading up to a final and the horses hadn’t been turned out in at least a week because of the ice and had hardly even been ridden at all. They couldn’t reschedule the final because of some conflicting banquet stuff so they had to go that day. Every single one of those horses were aced and that was 100% the right decision because it would’ve been complete carnage otherwise. Those horses never never get aced normally.
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Well, I for one would not recommend the OP saying anything to her coach until they actually witness what is being given to the horse. If the OP saw the coach give the drug/substance themselves that would be different, but right now I couldn’t see the OP strolling up to her coach saying Hey Mary and Susie saw you giving Sparky and Bubbles some ACE,whats up with that Coach?
Originally posted by retired horse but most school horses I’ve known have been the lazy/kick-types rather than ones you need to ace.
The school horses I’ve known have been the saints, the lazy/won’t move types and then the runaways. Sometimes you got one with all 3 traits depending on what you were doing in the lesson LOL.
I think the OP should wait until she has more knowledge of what exactly is being given and why.OP didn’t say if the coach gave the substance orally or by injection. Also what sort of attitude did the horses that got the drugs have? Are they the types that are always pretty fresh or spry? Or are they older horses that maybe didn’t Ace. There are lots of meds/drugs that can be given orally in liquid or paste form or by injection. A quick google search of images show a paste tube of bute and a paste tube of Ace… Once in the hand IMO only a keen observer would know what it was. Bottom line don’t assume the worst unless your coach has a history of questionable tactics.
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I agree 100% with atl_hunter - IHSA should re-evaluate their program. If they are having to drug horses for flat classes, then either the horses or the riders have no business being there, or in some cases both. I’d lean more to the riders being at fault, as I do not know many (any) horses who are incapable of doing a flat class without being aced. If the riders cannot handle a flat class without drugging the horse to make the situation “safe” then they should be in the stands not in the ring. Yeah, it will suck for those beginners, but everyone started there. IME showing is to show case your skills, not barely make it around the ring. At all the barns I have ever been at, if you could not execute skills needed in the class (w/t/c, steer, stop, be balanced) then you didn’t show. Showing is not a right, its a privilege and the horses shouldn’t have to be drugged for the riders.
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