WWYD—coach drugging horses

DING DING DING! Sorry if I used the NCAA format, but regardless - the point I made still stands, OP.

It sounds like you want to quit, so quit. Picking arguments that bolster the argument against it in your head is fine (“a perspective I hadn’t considered before”); not everyone will agree.

However, don’t try to get the poor coach in trouble based on hearsay from your friends.

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My teammates saw the bottle that said acepromazine and saw the bright yellow ace in the syringe, which was then administered IM. I can’t think of any possible reason why my teammates would lie about something like this, especially since none of them seemed to think there was anything wrong with it. But I definitely agree it would be more cut and dry had I witnessed it myself.

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If “that poor coach” drugged horses and knowingly administered a substance that is specifically forbidden by the governing association, they are not a victim. We can have different views on if there is any justification for drugging ever, but please don’t paint the coach that is knowingly breaking the rules as a victim here.

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BUT YOU DID NOT WITNESS IT YOURSELF. You saw nothing, therefore have nothing to say. If someone told me they saw someone give Ace to a horse before a competition my internal reaction “Yaaaawwwwwnnn. RUMOR. Yaaaawwwwnnn” my external reaction “Oh gosh…awww mahhnn geezz look at the time gotta go!!” now if I was 100% certain, no shadow of a doubt that I saw it with my own eyes I would have a different reaction. If you wanted to leave the team anyway just leave the team QUIETLY.

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The administration of a central nervous system drug is against the IHSA rules (see Rule 3501.J). If the OP really wants to know what is going on or how to deal with it, they need to contact their Regional President and discuss options with them.

The IHSA does not in anyway condone the misuse of horses in IHSA shows. Does some bad riding occur - yes. Not all coaches understand that just because a rider is qualified for a division based on the results of the placement form, that does not make the rider actually qualified to enter the show ring. Many riders need to stay at home and practice before attempting to catch ride a horse. Unfortunately, some coaches just don’t understand this and put their students at risk.

Some regions have better shows than others due to the schools that host the shows, the program directors who understand how to have a successful show, and the schools in that particular region. Some regions struggle to get enough shows and have to make due with less than perfect conditions. I would hope those areas are continuing to push their schools to raise the level of showing to compete with the better areas. All school programs are hampered by something, and you just have to make the best of it that you can.

OP - if you contact me via PM, I would be more than willing to discuss this with you as a regional president (of hopefully another region…) and help you take the right steps if you want to pursue this with the IHSA.

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I’m not trying to be snarky, but if you 100% believe your teammates, and ace is your line in the sand… then why would witnessing it firsthand affect your decision to leave (or not)?

Sounds to me like ace is covering up underlying issues of unsuitable horses and lack of riding ability – would you be ok with those things, even without the ace? I understand other posters’ points about ace being the lesser of two evils. But what are you getting out of staying in this program if you don’t agree with its practices?

Unless you have the ability and desire to invoke change/overhaul of horse management or this show system…?

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IM Ace given 20 mins before it gets ridden would not do a thing. You sure they saw it given IM? This is why seeing it firsthand would be better.

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Hrmmm…I only have experience brining one horse to an IHSA show, but that is not at all my experience. I warmed him up, I was his handler all day and he was only ridden in three flat classes (no over fences even though he was a rockstar and I had tons of people asking me about him. He really was the coolest). We had a great experience and if I had the right horse, I would consider donating on a per show basis again.

Huh? That is exactly when I would expect IM ace to be kicking in. Sure, it’s still slower than IV, but when I’m rehabbing one that needs a little help to keep their feet on the ground? I plan 20-30 minutes before I will be on.

I kind of adore that you don’t know what Ace looks like. Makes me happy. Sort of like when my vet had never heard of Reserpine. I pretty much knew she wasn’t administering it all over the place…: :slight_smile:

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Because a few people on here have said I shouldn’t take any action before I see something firsthand, I’m second guessing if my reaction is warrented. It was a spur of the moment conversation at the ring that several people participanted in and several of them agreed that they saw the horses being drugged. There’s no reason for a team member to make something like that up (and others to go along with it) but now I’m wondering if I’m overreacting to the entire thing.

I don’t see our horses as being unsuitable. Absolutely they can come out fresh, but the first ones sitting on them in the morning were open riders that wouldn’t have an issue with that. I lesson on these horses every week and even on their worst day I can’t imagine them being totally feral and dirty and dumping someone.

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OP- I can relate to you here. I was warm up rider/manager for all horses at my school when I was riding IHSA. I was always at the barn before anyone else on show days, and did I witness horses being aced? Yes- but not all of them. My first initial thought was “is this against the rules?” but then I thought that because the IHSA isn’t “technically” run through the USEF (or maybe it is? I don’t even know), it wasn’t a big deal. I can understand the reasoning as to why the idea would be entertained, for reasons other posters have stated: freshness, the different riders, psychological reasons etc. I have seen some of our most bombproof school horses lose their minds by the 4th section of 2A or 2B but I think what it comes down to is the trainers and coaches might be trying to get these horses through the day to accommodate all the rides they have posted. In my opinion, the most ethical and responsible thing to do would be to limit the rides, but when people are paying $30 or more a class, they might be thinking about the dollar signs more, which is sad. But then again, that doesn’t go for everyone. Since you are bothered by it, Wait until the next show and see if you can firsthand witness this happening, if you see it, I would then take action. Not that I’m saying that your teammates are lying, but if you are going to make the accusation you’re gonna need evidence to back it up, especially if you want to have your coach removed. Good Luck!

Don’t know how to quote yet but just adding that if @kiwichick is in NZ it is absolutely NOT common to drug or use draw reins in eventing. I don’t know who she’s hanging out with but you NEVER see this in the SI at least. Not impressed at all to hear this if it is happening up North :frowning:

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My draw reins comments was just a generalised training comment, aka, whats acceptable to one person vs someone else. I dont see draw reins at events, but everywhere in training.

There is plenty of ace around if you look, you will see it more at a multiple day event, than a one off (where it can be administered prior)
Its also a banned substance here, but the testing at unrecognised events isnt at all rigerous.
Im not suggesting the people are terrible people, just that different people have different limits. There are a load of other calmers and mood enhancers that are available OTC too, potassium bromide can be pretty close to a sedative.

I don’t think you’re overreacting or that it’s a bad thing to be dismayed that a coach might be/probably is sedating horses to show.

But I would think your course of action will be determined by what you’d like the outcome to be? Like…

If you think talking to coach will make you feel better about why ace is being used, so you can condone showing & staying on the team, I suppose you could attempt to approach the coach and ask non-accusatory questions (though some people won’t like this either, and may not take it well). I don’t think they will have a better reason than what’s already been brought up. And probably won’t change their mind/program just because you’re questioning them.

If you want to have coach removed, or something official to happen (is there anything in your rule book about drugs?), or team/program policy to change, I agree with the others that it’s better if you have firsthand proof. Or if those other teammates that saw it want to come forward too.

(Maybe a higher up could convince coach not to use ace – though, you’d have to weigh if that’s in the best interest of the horses, if they’re going to have to show anyway. If the ace makes their lives easier too, not just the riders’ and coach’s. Not sure if your horses are traveling to shows, but even if they are not, the general atmosphere of shows and lessons can be different enough to set some off or set them up to become worked up or even something like tying up or other unwanted behaviors.)

If you want to leave, then I think you can just leave.

I would speak with your faculty advisor about the incident. There is a risk of liability for the univeristy of that drugged horse trips and falls with a rider particularly since its administration is not allowed per the rules.

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This.

It’s also not a great look for a school to condone the breaking of rules in a sport.

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The two choices are not “drugged horse” or “horse on a meat truck.” There are other choices like “learn to ride better - yes, even a difficult horse” and “have the trainer school the horses at home if they have behavioral quirks”

We had classes where we had to swap horses growing up. There was no Ace.

I wouldn’t be participating in a sport where the animals must be drugged to ride, and get ridden as much as is described here. Not OK morally.

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I called out the coaches for drugging horses used for IHSA shows and lessons. It led, ultimately, to my leaving that institution.

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The poor coach? Who’s drugging horses? PLEASE. It’s against IHSA rules. This is what is wrong with our sport. I can’t believe the number of people on this thread that consider Acing a horse to show it to be acceptable. The coach has a moral decision to make, do they feel comfortable drugging unsuitable horses so college students can have a 2 minute ride and get a ribbon? Do we find it acceptable that the horse we are jumping has been drugged? I’m not talking about drugging a horse for rehab.

What right do we have to complain about cheaters if we in turn advocated drugging horses as no big deal?

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Mirrors my experience/opinion. What is most upsetting is that the rider has no way of knowing if she is on an Aced horse, when it was Aced, how much, etc. It’s not bad enough that you’re getting on cold turkey to jump a strange horse but it might also be drugged.

I have ridden an Aced horse (for rehab) once. It was not a safe feeling. AT ALL. I never want to do it again.

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Mirrors a couple of Pros I know who did a stint as IHSA coaches. They quit. They understood why but did not care to continue participation. They also felt as pressured to produce results as any coach fielding a college team. Interestingly, they coached a good twenty years apart. Same experience.

I participated as a student in a predecessor of IHSA. I quit too. 40 years ago. Same reasons. I understood why then as now, voted with my feet and wallet. Long as students want to ride in sketchy programs it’s not going to stop.

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