Yes it is possible! I don’t jump much any more, but I take my horses to Daniel Geitner on an as needed basis. It has worked very well for me and my students.
Its great that you found a trainer that you respect and enjoy. I agree with others - that can be difficult to find, especially in certain areas. I know many successful trainers who no longer ride, but all of the ones I know either employ someone who can ride difficult/green horses or have access to someone like what mroades suggested. Without knowing you, your goals, or the horse you end up with, it would be impossible to guess if you’ll need professional rides over jumps. IMHO, a good trainer recognizes a “problem” developing and seeks out help if they are unable to solve it before it becomes a real issue. (I think that applies to more than your situation.) I hope that your conversation goes well with your trainer, because you sound like a reasonable person. That is as hard to find as a good trainer! 
Most problems people have jumping are problems created between jumps - no need to jump to fix that. And you clearly feel she can coach you over jumps. All you really need is, not necessarily a new full-time trainer, but for your trainer to know another trainer in your area that can help if you run into a problem you are unable to work through with her help from the ground. IME, such problems usually aren’t finesse problems, they are issues where “you” feel unsafe working through something, so it may even be that her working students have the ability to get through them with her help. And if they can’t, your trainer should be able and willing to recommend a supplemental trainer temporarily who can. A good trainer is good about reaching out to other trainers for help when they don’t know how or are unable to fix something themselves.
[QUOTE=ezstreet;7598250]
But bottomline, so it is possible for a good trainer to train a good jumping horse without ever jumping it? Thanks again everyone![/QUOTE]
It depends. I don’t think this is a question that has the black and white answer you’re looking for.
The answer will depend on what type of horse you get (is it green and easy/honest? Green with a peek? Green and unconfident? Green with playing on the backside? Green meaning 30 days under tack? Green meaning doing the baby greens? Etc.), what kind of rider you are and what you can adequately handle with someone walking you through it, and how good of an instructor and trainer she is.
I don’t think you’re necessarily wrong coming here for advice, but please don’t make your decision and up and leave your trainer without at least having an honest conversation first. That would be unbelievably unfair.
“Trainer, I’m worried that my skills won’t be adequate enough over fences to bring along a greenie. What are your thoughts considering you don’t jump these days?”
She may have a variety of solutions/suggestions. The worst thing you could do at this point is make a decision based on what ifs. If she can’t jump anymore, more than likely she’s had to deal with this situation before.
Also, if you want to stay with her, then sit down and figure out what she thinks you CAN handle. Look for that type of horse. Quiet, easy greenie types ARE out there. There’s one in my barn that needs a pro ride only since the owner is an unconfident 2’ rider, but he could easily develop with a 3’-3’3 ammy rider under guidance from a trainer and pro rides on the flat/poles. (He’s not expensive, either).
Riding is a partnership between horse and rider. One partnership (trainer/client horse) does not necessarily translate to another (client/client horse).
One reason why so many amateurs fail to form strong enough partnerships with their own horses is that many trainers spend TOO much time training horses that aren’t necessarily ‘pro’ rides and not enough time helping their ammy riders do it themselves.
It’s actually not all that hard to do…more ammy’s are more than capable. You likely are, too. But you need to get out of the mindset that it takes an absolute expert to accomplish what you want to do–it really doesn’t. It takes time, patience, intelligence, and a good program to follow. If the horse is an appropriate one for you, a good trainer on the ground is all else you’ll need.
Are you sure of her assistants limitations to work with a greener horse?
I think you should talk to your trainer about what you are looking for. Are you sure of YOUR ability to get something greener.
Your trainer sounds like a gem and I would personally reflect very carefully about moving away from that
Bottom line, YES it’s possible for a good trainer to train a good jumping horse without riding it. Obviously they need to have a rider, either owner or an advanced Junior or competent Adult on the horse under their supervision. But many, many competent to elite level BNTs no longer ride at all let alone jump.
I would caution you to beware the grass is greener on the other side of the fence syndrome. It sounds like budget is a concern and I’d bet part of the reason this trainer is cheaper is that she no longer can ride over fences. So, what are you willing to give up going to another affordable trainer that can ride? Why are they cheaper? Poor care? Dishonest? Lazy? Borderline unethical or flat dishonest? Or the trump card, they ride but don’t know what they are doing with a tack room full if gadgets and gimmicks? Beware.
I’d be staying and work something out with her, possibly the WS. And, no, I don’t think you will hurt her pride- she knows she can’t ride over fences and probably better off not riding a real Green, unpredictable horse given her physical limitations.
Good luck.
[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;7597681]
The trainer is still working around horses - I doubt, if she had a good eye to begin with, that she has lost any of it now. If she has been away from horses for years, then I would worry. I used to think you had to put your money where your mouth is, but think about the show riders out there - their trainers often do not ride any
more and they have successful students.[/QUOTE]
No longer being able to jump a horse does not indicate a decline in the ability to teach or train. The object is to teach you to the ride the horse, and learning training approaches should be part of it.
In my experience these trainers are often better at finding the amateur friendly horse, even when it is green. They know they aren’t going to be able to jump it and try to fix things, so they have a tendency to buy the correct horse in terms of temperment for their riders.
I think sometimes the trainers that are jumping all the time will take chances as they know they can work with the horse and figure with time it will be correct for the student.
It may take longer to find the right horse with your current trainer, but if they are good at their job you may end up with the better horse.
You’ve already heard the advice to talk to your trainer about it, which I echo.
Someone who has a great eye and knows their stuff and can convey it to you is incredibly valuable, more valuable than someone who can get on and ride your horse for you. There are techniques for working with you together on the flat and via gymnastics that will let you work on various issues one thing at a time, in a way that you and your horse can learn. And most likely, your trainer has other students or colleagues who could ride the horse if that becomes necessary.
If you want to own a green horse, having someone who is experienced at teaching you is really essential, assuming that the point is that you will ride and compete your new horse. What better way than to do the work with you in the irons?
On the other hand, if that’s not something you enjoy, you might consider rethinking your plan. Your budget probably can also manage an older been-there-done-that horse with maintenance needs, something less fancy or a less common breed, or a half-lease, or another arrangement that might suit you better.
[QUOTE=M. O’Connor;7598849]
Riding is a partnership between horse and rider. One partnership (trainer/client horse) does not necessarily translate to another (client/client horse).
One reason why so many amateurs fail to form strong enough partnerships with their own horses is that many trainers spend TOO much time training horses that aren’t necessarily ‘pro’ rides and not enough time helping their ammy riders do it themselves.
It’s actually not all that hard to do…more ammy’s are more than capable. You likely are, too. But you need to get out of the mindset that it takes an absolute expert to accomplish what you want to do–it really doesn’t. It takes time, patience, intelligence, and a good program to follow. If the horse is an appropriate one for you, a good trainer on the ground is all else you’ll need.[/QUOTE]
:yes::yes::yes::yes:
This bears repeating. I understand different people have different goals / time available etc - but I do not think this trend for riders to be come TOTALLY dependent on their trainers is beneficial to the riders, or the horses.
One has to ask themselves - is their trainer producing a “rider” or a “horsemen”? And which do you wish to be?
I am forever grateful to the trainers that “brought me up”. They not only taught me how to ride, they taught me how to train. Now, many years later, I do not have to be totally dependent on a trainer - they taught me how to be an independent rider. How to trouble shoot, how to TRAIN.
Now I am able to bring my own horse along from scratch, and let me tell you - it is VERY rewarding!
I am so grateful for the education my mentors gave me. For the independence I am able to enjoy now.
So I talked to my trainer and she basically solidified everything you guys were saying plus more. If I feel uncomfortable or she feels the horse needs to be jumped by someone more advanced she will arrange it :). Furthermore, she basically echoed what was being said that she is out to create true horsewomen, not just riders, and as long as we are ok and understand that progress might be slower and ribbons not quite always blue, the end result is much sweeter than simply being a passenger packed around on dead broke horses. I feel so much better and cannot thank everyone enough for all their imput!
Awesome news! Ezstreet!
If she is a good trainer she can break it down and teach YOU how to bring your horse along.
It may take a little longer and proceed in smaller increments, but by the end you won’t be an intermediate rider anymore.
Sounds perfect. It’s not like she’s unaware of her limitations, and I’m sure that if there’s a hump that you can’t get over she’ll find a way to help you.
FWIW, I’m an ammy and brought along my two with very limited trainer rides (I don’t think a trainer ever sat on one of them). As long as you respect that it takes time and some days will be better than others, it can be done. I’m currently bringing along one more and there are certainly days when I’m ready to hand over the reins to someone else and get them to deal with it - and then I remind myself that there isn’t anyone else on my farm so I better get it done or little miss will get some bad habits ingrained.
Some days it’s one step forward, two steps back. You will at least have someone on the ground who is competent watching you to prevent some of those steps back, or to suggest a different approach. There are many days when I don’t have that option. :winkgrin:
For me I absolutely would have to train with a trainer who jumps or at least has a very competent assistant. It is because I can only ride a few days a week. I want someone who knows what they are doing to school my horse over fences to keep him tuned up.
The trainers at my barn are very capable of riding everything BUT they believe it is the journey and the bond. The only time they will get on is if for some reason what they are trying to teach is not working… They can teach you through it so you know your horse and YOU have the skills. Being a passenger is not riding.
So glad it worked out.
Enjoy the journey…
[QUOTE=ezstreet;7602158]
So I talked to my trainer and she basically solidified everything you guys were saying plus more. If I feel uncomfortable or she feels the horse needs to be jumped by someone more advanced she will arrange it :). Furthermore, she basically echoed what was being said that she is out to create true horsewomen, not just riders, and as long as we are ok and understand that progress might be slower and ribbons not quite always blue, the end result is much sweeter than simply being a passenger packed around on dead broke horses. I feel so much better and cannot thank everyone enough for all their imput![/QUOTE]
:D;)
I’m a bit disturbed by this post as an older trainer who does not jump any more either. Judge the record and if her other riders are competent. Do they win regularly? Do they ride well? Does she teach them how to ride their horses well and help them develop successful partnerships? Do the horses jump comeptently and confidently? If the answer to these questions is yes, then understand she will teach you how to do the same thing… Green, made or in-between - if you don’t believe your trainer can teach you how to ride it competently then there’s your answer - leave. If she can, stay & don’t screw up a good working relationship. They are harder to find than you might think.
My trainer had a serious, serious injury at age 18. She continued training riders and horses—without riding at all—to the upper levels of the equitation and jumping arenas. We’re talking Maclay finals here. When she did start riding again, very gingerly, it was in her mid 40s. In spite of her injuries, she ended up showing in the 1.40s and upwards (!) and did ride client horses for a while, including jumping, but stopped when the amount of ibuprofen required to block the neck and arm pain became unreasonable. She did train me—a green rider, on a green horse—to become a competent and confident rider. I can say with much pride that while I may not be the eq queen (in spite of her best efforts) I can stick a buck and a rear like nobody’s business, and I feel that I’ve learned a huge amount over the years. Now that I own a made horse as well as the horses we made together, I can’t get over how incredibly easy it is to ride a horse that’s already trained…lol
