I have a young warmblood gelding I’ve been debating for some time what to do with. Recently I started working with a trainer who will come to us. She said if she felt comfortable with him, she would consider doing pro rides. After a couple sessions with us struggling to get him in front of the leg and using himself correctly, she volunteered to get on. He did not respond well AT ALL. Luckily no one was hurt. But it did raise that fear in my mind, what if my horse had caused serious harm? My heart was in my throat the whole time and it was honestly pretty frightening to watch. She didn’t say she was uncomfortable continuing to work with us or anything definitive like that, but I’m reluctant to continue engaging her because I don’t want to see anyone to get hurt …and also on some level because it freaked me out to see my horse do those things? I know my horse needs to work through these things to progress and achieve more in his life, and it may not be pretty, but I’m afraid if it’s not done correctly, it could really undermine his confidence and sour his attitude toward work, and also injure someone in the process.
Call 911 if necessary. They are professionals and should be carrying insurance. I’d feel bad, but not responsible.
Think the real catcher here is that (it sounds like) it’s on your property, and that changes everything about this question. Assume you are requiring them to have their own liability insurance & sign a release. Hope some other prop owners can chime in.
I hate to turn this thread sideways, but I’d be considering if this horse is worth all this effort.
Lots of nice horses out there…
I’d be finding the money to send my horse TO a professional for 30-60 days if I were in your shoes. If it’s at their facility, where they have the resources to handle a rogue horse - it’s one thing. If it’s your facility - I think it’s entirely another.
As an aside, I don’t have a high opinion of trainers who are willing to do house calls. Most folks worth their salt have their own home base for exactly this reason. Facilities (round pen, safe fencing, good footing) that they know and are comfortable with, with more $/hour in one place than trucking around to various locations.
Sounds like this was more of a coach, than a trainer, until she offered to get on. I’ve know a few over the years that would go to clients homes to give lessons that had their own location.
I previously had him in a program but pulled him out. He seemed to get worse every month and eventually I gave up and brought him home to save money while I figured out a way to get rid of him (without duping anyone in the process, because I felt duped after I got him). But then having him at home with me, he became a different horse, and I really do enjoy him. It’s possible he is just not cut out to do any more than what he is doing right now. But I felt that given how far he had progressed with just me working with him, I shouldn’t underestimate his potential. I thought starting with a trainer once a week coming to us would be a small step in the right direction and less risky than trying to get back in another program.
Why worry about the potential the horse may have? As far as he is concerned, the world is eat, sleep and a few minutes of playing with a human. Not all horses are athletic superstars. But neither are humans. Enjoy the journey you are on, rejoice in the improvements you see and be proud of the knowledge you are developing.
I have had plenty of experiences where trainers got on my horse and made the situation VERY bad. I’ve also had a very small handful who know what the horse is trying to tell them and have a conversation rather than DEMANDING. What are the reasons why you need someone else on him?
And, FWIW, I’ve seen enough across the past decades to be more inclined to thoughtfully and fully explore why horses are not doing what we’re asking of them, rather than ascribe it to bad attitude or not wanting to do the work. I’m 1 million percent done with crank and spank.
As a trainer that was recently seriously injured by a client’s horse:
In my case, I was an idiot to get on the horse and own that fact. Horse is a spoiled older horse and expecting him to tolerate being made to go forward at a horse show was a big mistake. That said, I do have some, (perhaps misplaced) anger towards the owner, although I really hope she doesn’t know that. My anger is probably misdirected. I am a grown up who can make my own educated decisions, but i did feel manipulated. Don’t manipulate/cry/beg trainer to ride your horse…it doesn’t sound like you did or would.
The owner felt horrible when it happened, and still feels horrible. She did step up and organize people to look after the barn while I was in the hospital (DH was out of the country).
When you ask WWYD, I am guessing you would also feel horrible. And honestly, people here are talking more about $$, but a professional takes on a responsibility as the “expert” and as long as you didn’t withhold information, you should not be liable (I am not a lawyer, and am in Canada…we are less sue happy).
My guess is your pro may feel pressure to help with a quick fix/sudden improvement as I felt at that horse show. Perhaps letting her know you are fine with a slower improvement may really help make the situation better/safer.
I know of five local pros who all suffered serious injury on a client’s horse. It happens. Only you can know how you will feel about it, and how you will feel about your horse after.
I appreciate you sharing your perspective and what comes through for me is the need to step back from the quick fix. Any time (imho) emotions (horse, owner or trainer) are jacked up because of a sense of urgency, things won’t go well.
Getting on green or “problem” horses is always a risk. Especially if they are not your own, and you may not know them as well as you know your own. Someone who comes to you once a week isn’t going to know this horse well. There are “cowboy types”, who think that a wild ride is somewhat “fun”. They all get hurt eventually, it seems. Sometimes someone like that may get the horse functional for you, but often they may not. I had one local one who told me that “if a horse bucks with him, he likes to be able to hit it with a whip in the eye, because that really hurts, and the horse learns to not do that any more”. I kid you not. I backed away carefully, in shock and dismay. This fella came recommended as “a great guy to start a green horse”. These types are out there… beware. The very best are those with a ton of confidence and experience, and a quiet, calm and confident way with horses. Riders who do not get on the horse until the horse is ready, and has the knowledge that is required before that happens. Sometimes it takes a while to get to that point. Depends on the rider, and the horse. But the risk of making a mistake at this point is still always there. Those who do this work accept the risk.
As with all horses, you need to find a trainer who will work with the horse daily, identify the problems or resistances or fears that the horse has, and work the horse through those things. Give the horse confidence, and guidance, and reward for the right choices. Teach him what you want him to know… “forward from the leg”, “steering”, “give to pressure” and that it’s OK for a human to be sitting on his back. If there is a physical issue/problem that is causing an issue with the training, identify that. Fix it if possible. If not possible, your horse is not a riding horse prospect.
The right trainer will give a horse confidence, and the horse will enjoy the training, become interested in the relationship that is developing, and want to please the trainer/rider. If your horse isn’t getting that, then the trainer is not as skilled as they profess to be. There is a LOT of that around, folks to claim skill, and actually have practically NONE. Don’t get sucked in. Your horse and your bank account will suffer, for no reason. Good luck!
I’d like to add that some people who can ride well or teach riding really don’t know how to train horses. Riding a nicely made horse is very different than riding a green one or one w problems….at least, to me.
I recall your situation and am sad to say I was right when I told you the horse would react poorly if you (or someone) put more pressure on him.
A really “nice” horse sold for cents on the dollar off the A circuit isn’t an easy fix.
Previous thread: How long would you wait before moving your horse to a more challenging environment/job?
I should also say, as an attorney, that I hope you disclosed the history to the trainer. If not, you might be liable.
Is this the same living boarding situation and trainer that you posted about before? If so, sounds like the trainer knows his history. But also isn’t really a trainer. Do they have insurance?
More importantly, have you tried upping the pressure incrementally towards treating him like a trainer riding horse? How has that gone? Are you still working on a loose rein? Can he load in the trailer yet?
With this horse’s baggage, you’ve got to be really careful who gets on and who handles him. It sounds like this trainer is not the person. You also can absolutely shut down the training session if it’s bad. Yeah, horse will have gotten to stop for the day. But horse won’t be learning anything good anyway. This kind of horse needs a quiet conversation over perhaps a large number of sessions. It is not a quick tune up kind of horse. Yet. Maybe he’ll get there one day. He is restarting from less than 0, as restarts are often harder than blank slates.
If your trainer has been helping you make progress from the ground, continue on that way, but talk about some strategies for addressing the problems. If you have stalled, it might be time to learn from elsewhere. Or go back some steps and find the thing you missed.
This is a different trainer, younger but recommended by the farm owner. Definitely disclosed the full history with video where possible. She has a trailer and that’s part of the arrangement—weekly lessons with the possibility of her getting on when she felt appropriate, working up to trailering, and eventually training off-property. We did a couple lessons with me riding prior to this. I thought the lessons were going well. My horse was holding up fine, maybe a little tail flicking and head tossing but no feet leaving the ground, despite lots of leg, crop, and adrenaline. He just wasn’t moving or using himself the way she wanted, so she suggested swapping and I felt he would be fine.
Prior to leaving our previous training program, he had his teeth done, 4 weeks on omeprazole, a professional saddle fit (and I bought a new saddle), regular chiro visits, and a 30-day bute trial that did not effect any positive behavioral change. After we left, I pulled his shoes, reduced his hay (previously had free choice round bale, now he gets a big slow feed hay net because we aren’t set up for round bales here), and he’s in a stall that opens to a small dry lot run-out. Before, he was stalled 12hrs and out 12hrs on grass pasture with other horses. This is just to give detail on how his management has changed and also what I’ve looked into with respect to his health and soundness.
Yes I thought I recalled the situation too. Well, OP you have your answer. It’s too soon to put pressure on this horse.
You haven’t been riding long and were convinced by a bad trainer to purchase a horse way outside your league to ride and train.
Sell the horse for a big loss, and buy a suitable one. That’s my honest advice, as an amateur with many years experience boarding often unsuitable horses for owners way outside their competence level, that I had no involvement in the purchase.
So glad to have my current trainer, who is willing to put her foot down and insist on an appropriate temperament!
I’ll say the same thing here I said on that thread. You somehow managed to balance all the spinning plates. Stop trying to change things or accept that it will very likely all fall apart if you do.
Honestly this horse sounds like an accident waiting to happen and it’s just a matter of time.
