WWYD? Turned away at the gate...

Some background:

I did not hunt much at all this fall because I had not paid my dues and I frankly did not have the funds available to pay the cap regularly. I thought I could pay my dues about six weeks go and emailed the secretary to expect the check. Within about two weeks, I incurred a huge and unexpected expense on one of my horses that threw me 10k behind. Two weeks ago, I called the master and told him that I was embarrassed to admit that I had not hunted because I couldn’t afford it. He told me then that my presence was much wanted and told me to just pay the cap until I had reached the membership dues. I told him that I would do that, thanking him profusely, and told him that I would pay in full in January if not sooner. All was well.

So I paid for two hunts, one $100 cap and one $150. I had already hunted one time before then but he had told me to just keep paying and there was no issue.

Today, I showed up for a meet and the secretary ran up to me in my trailer and (rather loudly) told me that “we have no tolerance for people who do not pay and if you do not give me a check for $500 now, then you will need to leave.” She followed this up by stating that I had hunted 5 times and paid for only two meets so I owed that amount immediately in back capping fees. I attempted to reason with her to no avail, and then turned around and drove home.

I sent her an email stating that I truly did not believe I owed that much and that I was disappointed in the public humiliation. Secretary then sends me a pretty curt email stating that I owe $250 (what happened to the $500) if I wanted to huntcapped 3 times so therefore I would need to pay the full fees in addition to back caps of $250 if I wanted to hunt again. Oh, and she added that any humiliation I might experience is self-inflicted as I had been so unappreciative of the generosity of the XXH in allowing me to hunt on an “IOU”

So… I sure hope that the master/long time family friend calls me about this and I sure hope I get some sort of apology. Regardless, I do not see how I could go back after what transpired today. I am truly humiliated and aghast and hurt (it takes a lot for me to cry and believe me I have been crying). This also comes at the end of a hideous week at work and working for the past 15 days with no day off until yesterday and today.

this all feels so darned wrong…

How upsetting and completely inappropriate! You have every right to be offended by this --but I hope you will consider the following advise since I LOVE foxhunting and I’d hate to see anyone leave a club or a meet feeling so unsettled.

To resolve the problem to your satisfaction --I assume you would like an apology (deserved) and to once again have the opportunity to ride out with this group . . .

Remembering that most MFH might not be computer literate, write a snail mail that simply asks for clarification --make no mention of the secretary’s rude and uncalled for behavior --we’ll deal with that later, but for now, you need to find out what you need to do to settle what ever financial problem there is --and there may be none --secretaries and treasurers (at least in our club) have been known to confuse members and apply cash capping fees to the wrong guest --so this may be a mix up --give the officers a chance to straighten it out. Send a copy of your snail mail to the President of the club, the treasurer, and any/all MFH --something very brief as “I was surprised to be informed that I could not ride out on (date) as there was some confusion as to my pre-paid capping --perhaps I have misunderstood; but I thought the X amount was enough to cover the X times I rode out. Please clarify so that I may plan my capping accordingly as I do enjoy riding out with this hunt.”

When the $ is all settled (hopefully to your satisfaction) --I would speak privately to the rude secretary. Explain that you were sorry to have caused her such concern, but the debt was a mistake (or was settled) and you hope going forward that conversations will be more cordial between you. Then smile like the Dowager on Dawnton Abby, and pretend she doesn’t exist. After all, it’s so difficult to deal with such people, isn’t it?

My suggestion, anyway, and if had been my hunt club --I would have called you by now to apologize.

Foxglove

Honestly…If people are your friends…most will not give it a second thought. There will be the bitchy few that like to gossip but honestly, they will always gossip about anything and be ignored by anyone whose opinion really should matter. This isn’t even interesting gossip…come on, its not like you cheated openly with someone’s spouse!

This just really hurt you more because you are under other stresses…try to not confuse that and blow this up bigger in your mind. It is not a big deal.

That said…the Secretary however has been outted as an A$$$ and THAT reputation will follow them for a long long time. But even still…they likely have other issues going on. Multiple people not paying, other stresses in their life. Don’t let it get to you. Do whatever you want to do but try and not be stressing about this.

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;8432754]
This just really hurt you more because you are under other stresses…try to not confuse that and blow this up bigger in your mind. It is not a big deal.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this, and I’m so sorry this happened to you.

Foxglove’s letter sounds like just the thing. I hope you work this out very quickly and are soon back in the saddle hunting again, and I hope that your first day back the Master brings you with him. If you don’t ride to the meet with them, I hope he makes it a point to speak to you or invite you to ride up front or some other action that shows everyone, without words or making a fuss, that you are a welcome member of your hunt. If Mr. Secretary has class, he will do something similar.

Good luck! and Happy Hunting!

I like Foxglove’s approach. After the kerfuffle has been figured out, for the good or bad, you may want to have a conversation with the MFHs to let them know how this type of situation is being handled. There should be a more private and respectable way to handle a back dues / unpaid cap situation. If the MFH has made a deal with you, then in some way, it needs to get to those who are “responsible” for dues/cap collection.

I’m sorry for your experience. It was callous and rude to have the situation addressed in such a manner. I think I would have had to tell the SOB to take it up with the MFH.

As a former Honorary Secretary-Treasurer, I will just observe that communications between the Secretary (or Field Secretary if there is one) and the Master are pretty essential. Herding Masters can be a challenge, but I might tend to ask if there’s anything I need to know about any guests coming on a particular day, but I would also expect a Master to say to me, oh by the way, I spoke with Jane Doe about her membership and I have given her permission to just keep capping until her dues are paid up.’

Our hunt did have a season limit of three caps. It can be a judgment call, if you told me you had spoken with the Master and here is what the Master authorized, I’d be more inclined to take your cap and speak with the Master later to make sure the story is accurate, I know who you are after all and can hunt you down later if you are telling me tales!

My biggest problem was the ‘usual suspects,’ folks who are professional ‘cap around’ types, who when you approach them to collect the fee, will say ‘oh, I am a guest of the Master.’ Of course ideally the Master remembers to tell you who might be coming as his/her guest, but if not you certainly check it out. This leads to my PSA of the day: If a Master says to you, ‘come hunt with us some time,’ he or she is NOT inviting you to hunt for free. You ARE being invited to hunt for free if the Master says, please come hunt AS MY GUEST some time. Sorry, I have minorly digressed!

I would hope that you receive an apology. The hunt field is NOT the place (IMO) to have this discussion. Publicly flogging members does not encourage members to stay!

I would take Foxglove’s advice.

BTW, there have been people at our hunt who have experienced financial difficulties. Hell, it happens to lots of us! We have always tried to work with them.

Wow, I don’t have any advice, but I am so so sorry. That is crazy and completely uncalled for.

While I won’t excuse the public behavior of the Secretary/Treasurer, I do respect that they are often placed in difficult situations like this one.

As Beverley stated, it’s important that the Masters communicate any sort of “backdoor agreement” with the Secretary/Treasurer to prevent situations like this from arising. Masters are generally not in the position to work out payment plans with the membership, but if they have accepted one, they have a responsibility to share it with the club’s Treasurer.

All that said I would also argue that the Secretary in most clubs does not have the authority to turn anyone away, and i’m quite surprised that no Master intervened to prevent you from going home without having hunted. That said, perhaps some clubs have delegated this authority down. Either way, a real breakdown in communication with the club. :frowning:

It’s a peculiar situation, but all you can do is have an up front conversation with your Master about what you owe, what determines your amateur/pro status (your hunt’s requirements may be different than the USEF), what the plan should be going forward, and a request that the Master please communicate any agreed upon details to the Secretary.

Though it may be difficult, I would NOT allow the rude comments of one person to affect you. If someone has a problem with manners, that is THEIR problem, not yours. People speak for themselves, and when this person stood up and publicly discussed financial matters and dismissed you from the hunt the main message they delivered to anyone who overheard was that they are a boor. People will forget the words, but they won’t forget how the Secretary treated someone. Personally I also wouldn’t be too worried about an apology. Mainly, I think you should get this situation straightened out properly and then continue on.

Oh, wait, never mind. I just read Foxglove’s post. Please just go back and read that one more time.

Maybe you should have had a quiet conversation with the Master before being turned away.

Well all is well. I received a lovely phone call from the master who apologized profusely for my “having been treated poorly and with such disrespect.” All is good now and as it was before. This occurred following a board meeting.

Back to the hunt field!!!

[QUOTE=Beverley;8443837]

This leads to my PSA of the day: If a Master says to you, ‘come hunt with us some time,’ he or she is NOT inviting you to hunt for free. You ARE being invited to hunt for free if the Master says, please come hunt AS MY GUEST some time. Sorry, I have minorly digressed![/QUOTE]

Thank you. I did have a master invite me to hunt with them when they are hunting the land adjacent to my property. But she did not say “as my guest”. But my neighbor said she had been told we could cap for free. I probably would not want to pay, since I hunt there weekly with my farmer’s pack (and ride there several time a week in addition). If I were to pay to cap with this particular hunt, I would want it to be somewhere new!

OP, please keep us posted. I feel for you!

kcmel, indeed in the situation you describe, the only way to know for sure is to show up with the capping fee and either the secretary says oh no, you are our guest today, or, in my experience, the Master comes and finds you and returns your check saying no, you are our guest. I’d be with you, I’d want to see new scenery if I have to pay! Unclear to me whether you are technically also a landowner, but back in the day, landowners simply hunted for free, anywhere in the hunt country, wearing whatever attire they chose to wear.

I know nothing about foxhunting or how it works, but as a SOCIAL thing, what an awful way for the secretary to treat you! It is never appropriate to create a scene. There is no reason they couldn’t have walked up to you, quietly told you what was going on, and then if you needed to leave, so be it. The matter is between you and the club; not the whole world.

Some people’s characters truly shine through. :eek:

I do agree not to worry about what others think. It’s pretty obvious who the jerk was in this situation.

[QUOTE=Minor Altercation;8444993]
Well all is well. I received a lovely phone call from the master who apologized profusely for my “having been treated poorly and with such disrespect.” All is good now and as it was before. This occurred following a board meeting.

Back to the hunt field!!![/QUOTE]

What a good Master and his/her action would give me the confidence to keep hunting with that club.

As for the Hunt Secretary that made this a smack down, I’d be curious to learn if this is typical manners or if they too were having a rough spot and just flat out blew it.

Congrats on getting a positive resolution!

[QUOTE=Beverley;8445083]
kcmel, indeed in the situation you describe, the only way to know for sure is to show up with the capping fee and either the secretary says oh no, you are our guest today, or, in my experience, the Master comes and finds you and returns your check saying no, you are our guest. I’d be with you, I’d want to see new scenery if I have to pay! Unclear to me whether you are technically also a landowner, but back in the day, landowners simply hunted for free, anywhere in the hunt country, wearing whatever attire they chose to wear.[/QUOTE]

Today, landowners typically pay a reduced fee but no hunt I know of allows them to hunt for free. My hunt charges landowners about 1/2 of the full membership. They follow the same rules as everyone else.

Interesting. Saw this on the ‘front page’ of the forums and had to click.

Really, a first world problem, isn’t it?

Having a 100K equestrian side business that suffers a loss once, compared to it being common place for full time pros to lose year after year, and manage to keep afloat somehow, paying the bank, staff, and other bills, with horse shows operating on a strict pay to play basis?

Be grateful for what you have.

[QUOTE=Minor Altercation;8428609]
Posting under an alter, for reasons that will be apparent below.

I began hunting in early childhood then stopped in my 20s and started again during the past 10 years, during my 50s. Hunted some with the hunt I grew up with but settled upon one that in this day and time, has most of my “friends” and meets are closer AND their hunt territory is fabulous. I have loved the people, the hounds, and all.

I have known their master since he arrived in the county decades ago and I have known his wife since the 1960s when she moved into the county and married someone local. Others in this hunt are people I know well from eventing, and one of my best friends now boards my 3 horses (2 training/sales horses and one not for sale horse). Although I have been hunting with this hunt regularly only last year and this, I feel very much at home with them, knowing so many of them, and I particularly like hunting with their large number of pony club juniors who I see professionally in the eventing and dressage world.

This year, I had some major financial setbacks with my horse business. Typically, most of my income comes from horses, finding, training, selling, and taking one or two in to train/sell once in awhile. Those who know me know that while my business is small, it has been quite good to me, grossing about $100k annually. This year is the first year that I have had to delve into my other income, as a full time medical professional.

I swear the above is relevant!

I did not hunt much at all this fall because I had not paid my dues and I frankly did not have the funds available to pay the cap regularly. I also had horses that had to be competed through the month so as to prep them for sales. I thought I could pay my dues about six weeks go and emailed the secretary to expect the check on the pro rate. Within about two weeks, I incurred a huge and unexpected expense on one of my horses that I owned that threw me 10k behind. Two weeks ago, I called the master and told him that I was embarrassed to admit that I had not hunted because I couldn’t afford it. He told me then that my presence was much wanted and told me to just pay the cap until I had reached the membership dues. I told him that I would do that, thanking him profusely, and told him that I would pay in full in January if not sooner. All was well.

So I paid for two hunts, one $100 cap and one $150. I had already hunted one time before then but he had told me to just keep paying and there was no issue.

Today, I showed up for a meet and the secretary ran up to me in my trailer and (rather loudly) told me that “we have no tolerance for people who do not pay and if you do not give me a check for $500 now, then you will need to leave.” He followed this up by stating that I had hunted 5 times and paid for only two meets so I owed that amount immediately in back capping fees. I attempted to reason with him to no avail, and then turned around and drove home.

I sent him an email stating that I truly did not believe I owed that much and that I was disappointed in the public humiliation.

I then received a text message from a relative from another hunt stating, “Is it true that XXH turned you away today?? What the hell was that about???”

The word was out.

Secretary then sends me a pretty curt email stating that I owe $250 (what happened to the $500) if I wanted to hunt and that I was no longer a pro since I board my horses out (USEF, USEA, USDF do not agree with this!) and that I had capped 3 times so therefore I would need to pay the full non-pro fees in addition to back caps of $250 if I wanted to hunt again. Oh, and he added that any humiliation I might experience is self-inflicted as I had been so unappreciative of the generosity of the XXH in allowing me to hunt on an “IOU”

So… I sure hope that the master/long time family friend calls me about this and I sure hope I get some sort of apology.

Sooo… I do not see how I could go back after what transpired today. I am truly humiliated and aghast and hurt (it takes a lot for me to cry and believe me I have been crying). This also comes at the end of a hideous week at work and working for the past 15 days with no day off until yesterday and today.

Arggghhh… I guess I need to look for another hunt. I do not want to go back to my first hunt because they hunt coyote and I really prefer fox. There are many other hunts in the area… but this all feels so darned wrong…[/QUOTE]

  1. I’m glad the situation got resolved. I can’t imagine anyone at my local hunt behaving in such a manner, no matter the circumstances.
  2. Yes, it was rude. Obviously everyone thinks this is not appropriate.

I am not justifying her actions, I will take the unpopular thought of - you make 100 K from your side business, make enough in your medical job to cover any expenses, had a 10,000 loss, have 3 horses boarded out, 2 are sale horses that you show- then you come to me and cry poor. Yes, it has happened to all of us, but really? Capping fees are what set you over the limit? . If you are that strapped is hunting THAT many time needed? You can’t wait until you are caught up with other things (with your dual income).

It is none of my business, I certainly would not have treated you in that manner but I can sense the frustration of the secretary. No excuse for rude behavior, but I think that given your financial situation, you are perhaps not a member I would feel the most generous to allow a running balance or payment plan. We have extended payment plans to people without batting an eye, who are definitely not brining in 6 figures plus. However, our more affluent members would not even ask if they were in your situation. It honestly sounds a bit like you are taking advantage of the situation, someone called you out (though inappropriately) and you are the victim.

I think the person was rude but have a hard time feeling sorry for you, given the circumstances.

[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;8445801]

  1. I’m glad the situation got resolved. I can’t imagine anyone at my local hunt behaving in such a manner, no matter the circumstances.
  2. Yes, it was rude. Obviously everyone thinks this is not appropriate.

I think the person was rude but have a hard time feeling sorry for you, given the circumstances.[/QUOTE]

Here I was thinking I was the only one that seemed to get a sense of entitlement from your post. What the secretary did was rude and unprofessional. BUT… I am of the opinion if you can’t afford something then perhaps you should wait until you can.