The ads that advertise the horse will have lots of treats and be spoiled are pretty funny. The horse isn’t reading the ad.
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I also tend to look askance at these for another reason. If you only have $4,000 to spend on the horse, are you really going to pay that big vet bill when something goes wrong? It’s honestly why I have always struggled to sell horses that I know to have a low market value. In some ways, the ability to pay a five-figure price functions as a signifier of an ability to pay for the very expensive costs of horse ownership.
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As a general rule, I agree with you.
That said, I KNOW those people with the limited budget but amazing home. They do exist, and they aren’t spending all of their money on the horse so that they HAVE the money for the emergency. They are willing to wait and they are willing to do all of the maintenance. My barn is full of older horses who are schoolmasters and need a good amount of maintenance, so it’s a thing. The deal is, at least with our horses, that the owners/people who made the horse into a school master generally know my trainers and entrust their horses to them for relatively cheap because they know the horse will be well maintained and not stressed.
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Wow, that is some high-level low-balling! “Yes, we want to give you 30k less than your asking price but you should take it because we LOVE THIS HORSE SO MUCH!!!”
I absolutely agree with this, and I have been one of those people! As we all know lots of money doesn’t guarantee a good home. On the other hand, when I was out there looking for cheaps I went out with my tiny budget AND realistic expectations. I knew I’d probably end up with something very much less-than-perfect, and had an idea of what I was willing to sacrifice.
The first one I ended up with was a true project. He was a diamond in the rough that never quite lost all of the rough. Had he been less of a headcase I would not have been able to afford him! Big, built beautifully, grey, truly amazing jump…but he had been slapped around by his previous trainer and reacted very aggressively to humans, offering to bite and kick anyone in his space. I knew what I was getting into and his price reflected all of his issues. When talking with the person who bought him as a quick resale before she realized what he was, she was most interested in whether or not I could a) handle his issues on the ground and under saddle and b) provide a home that would help instead of make him worse. So, in that case the care I could provide was an important part of her decision to sell him to me, but that was because he was kind of a dangerous horse.
I came across someone else looking for resale/project horses, I think below 2k. Fine, probably not going to happen, but whatever, a project is a project…except she (another adult!) was also wanting young, sound, athletic, no spook/buck/rear, 16hh, etc. I mean…good luck?
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I might be the odd duck, but I don’t pay much for my horses but keep a large emergency fund put aside and they want for nothing. I just budget to spend x on a horse, shipping, fitted saddle, etc. without dipping into my emergency fund. If I see a horse that’s been sitting, maybe doesn’t vet well but I’m ok with the risk, I make an offer. Worst they tell me is no and it wasn’t meant to be.
Some people buying high dollar horses are doing it on a loan, refinancing their house, borrowed from 401k. How are they considered more likely to provide a good home vs me that budgets for the long haul and knows my limits?
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Nonsense. This is just insulting nonsense. I am one of “those people” & my horses get excellent care. Just…no.
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You know, I have heard this so much lately. Multiple friends under multiple trainers have told me that they’re not getting their pros’ help in the shopping process. And these are people who are seriously looking with reasonable budgets. I wonder what’s up with this. Anyone have insights?
Sure they will. I’ve never spent more than $1000 on a horse. My last project (an $800 purchase) cost me $15,000 of vet visits in one sitting - that was seven years ago and he’s had several other vet visits since. I joke with friends that he went to horse college and blew his inheritance on vet bills.
Now, I’m that cheap by choice. I could probably cobble together five figures to buy a nice horse if I wanted to, but… I don’t want to. I’d rather buy a nice project, bring it along myself, and save my five figures for the inevitable vet bills.
I’ve pretty much toed the line between the upper low class and low middle class in terms of barns and horse quality most of my equestrian career - with the exception of the years I spent working for BNTs. I’ve met a lot more people who have shoestring budgets than five figure budgets (some even at the BNT barns) – keep in mind the bulk of horse keeping is the 99%, not the 1%. You’re throwing a pretty ugly blanket over a huge group with that generalization. I’m not personally offended, but I can see how that statement would insult a lot of people on COTH.
Just one barn manager’s perspective here: the shoe-string people are typically in the trenches vis-a-vis their animal’s care. They’re boots-on-the-ground folk, who work off their board or keep their horses at home, they have a general basic understanding of horse care, work to afford their passion, and they know horses. They’re there every day taking care of their horse and notice something the second the horse is even slightly off. I would take hundreds of boarders and students like that, over the five-figure boarder who only shows up to ride her horse.
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[quote=“touchstone, post:597, topic:760586, full:true”]
[quote=“foursocks, post:568, topic:760586”]
If you only have $4,000 to spend on the horse, are you really going to pay that big vet bill when something goes wrong? [/quote]
Wow. Just, wow.
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I should add:
This $800 horse is the reason for the following purchases: two custom saddles ($11,000), four unnecessarily expensive bridles ($1000 all in, $1300 if you include bits), a trailer ($6000), a truck ($8000), a hay hut ($800), $2000 in stone dust and $1000 in fencing for his emergency medical paddock I had to make. That’s $30,100 right there, and I didn’t even count his $15,000 vet bill. 
That’s before factoring in how much I pay to feed the nag (in hay, sweat, and real estate taxes).
Horses are flipping expensive. I don’t blame people for being careful with where their money goes and shopping with a budget. The purchase of the horse is the least expensive part of horse keeping. Many people shop with that implicitly understood, and it’s reflected in their budget.
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That in 2022, people expect results NOW? I’ve only ever bought twice where I was “looking”, one when I was a junior and once when I was in my 30s. When I was a junior, I think we looked for at least a year, almost 2. When I was looking in my 30s I bought the first horse I tried, which ended up being a huge mistake. But, horse shopping takes time and patience, it’s not like shoe shopping where you just go to the shoe store and get what you need. So it seems to me, and of course not knowing those people or their situations its very hard to say, but it’s entirely possible that many of those trainers ARE looking and its just not as obvious because it takes time. Trainers don’t want to be running around showing their clients horses unless they think its a good match. After all, assuming they are getting paid commission on the purchase, they will benefit from the client finding a horse.
My guess would be that, rather than a plethora of trainers not wanting to be bothered helping their clients find horses, that there may instead be a plethora of riders who are expecting results way faster than what is reasonable. It may also be that the clients lack awareness of their abilities and expectations, or of the realities of the types of horses available out there.
I consider myself a good example of lacking awareness when I was younger. The horse I bought as a junior was very green but athletic and willing. He could take a joke and had a good work ethic. I wouldn’t call him easy, but he was safe and willing. Together we went from teaching him to jump all the way up the AO hunters, where we met with a decent amount of success. I thought “this is totally do-able, this will be my routine for the next horse”, and while that process can work, there are so many ways it could go wrong. I retired that horse to a lower level when I was 28. My next 2 horses my mom and I picked up as babies, one was always on the wimpy side and didn’t really have the scope for much above 3’/3’3. The other one was brave and scopey, but had a bad work ethic and would suddenly blow up when you least expected it. After I sold those 2, I bought a beautiful ISH who was so scopey and sweet on the ground. but he had zero confidence to be an amateur horse, if you couldn’t hold his hand, he would blow up and dump you so fast. In the process of selling that one, I bought a lovely horse to bring along. She is gorgeous and brave and forgiving. Then she bowed a tendon and recovery didn’t go well. We put her on stall rest (bad choice for her), and while slowly bringing her back in to work, she managed to bow the other one. I finally did what I should have done to start with, which was to throw her out in a field for a year. Actually, I bred her and then threw her out in a field. Now, in my 40s, I have a gelding that I think will be the one to get me back in to the 3’6 show ring. Maresy is home with my momma, being her amazing brave and beautiful self. Mom is having a blast on her. My point to all this rambling? I was delusional about my abilities and what each horse needed/could do. I never realized how lucky I was with the first one, and just took it for granted that I was able to take most moderately athletic horses and get them up to my desired level of performance. I was wrong and I misjudged. I suspect this is a common trait for many riders. But, I could also be projecting.
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I just wanted to come back and explain my comment more, because I think I have unintentionally offended a lot of my people. To be clear, this is very much my category of horse keeping too. I personally have purchased several four-figure horses, and invested what it took (in money, work, heartache) to keep them sound and happy. For many years, I did my own horse care at my own barn. There are 100% many people who are prudent about their shopping budgets, but maintain savings and realistic expectations about the things that can go wrong and what they can cost when they do.
But any time you are selling a horse to a stranger, you are taking a gamble on what kind of owner you will encounter. And is especially true on the internet, where you are less likely to know the buyer personally. I do think people’s ability to pay for the horse is often (thought of course not always!) correlated with their ability to pay for expensive emergencies. The hypothetical $4,000 schoolmaster in the post I quoted likely requires a fair amount of expensive ongoing management and maintenance too.
When I have an older horse that is stepping down and I know its market value to be low, and its carrying costs to be high, I have been reluctant to sell. I decided to retire one early. I donated another one to a highly regarded dressage program at a college. I am sure those horses would have had great lives with an owner like you. But I wanted to be sure I did right by these animals, and I was anxious that it would be difficult to find you.
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You are brave to have added that all up!
I do enjoy my monthly budgeting spreadsheet, but except for resale projects I refuse to calculate the cumulative cost of any of my horses.
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I have had the opposite experience. I have overheard the deep pocket owners begrudging the $1000 for gastroguard so they can go show their clearly uncomfortable and unhappy high 5-figure horses, but the owners in the barn that spent low-mid 4-figures on their horses have spent EVERYTHING to keep their horses comfortable and happy (Adequan, Gastroguard, Back on Track everything, Massage, PEMF, custom saddles, etc.) I have also seen the deep pocket owners force the old, marginally serviceable sound campaigner into therapy programs for the tax write off, rather than pay for the horse’s well-earned retirement. And seen the owners with far less disposable income find creative ways to fund their horse’s retirement, earned or not.
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My TB cost $2,200 and is living a great life and wants for nothing; my free horse, the same. She needed some major vet work (mostly teeth) done when I got her but the rest of her days were blissful; our other free horse is still here with us and is my husband’s trail horse and he’s living in semi-retirement and is well cared for. The price of the horse has nothing to do with the quality of care the horse receives.
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@touchstone, please don’t let these folks beat you down. Your statement was, in fact, fundamentally correct for the vast majority of people out there looking for cheap horses, especially the child safe unicorns we’ve been talking about. People are pelting you with cherry picked outliers.
And you know how it goes around here - one or two people disagree and then the wind shifts and all of a sudden, a bunch of people are dumping on you. If the wind had been blowing in a different direction, your statement might have received near universal agreement.
Come on, people. How many times right here on COTH have people said putting a low price on a horse just increases the chances it will end up in a bad place? How many times right here on COTH have people said the best thing you can do for your horse is make sure it’s well trained so if you have to sell it, you can market it to a “better class of owner” at a higher price and thus help ensure it ends up in a good home?
Make up your minds, people. As a general rule, either being able to market and sell your horse in a more upscale market helps ensure better quality of care or the price of the horse has nothing to do with the quality of care it receives. Which is it, because you can’t have both.
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This is not accurate - lots of good horses never make it to the sales sites, they get sold through word of mouth or social media. Why pay for an ad when they are going to have no trouble selling that way? Particularly true at this time of year for show horses who are selling fast at the winter circuit locations.
My experience was the same as @HJdaydream - my trainer isn’t on social media, but was happy for me to post an ISO and weed out the results and feed her the ones to follow up on that looked like they had potential. We got great leads this way, and it is how we found the horse I bought and the horse that would have been the next serious contender if the first choice didn’t vet.
On the pricing front, the lowball offer that @Arelle got is laughable/inappropriate from the buyer side – if the seller wants to offer a price cut that’s one thing, but not the buyer! And that was one thing that did surprise me on the ISO responses. I would get messages that said “I’m asking X price but I’ll take [as much as $50k less] for a quick sale”! There was a lot of flexibility in pricing, and for that reason I would use vague budget ranges (and certainly was never giving anyone a number before they gave me a price!) because the seller’s response told you a lot. If they were cagey about the price, I moved on.
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I cherry-picked nothing. That poster suggested people with low budgets can’t afford or don’t want to provide good vet care.
I didn’t take offense to the “low budget = low quality care” insinuation, but I sure could be insulted (if I cared enough) by the implication that my perspective on the matter is mercurial and subject to the whims of other posters.
I see just as many five figure homes not able to provide good vet care or even worse, unable to identify things that need veterinary attention – like a lame horse, EORTH, DSLD/ESPA, neurologic issues, subclinical laminitis, bad farriery… Who knows why? Is it because they’re riders not horsemen? Is it because they’ve always paid for other people to take care of their horse or they have no basic understanding of horse care? Is it something else?
I haven’t witnessed a positive correlation between more money and better horsemanship/veterinary care. I could even go so far to point out that how much a horse was purchased for has nothing to do with its boarding environment – there are six figure horses stalled next to $800 ones. Their care boils down to the barn owner/manager/staff - and that is all over the place. Higher board has zero correlation with better care - we see this all the time in every thread about a big show barn forgetting to water the horses or leaving heavyweights on in 50F weather.
Like all things with humans, it is all over the map and boils down to individual circumstances.
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My trainer friends picked up two separate jumper warmbloods a while back. Both had been bought in their last homes for $50,000 plus (ten years ago, high dollar) and fried through mismanagement mentally and physically. One had been sitting in a field with cracked hooves for a year. The two separate owners each signed them over for $1 seeing them as throwaway horses they could afford to replace. They now lead low key lives in a small lesson program.
The high purchase price did not translate to more real care. Indeed the fact that these horses were meant to perform and disappointed made them something to unload as worthless.
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