You know the horse market is crazy when

[Scribbler]

@OverandOnward

Exactly! I’m currently messing around with a lovely mare that’s at least ten, and hasn’t been properly broke yet, still trying to figure out her panic under saddle. It’s definitely a “project” and an experiment.

There are many of us down here at the lower end of nice horses that have an eye for a good horse, but not necessarily any strong competition goals, or the budget for that kind of horse.

I call them “fallen through the cracks horses.” Not rescues, not neglected in overall care, just sidelined most often due to the owner’s situation. You don’t know what they know, or don’t know, until you start working with them.

[Blugal]

You know it’s crazy when… you go to see a green grade 15hh horse for sale for $10k, arrive and see its feet have not been done in at least 6 months, it cow kicks you when you touch the girth area, and it is 3/5 lame when it takes the first trot steps under saddle. The owner claims she’s had it “a couple months” (why has it never seen a rasp?) and that it’s not lame, it just “looks funny if you don’t get it in front of your leg.” Then proceeds to take the horse on a trail ride.

[IPEsq]

@BigMama1

@IPEsq

I actually tried one not young dressage horse that would have made a great eq horse. He had been doing 4th level so had changes. Probably would not have gone much higher and owner was switching to a different breed focus. So they had some jumping and eventing people out to evaluate some of their WBs. Owner did have a hard time swallowing the “prospect” price tag she would need to put on the horse for hunter/eq after the investment to get him to 4th level. And that was before the market was nuts. Probably now the same type of horse would be listed at twice what he was at that time.

If she’d have to drop the price substantially as a hunter prospect, it seems odd she wouldn’t simply sell him as a mid-level dressage schoolmaster. Everybody on the planet seems to be looking for an AA-friendly Third / Fourth Level horse and , around here at least, they are willing to pay good money for one.

I don’t know who eventually bought him. He was a nice horse but not what I was looking for personally. I was trying him out for someone looking for a 3’+ eq horse on a budget, for which I thought he was very suitable. As I said, the market was not as hot at that time.

I guess my point is, sometimes I see a dressage horse looking for a jumping career, and sometimes they have enough of the right things to change careers and be successful. Or do both simultaneously, up to a certain level. Others may have flaws that won’t work that well in other jobs either.

[BigMama1]

I think jumpers and dressage horses have enough of the same basic requirements - especially the push from behind and the uphill carriage - that it’s not crazy to retrain one for the other discipline. Not so much with hunter to dressage.

[Mander]

@OverandOnward

And not for nothing, in the U.S. many rural owners have plenty of room for a horse that is just consuming pasture while the owner makes unrealistic plans. It is common for rural owners to buy a younger prospect only to find that they don’t really have time for it. Every January 1st the owner makes a resolution that this year they will train that horse. Eventually they realize that the horse is steadily collecting years of age, and they don’t really want to do the work, or just never will be able to give it the time needed.

I know so many people who did exactly this. I was house/horse sitting for a friend a few years ago, and at the time she had an 12yo, unbroken, AQHA registered mare. It’s been 4 years or so, and I can guarantee she’s got a 16yo, unbroken, AQHA mare now lol.

[Blugal]

@Mander

house/horse sitting for a friend a few years ago, and at the time she had an 12yo, unbroken, AQHA registered mare. It’s been 4 years or so, and I can guarantee she’s got a 16yo, unbroken, AQHA mare now lol.

There is a funny book that, amongst other things, has this as a storyline. It’s called Breaking Smith’s Quarter Horse. I recommend it.

[Moneypitt]

Looks like the pony market is way up too!

Some sellers are asking $20,000-$30,000 for average looking small quarter horsey types, average moving, average jumping, green broke youngsters? (green broke as in no flying lead changes) No measurement cards either? Good for kids?

Can’t begin to imagine what the cost of a legit USEF division pony ‘prospect’ youngster might be? Probably a good time to be a hunter pony breeder.

[hillary_again]

I had no idea that unbroke horses in backyards was a thing. I bought one - I bought her from the seller who got her this exact way. Unbroke pushing on 10 years old. I thought it was a unique story. Apparently not so much! Shaking my head. I’m grateful to have my horse, but she does act a lot more like a 2 year old than she does her real age.

[OverandOnward]

@hillary_again

I had no idea that unbroke horses in backyards was a thing.

Oh god yes.

My part of the U.S. is overrun with them. Any craigslist or FB ad trying to sell someone’s back-lot horse is very probably going to be some degree of (a) aging and (b) green-broke and confused under saddle. And that’s most of the craigslist/FB/internet horse ads that are listed in the more random internet marketplaces.

It seems that if they are ever sold (and don’t just finish out their life living feral wherever they landed that one time), they end up in the same situation all over again. New owner/family doesn’t realize how green this horse is. After a few weeks/months they decide that the horse has an attitude problem. Then no one wants to mess with it. Horse just keeps eating hay and sheltering in a rundown one-wall lean to in a small dry lot, for years, maybe the rest of its life. Unless they decide to list it for sale again … and on to another turn around the same mulberry bush.

The skill to ride most horses that will carry a saddle, and to bring along a horse with deficient training - two things that used to be abundant in this area - just don’t seem to exist much any more.

Some of the owners of these aging green-broke horses are first-time horse people with zero background with horses.

Some unknown number of these never-really-trained horses do end up on the kill-truck when an owner who is either frustrated, or cash-strapped, finally sells, knowing nothing about what kind of people are likely to buy full-bellied but green 10+ horses.

@hillary_again

I bought one - I bought her from the seller who got her this exact way. Unbroke pushing on 10 years old. I thought it was a unique story. Apparently not so much! Shaking my head. I’m grateful to have my horse, but she does act a lot more like a 2 year old than she does her real age.

Your horse did well to land with you!

[Scribbler]

Often newbies don’t ride well enough to know they are sitting on a green, confused horse. They can’t steer or stop any horse, and all horses scare them.

[mvp]

You know the horse market is crazy when some auction company that says it specializes in “fancy-broke Western horses” is going to have a sale of horses imported to Aiken, SC in the beginning of October. You know these are some combination of “meh” ranch horses or camp horses that no one wants to feed through the winter. This auction company also says that is specializes in walking first time buyers through the process of purchasing their first horse.

Caveat emptor, for the love of God, caveat emptor.

ETA (because I’m not over it yet): A horse auction company that specializes in “helping” first time buyers? How can all of those concepts be put into the same sentence without it exploding?

[Scribbler]

A couple of years ago there was a trainer based on the East Coast on here wondering if they could find a niche sourcing quality ranch horses from their old hometown in cattle country and making them into kids’ hunters. Opinion differed as to the profitability. I don’t know if they ever followed through.

This would be the year to have been doing that.

[McGurk]

There was a thread like that fairly recently, too.

I don’t know if they every followed through, either.

[vxf111]

Very recently. I think the person decided against it?

[Mersidoats]

I bought an unbroke 13 y/o warmblood mare last year. She is broke now, lol. I called her my 13-going-on-3-year-old. It is a different sort of job working with the older unbroke horse. I got her for a song. I wonder how much she would be this year (probably out of my price range). I wonder how much I could get for her now.

During her vetting, the vet mentioned that he saw a lot of these type of horses: athletic, well-bred individuals that hadn’t been started, and how with the right start they could be attractive resale prospects. Granted, I’m in a horse-rich area.

This year I gave up on finding anything sound in my price range in this country. I’m importing. The quality is higher for my budget, even with the import.

[TatteredDaydreamer]

Totally hear everyone regarding the lack of pros willing to start baby horses, it’s really sad. I fortunately have a fabulous one in our area and that’s why I’ve started buying baby horses. Everything else is well out of my budget and I don’t necessarily trust buying something started from a lot of people either. This trainer really takes her time and there are no holes and there’s a lot to be said for that!

@dags I know the opportunity that you are referring to as well and man, I wish I had the experience she was looking for. What an amazing place and opportunity for a young pro. I’m shocked that she hasn’t found anyone interested.

[TheDBYC]

@OverandOnward

Oh god yes.

My part of the U.S. is overrun with them. Any craigslist or FB ad trying to sell someone’s back-lot horse is very probably going to be some degree of (a) aging and (b) green-broke and confused under saddle. And that’s most of the craigslist/FB/internet horse ads that are listed in the more random internet marketplaces.

Yup. Even sadder are the desperate pleas for help on social media by a friend or family member of such horse owners after the owner unexpectedly passes away. The number of people that are able to work with a 14yo horse that’s not even halter broke & has been treated like a beef Angus its whole life is close to non-existant. Within that tiny group, the number of people willing to pay for the privilege of taking on 5 such horses is even smaller. And I’m talking horses that are grade, backyard breeding experiments with serious conformational flaws. No intrinsic value as breeding stock & highly unlikely to stay sound in any regular work. Which is probably why they ended up as semi-feral teenaged yard ornaments in the first place.

I’ve also known a number of people who, frankly, know better & should do better. Nice, high $ horses that they ran into some training challenge with 12 years ago & just chucked into a field instead of setting their egos aside & seeking help. Those are the people that really piss me off. Because while the first group with backyard horses are just ignorant, these people are not. It’s sheer laziness & an unwillingness to admit that they don’t know all the answers.

While I seem to be in the minority on this, my eyes roll hard when I see a 15yo “prospect” advertised. In this area, anyway, these are usually horses that were let down by humans big time. The ones with a training challenge early in life where the human gave up instead of doing the work to fix it. Even a 15yo career-switcher “prospects” strike me as sort of odd. Using previous posters’ example of a 4th level dressage horse as a Jumper prospect, I see these issues: 1) A 15yo 4th level dressage horse is going to have many of the same soft tissue wear & tear as a jumper the same age. I can’t afford a string of horses & any jumper prospect I buy has to have the physical potential to make it to at least mid-level. 2) A lot of good dressage horses I know have no clue that they CAN jump & need a lot of skilled help figuring out how to do it. Chances are they won’t become confidence building school masters for the 2’ division for an out of shape 50yo newbie. At least not within the window of opportunity where their body can handle jumping & stay sound. They’re of little interest to more advanced riders for the same reason. Too short a window of opportunity for moving up the levels.

[beowulf]

@Mersidoats

This year I gave up on finding anything sound in my price range in this country. I’m importing. The quality is higher for my budget, even with the import.

Even with import/quarantine? Wowza. Market must be really hot right now in the US. I do have friends in my circle that have said the same thing - that it’s easier and cheaper to just go through importing.

Let me saddle up my High-Horse Soapbox Alpaca for a moment – this is a total tangent and I apologize. I’m amazed that people get sparkly-eyed over the common-moving import with not much of a record who is hardly sound but going for $20k. Meanwhile I see a TB or WBx with a performance record barely scratching a 10k sale price after being on the market for months. It’s like having “import” or “IRE” next to the name is an automatic +$10k on their price tag in the US. Half the time the horse (especially if it is a “Irish TB”) is literally USA bred but born in IRE (meaning the same quality/same bloodlines you get here, in the US)… It’s one of those horse-specific things that sometimes has me roll my eyes. That and half of these imports I see are not sound. How do you import a horse who isn’t sound?

There is a dearth of genuinely sound horses everywhere. It makes shopping frustrating. I went through something similar a few years back, wanted to find a nice, broke horse for my re-rider sister. Had a healthy budget, saw tons of horses… ended up picking up a fresh OTTB with zero retraining because it was the only sound horse out of the thirty odd horses we looked at - at a fraction of the price ($800).

I know it’s much easier to shop around across the pond with everything being local.

[vxf111]

I don’t know where you are but (I thought you were kind of near me but now I’m second guessing that?) around here you cannot buy a made hunter/jumper for $10K, even an OTTB, unless there is something MAJORLY WRONG WITH IT. Made horses are starting at low 5s even if they’re older or unfancy. People are importing because the volume of sale horses is really low here. Even if you have money to spend, the problem is finding something to spend it on! It’s crazy right now.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Yes! I’m seeing what you are @vxf111 - though I am further south than you.

I am just beginning to search for another horse, after selling a warmblood mare to an all dressage home, involving an ammy owner who would keep the horse in a program. The mare I sold was a very very good mover, sound, with several years of good professional training. She had a spook though, and wasn’t growing out of it. Not fun to hack. Not easy to keep at my personal farm. Requires a LOT of sedation for any clipping, and has required light sedation for shoeing in the past as well. She just wasn’t developing into a horse I wanted to go out and do lower level eventing on… except for the dressage phase (which she easily won every time our)

All quirks were disclosed to the potential buyer, and I sold her through a great agent. Horse sold for above asking price to the first person who looked at her. In under 2 weeks. The buyer was thrilled… they and their trainer have been shopping for a YEAR for a dressage horse.

Anyway… now I am beginning to look for me. I’d like a nice TB mare, suitable for an adult ammy who will be trailering out for lessons and schooling twice a week. I don’t need fancy… I do need SANE, and SOUND. And it needs to be fun to hack out on. I don’t even need prelim potential. But potential to go training would be nice.

Let me tell you… I don’t see anything on the market meeting my wish list for $10,000 in my area. Nor if I go up to $20,000. What I do see are a LOT of TBs either right off the track, or which have been sitting with no riding for a year plus, after coming off the track. And people are trying to sell them all as ‘upper level prospects’ … and some of it is absolutely eye rolling. I also see a LOT of horses on the market with soundness issues. It’s a good thing that people seem to be disclosing some of these issues in ads… but WOW. Some interesting asking prices being attempted for horses with identified soundness concerns.

Anyway… maybe it’s just the east coast right now… but honestly… the market is crazy and buyers need to be super careful to avoid the unsound, and not quite sane horses that are definitely a big portion of what is on the market right now…