Aaaaarrrrgggghhhhhh.
We finally got a second video from the people in Canada. Of the horse trotting. No walk, no conformation, no canter. And the trot video was 15 seconds long and at a distance.
Almost sadly, I loved the trot — very uphill and with suspension. I have asked for a video, specifically enumerating what I want to see. If I don’t get it, I am not flying up to Canada, I will just move on.
I am thinking that they do not want to sell this horse.
I still recommend to make the trip to Germany and look at the eventer collection. The advantage is that you will see a lot of horses in one location, different types, but all chosen for their eventer qualities. Even if you don’t like any of them, you will be an expert what to look for afterwards. Yes you have to factor the trip on top of the price, but if you fly to Canada, you might as well fly to Germany. And I don’t think there are too many places where you can see a whole collection of eventers.
Thats just my thoughts to the topic and I have no idea about eventing.
The canter/gallop is essential, that long,easy, efficient, ground covering stride. And usually if they have a good walk, they should have that gallop.
I have three youngsters right now, and they all have that gallop.
When I turn them out in the morning, they just pick up that canter, and gallop around the pasture, balanced and fast.
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8815526]
Aaaaarrrrgggghhhhhh.
We finally got a second video from the people in Canada. Of the horse trotting. No walk, no conformation, no canter. And the trot video was 15 seconds long and at a distance.
Almost sadly, I loved the trot — very uphill and with suspension. I have asked for a video, specifically enumerating what I want to see. If I don’t get it, I am not flying up to Canada, I will just move on.
I am thinking that they do not want to sell this horse.[/QUOTE]
From the other side of the coin, there are flaky buyers as well as flaky sellers. We all decide what we can put up with, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t.
[QUOTE=Blugal;8815189]
" if I had to pick one thing that I had to hang my hat on, I would want the horse that I was going to buy to have a face that I would enjoy seeing poked over the stall webbing every morning, waiting for breakfast."
Can be found on page 20, Training the Three-Day Event Horse and Rider, James C. Wofford."[/QUOTE]
This prompts me to post one of my most important criteria: must have cute ears. After all, it’s what we see when we ride!:lol:
There are several requirements.
Correctness. Crooked legs, poor feet, bad angles, walk away. I can forgive some things but not basic correctness.
Hind leg action. I walk way from any horse that is short stride or lazy behind. That is where the jump comes from. Being a bit choppy at the trot can be fixed. I like a good shoulder but I will forgive this before I will forgive a weak hind end. I do not tolerate the latter.
Brain. A horse does not have to be quiet. But I do not tolerate one that is mean in any way, as in kicking out, swishing tail, etc. I recently walked away from a very handsome horse that tried to kick my vet during the PPE. Ended that right then and there.
Soundness. I can forgive a slightly off flexion but if the rads are not good, I never ever buy. I forgive some minor imperfections and this is where my vet’s advice comes in. I also walk away from a horse that is particularly back sore (I get rads on the back/neck if I am paying over $5k or so). I typically palpate the back and if there is spine-related soreness, I do not go any further, unless I have already fallen in love with the horse. In that case, I x-ray.
Strong preferences.
I look close at the canter and gallop but a huge gallop is not a requirement. But I aim toward horses that are not necessarily 4* potential prospects. Most of mine are more suited for 2*. I forgive gaits. I have also found some very crappy movers who could jump the moon, and some awesome movers that were stupid over fences.
Big sweeping walk. Trot with suspension.
Nice eye. I do not buy into the belief that big doe eyes are kind eyes. It is not the eye itself, it is the expression and where the eye goes.
Uphill, with a neck in front of me. This eliminates about 50% of all thoroughbreds.
Presence. This is difficult to explain but I typically like a horse immediately, if I am going to like them later. It is the overall picture, how it all ties together, and the feel I get from looking at and touching the horse. This is so difficult to explain, but those who look at, evaluate, and buy horses will definitely know what I am talking about here. I have looked at 10+ horses in a row that I knew I would not buy after only a few minutes of looking at and touching them. And I typically tell the seller before proceeding, out of courtesy to them and out of my desire to not waste time/energy.
Big plus
Curious, a bit spooky but not balky. I like horses that are a bit looky, who see something strange and perk up and need a good look-see. I do not like one that tries to run away from scary objects. Looky horses are careful horses, and careful horses are good jumpers. I also have had horses that had no fear of anything and they were okay jumping but not very crisp.
I adore thoroughbreds and have a prospect that I adore. That being said, I would also look at pedigree and at horses purpose bred for eventing. Thoroughbreds are terrific but for every great one, there are 30 that are not. You have to sift through a lot to find a good one. We have a lot of OTTB’s at the top of our sport. If you look at the pool of purpose-bred versus the pool of OTTBs, you will see that there are WAY MORE in the latter than in the former.
Be careful of sellers who are overly confident and boastful. No one can state that a horse is going to be a top event horse before it all happens. They may play with probabilities; but certainty is suspect.
There is so so much more. What fun to be shopping for a good prospect. I hate shopping for stuff but I LOVE shopping for horses.
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8814764]
What would you all expect to see in a beginner novice horse which would make you think “ah-HA! this horse has talent!”?[/QUOTE]
Here is my 5 YO doing a BN round with my trainer. He still over-jumps a bit, and he wasn’t too brave at the stone wall :).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTPyU-ECaGg
Here is a brief XC clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EI0WDdTIyE
He actually has a pretty good gallop, although his action overall is a bit “up”. When he is not tense, dressage judges love him, but he hasn’t quite accepted the fact that the judges aren’t going to eat him.
I think he has a ways to go before his upper level potential can be evaluated. But he has a great tail!
With the new courses while gallop and jump are essential, they are not the courses of yesteryear. I like blood, but adjustability and the ability to rate so that the turns and drops and skinnies that come up so quickly are taken quickly and the horse can be on its way. A quickness of mind. Bravery.
I’d say Michael Jung’s horses are a good target.
Then there is soundness, without which we can all go home.
Great suggestions, many totally impractical to evaluate off a video …
Request video of the horse walking on even, hard surface from all 4 angles, towards and away from the camera in walk and trot. Horses with certain conformational flaws will not even move into my “maybe” bucket. Gross deviations foundation-wise are a no go, just as much as horses with no saddle position, bad angles through their hip/hind leg and pasterns that are too long or short. They can have the cutest ears in the world 
Free jumping is ok, but grossly overrated often, and I have seen so many awesome free jumpers that sucked under saddle and vice versa that I don’t put too much emphasis on this anymore - I wrote a piece for the USEA a while ago regarding this topic, not only on free jumping, feel free to check it out: http://useventing.com/news/evaluating-jumping-talent-young-horses.
The one thing you can learn from your video is how the horse uses its body. The folks I have been sourcing for all ended up with the horses that really moved through their bodies, no matter is on the flat or over jumps. That also helps working on the not-to-amazing gaits for good dressage scores.
A lot of the criteria for finding upper level horses are completely subjective and based on personal taste. It will probably get you far to start with something that is actually more objective (correctness, way of moving) and work down the list from there.
Lesch’s auction in Germany - very interesting place. Just be aware that very few horses in his collection have substantial % of blood. Yet … he must be doing something right because the horses regularly end up at the big events. So there
And btw, it is only run once a year, in November, but he has sales days throughout the spring season.
A great walk…a truly confident overtracking sexy swagger of a walk…and an eye with the look of eagles…it does exists.
While you can buy all the pedigree, conformation, gait and jump in the world and have a good brain and attitude…When the day actually comes the horse has to “want to” do the job…And that’s going to be hard to tell until all the questions are all asked.
I have been loose jump schooling my sale horses long before most people around here were doing it…My jumper clients were always requesting a proper sequence of photo s, lift off, over the fence and landing…the hip flip was much desired…but to much was discouraged for all the above stated reasons…
I personally look for a nimble footed horse who has the instinctive invisible 5th leg…or save your a** instinct. Plus a gallope away from the fence, not land in a heap but reach out and grab the landing ready to move on…which is not the same as scooting away.
Starting with an uphill horse who flows thru the gaits like a well oiled machine and effortlessly jumps on good feet is the best start you can hope for.
The few I had the gut feeling would move onto UL s so far haven t let me down. But at the end of the day it will come down to the partnership you formed along the way and an actual desire on the horses part to want to participate. So many non conforming horses horses have gone to the top because they wanted to do it with their rider…
[QUOTE=judybigredpony;8816015]
But at the end of the day it will come down to the partnership you formed along the way and an actual desire on the horses part to want to participate. So many non conforming horses horses have gone to the top because they wanted to do it with their rider…[/QUOTE]
This! With the add on that “non conforming” can’t be a compromise on soundness down the road. I doubt any of us would seriously consider a horse with a text book club foot as a prospect. If it had run on it for 8 yrs and never had an issue, so be it. But when you shop young, you want to elimiate the obvious traps in terms of soundness. There are just too many great horses out there to live with that.
I think it depends on the person. We all have things we like and dislike. I can typically tell if a young horse has the athletic ability that I’m looking for…but the mental takes longer. And a lot of the mental is pairing them with the correct rider.
This is a short video of a 3 year old filly (she is 16h) (my own homebred). It was only her 2nd time on a lunge line (and I’ve not worked her again since). Only did it to see what she looked like jumping to help me put a price on her. This was her very first time jumping. I liked her instincts. She showed me very good form for a green horse. Her dam is half sister to 2 4* eventers and her sire has a few running ULs although he is more of a dressage. (Yes, her price went up a bit and firmed up for me after seeing her jump–but really more from having worked with her and felt how trainable, smart and willing. THOSE are traits that I value. Note I didn’t say calm and quiet…I like a bit of spark and opinion.)
My thoughts on her is nothing physically will stop her from being an event horse. She is smart and easy to train. She has 3 lovely gaits and what looks to be a nice enough jump. We will start her under saddle later this fall.
While I think she will make a nice event prospect…she is fancy enough that she will more likely end up selling as a show hunter prospect as that world is more willing to spend more. But we will start her the same. They need to be a bit further along before you can really tell if they will be more UL. But this filly showed me what I like to see in her first attempts at jumping. Willingless to try, learning as she went along, and decent form both up front but especially behind. If they jump like this…and are in my price range…I buy as I would be able to resell.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wu-TVr8pyk
She was bred by me to be nice all rounder more that an UL prospect but she turned out quite well and when less fat, will look more eventer
ETA: Here was the blog I wrote about my horse Prince/aka Muggle as a young 4 year old. Yesterday, Jimmy and I were chatting about his up coming run at Bughley. I was mildly freaking out about the size of the fences…Jimmy’s comment was they might finally get his attention a bit But between a young prospect and an UL horse…the biggest issue is keeping them sound and the right training. I honestly don’t think it is that hard to find a prospect with the athletic ability…but PRODUCING one up the level is a different story. And that is where the skill of the right trainer and rider come into play. http://useventing.com/news/prince-meets-king-or-muggle-meets-jimmy
bornfreenowexpensive, that is a very nice young lady. Best of luck with her!!
David O’Connor spoke at the Young Event Horse Open Forum a couple years at the USEA convention about the importance of the gallop in an event horse. He used video of three different 4 star horses to compare and contrasts styles of gallop and to talk about what is good and what’s not so good.
Here’s what the USEA site says about the discussion in its wrap-up:
“He also discussed, in addition to video clips, the importance of the gallop in a four-star horse. Dissecting clips from Rolex Kentucky of Sinead Halpin’s Manoir de Carneville, Lynn Symansky’s Donner, and Andrew Nicholson’s ride on Quimbo, David discussed the stamina of the horses and how the gallop, even near the end of the course, needs to be a pushing gallop off of the hind legs, rather than a pulling gallop with the front legs. The horses that have up-and-down gallops may be great in the show jumping, but due to the inefficiency of that kind of gallop, may not be able to sustain speed over an 11-minute course. Pulling on the front legs also makes those horses more prone to injury.”
I learned a lot about 4* event horse gallops at WEG in Lexington, where I got to watch each horse go in a long galloping stretch in the middle of the course. The horses with good gallops still looked fresh; others (I particularly remember Ballynoe Castle RM) were already laboring.
A little tongue in cheek, but buy one that Michael Jung would approve of. (And I understand that he does not go for the high-priced prospects, either.) :yes:
At that age I’d be buying proven bloodlines. Probably Irish horses. And they tend to look like plowhorses or an unusual breed of mule at 3 so honestly I’m not sure how useful a video is. If you have the budget look for a proven stallion with horses on the ground you know or can go look at like Jumbo or A Fine Romance rather than maybe a German horse. Educate yourself how their more successful kids go and mature. Ask to see the mare, old video of her under saddle if possible,definitely a confo video. As to see photos or videos of any siblings or half siblings andtheir records. All thta plus a solid vet check and you’ll be way ahead of anyone guessing about a horse from a video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwtDd6YkCIQ
http://www.horsetelex.de/horses/pedigree/596831
Thats the horse my nephew got from the eventer auction
As a nervous adult ammy I would put “go forward alone” and “brakes” as the two most important things.
Most people online think their horse has upper level potential but have no idea what that actually means (or the horse is very hot, over jumps and dumps people so he must be upper level), and most buyers probably need something that can pack them around Novice.
A herd bound horse makes a terrible eventer, as does one that suffers from a lack of go button. Just as much as a lack of whoa button.
My new mare did not do water AT ALL when I bought her. It was a serious concern as I was told she didn’t do water when I got her and I had two horses who never learned to do water. The first thing I did was take her trail riding where we hit 15 water crossings and one 1/4 mile stretch down a creek in 8 miles. She went from hysterically rearing, spinning, and launching over the water after her trail buddy to plodding through crossings in the lead by the end of the day and hasn’t been a problem since.
However, her lack of properly go forward button has been a beast to fix.
On another note I asked for a video of my mare and got a video of her eating grain in her stall. Beat that.
I think I can beat that - a friend was selling her horse (who was a Novice packer) and the buyers had asked a lot of questions. It seemed like the perfect horse. They asked his birthdate, and since he was a JC TB, she had the date from his papers. They got back to her and told her their numerologist didn’t like his numbers, so they had to pass.
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