Young horse is naughty coming in from turnout.

[Zippy]

Hi eventer friends,

So I’ve had my guy for a little over half a year. He’s an Irish Sport Horse, just turned 8, 15.2, doesn’t have a lot of experience beyond foxhunting. He can be a bit pushy on the ground, but he learns quickly and is mostly a good egg. Lately, with the weather getting colder and getting dark early, he is becoming a problem on some nights being brought in from turnout to stall. Last week he broke a couple of fingers on the person who was turning in that night (he’s at a co-op–we all take turns). I’ve also heard that he has reared on people. He has never done any of this to me, and I have brought him in at the end of the day myself. I always lead him with a chain wrapped around the noseband of his halter–not because he has reared but generally because he also likes his grass and I won’t put up with being dragged there. This has worked just fine for me. I suspect the person he reared on does not wrap the chain around the leather of the halter, as I was taught. I have no idea if this would make him worse when he’s already being naughty, and I don’t want to annoy anybody at the barn, and I sure don’t want anyone to get hurt. Any thoughts on how I can get him to behave on the way back to the barn? Any training ideas? Thanks in advance for the advice…

[enjoytheride]

You need to spend more time with him improving his ground manners before you let other people handle him again, and I would only let him be handled by people who know how to apply a chain and use it, as well as carry a crop or dressage whip.

[Zippy]

How would I use a crop/dressage whip for this?

[enjoytheride]

I use it when the horse rears or tries to knock me down and I use it like I mean it. I typically aim for the chest but if the horse is rearing above me I’m not too worried about what I hit. I would not just hand it to someone who I thought was inexperienced handling naughty horses. Behavior like you are describing is very dangerous to the handler and needs to be stopped now.

The fact that he is already lead with a chain and still acts up is what makes me want to carry a crop.

Especially in a co op you need to spend a lot of time with him on his general ground manners and turning him in yourself at night, leading him back and forth and up and down the aisle and working on his behavior. If you need to spend 30 minutes backing him all the way to his field until he can come in on all four feet then I would do so.

Again, he needs to be handled by someone experienced before he hurts someone and you lose your barn.

[Ibex]

I’ve gone through this with my mare… getting on top of the day to day pushiness and setting boundaries with ground work as part of day to day schooling went a long way to being able to make corrections when she tried to get out of hand at turn-in.

I’d recommend one of these, attached to either a chain on a leather halter or a rope halter:
https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/blocker-lead-rope-6003

It’s long enough to get out of the way if there’s a problem without letting go, without the length of a lunge line. And the “popper” doubles as a crop.

We did a ton of “if you run me over you’re backing up”, and the end came in useful. She was also good at planting because she’d get distracted, and then have a goofy spooky fit. I could use the end swung around my outside and smacking her in the butt to instill “ignore it and go forward”.

She’s ten now and easy on the ground… most days…

[Zippy]

Any specific advice would be great. I AM working with a trainer, and I will ask her, but I need to do something myself. Maybe I will bring him in myself every night for a while.

[Beam_Me_Up]

Feel your pain.
I use the crop when the horse doesn’t listen to my body language. I stop, he should stop, if he doesn’t and tries to drag forward, I whack him on the chest.
Personally, I don’t always wrap a chain, but I think what you’re getting at is that your coop mates aren’t experienced enough to properly use a chain, in which case you probably do need to work harder to address this yourself and not expect them to.
FWIW I notice a huge difference in manners when the horses don’t already feed in the stall when they come in (not sure if you have control over this).

[Zippy]

Thanks, folks. I’ve been lurking here for years and you people are the best. This is the youngest horse I’ve ever dealt with and the first after my mare of 18 years (who died last January). I love this guy, but he can be a challenge.

[enjoytheride]

I would turn him in yourself every night for awhile and do ground work on him every night as well.

He needs to walk into the barn on a loose lead rope. If not, make him back up to his field. Stand there. Then go toward the barn again. Repeat. You may spend a very long time doing this the first time. You need to be serious, act swiftly, reward well, and have good timing.

He will eventually figure out that he gets his dinner faster if he keeps all of his legs on the ground.

[Zippy]

BTW–we don’t have feed in the stall when they come in (although they do have hay there), and I stopped leaving treats in his feed bucket three or four days ago figuring that might be part of the issue. He may be still figuring that one out. He is VERY food-oriented, which is probably part of the problem. Thanks. I’ll look into that lead rope.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=Zippy;8421023]
Any specific advice would be great. I AM working with a trainer, and I will ask her, but I need to do something myself. Maybe I will bring him in myself every night for a while.[/QUOTE]

Bring him in yourself is the best solution. I also have had good luck using a rope halter rather than stud chain…they seem less inclined to rear with a rope halter…but it needs to be put on correctly.

But the real issue is people are probably just not paying enough attention when bringing him in and he is therefore taking advantage of the situation.

[IFG]

You are in a tough situation. What makes no sense to me is how he could have broken someone’s fingers. I can only see that happening if they had the shank wrapped around their hand, which is a big no no. When my horse was young and fresh I only led him with a chain over his nose and always by himself.

I have not used a rope halter, but might try that.

To be honest, when my horse was young and very fresh, a whip would have made him more dangerous. What work for him was a sharp yank on the chain. Having a long enough shank to get out of his way is also very important.

[Hilary]

he’s young and smart and cheeky and learned he can get away with not behaving for certain people.

Did he come from Ireland? Or just the breed? if he came from Ireland I suspect he has found the Americans to be a bunch of pushovers and being the smart cheeky thing, he’s just not respecting people. My experience foxhunting a few times over there showed me that while they care very much for their horses they put up with ZERO bull*hit.

It seems harsher than what many do here, but it wasn’t ever cruel, or out of anger it was just very clear that you, horse, are not in charge.

He doesn’t act up for you because he has the chain on his nose and knows you won’t tolerate it. But it is not fully installed that he is good for everyone.

[fordtraktor]

I do not think a co op barn is good for a young cheeky horse that is saucy enough to rear and harm someone/one of them. Either bring him in yourself only, have them leave him out/dont handle him, or move him to a barn where he will be handled by pros. Before someone gets seriously hurt. You can’t make them more experienced, you need to remove your horse from their care. And this is not to speak poorly of them, a difficult horse is really not their fault and is outside the skill set of many amateur handlers. Not what most co ops are meant for.

[GraceLikeRain]

Another thought would be to come out every night for a few weeks and supervise the co-op person that day while they bring him in. Your presence will give the person confidence and it may shed light on his behavior. Once you see what he is doing you will have more knowledge about what needs to be addressed.

As someone who worked at a co op it was incredibly stressful handling a horse who was scary to bring in. I had more than one where it wasn’t unusual for them to pop their front end, spin, strike, etc. and the owners always said they never had a problem. I always wished the owners would come out and see what everyone else had to deal with on a daily basis.

Personally, I’d offer to pay the medical bills of whoever broke her fingers. Not only is that incredibly painful but that impacts her ability to work shifts, ride her horse, do life tasks, etc. I understand accidents happen but this one was a direct result of your horse’s behavior.

edited to add: I would also offer to cover all of her shifts until her hand is healed.

[Gumby80]

Suggest a rope halter and a long leadrope (like the one Ibex linked to). Teach him to lead behind you, and absolutely not to come into your space. I just use the end of the (nice, long) rope to defend my space, easier than carrying a crop.

I just walk along in front of horse, with about three feet of rope out. Stop. Swing spare end of the rope around me to clear about 3 feet of space. If horse keeps walking once I have stopped moving, he encounters the swinging rope. If he stops when I stop, the rope doesn’t connect.

Once he has that down, I’ll walk along with horse behind me, stop and start walking backwards. As before, I swing the rope around me to clear my space. They quickly learn to always give you your space, stay behind you, and pay close attention to you as they’re being led. I find it works better than trying to yank on their heads once they’re already airborne and mucking about. And it’s much safer than leading from their shoulder. If you lead them that way, all they have to do is just pop their shoulder in to you and you have no control at all.

I did this with my OTTB, who was a bit of a holy terror to lead, and it worked a treat. He now leads quietly and respectfully, even at feed time. It’s easy to train them to do this, and certainly worth a shot if people are breaking fingers!

[Boo]

Agree more training and i’d also swap to a rope halter and long lead but thats my preference.

What you need to be aware of is that he may always be difficult for some people as he has there number already. Doing more training will obviously fix a lot of it but not always.

My last gelding was at a big barn for awhile. I drilled that horse as he was extremely bossy on the ground. The BM were aware and happy with the extra groundwork etc that horse got. But i knew exactly which staff member was working which day but how he behaved the first 5 minutes i started handling him. He never resorted to being dangerous thankfully but would start taking the piss a bit (looking away, being bolshy or trying to eat) and he was a horse that if he got an inch would try and take it the mile.

[Zippy]

I’ve been looking at the rope halter/lead combo. Problem there is that someone also takes him out in the morning (he’s never a problem going out, apparently), and that means all of the co-op folks would have to know how to do up a rope halter/lead combo. I don’t see asking them to do that. I could, of course, use it myself and just put it on in the evening before I bring him in.

My plan right now is to start doing turn-in every night just for him, and to do the ground work then. I don’t have any of this equipment (yet–I’m still making up my mind on the best way to do this), so my plan for tonight, the first night, is to use my longe line (it has a chain) and my dressage whip.

Once I have a better idea of what’s going on, I can talk to the others about how to handle him, but clearly I have to make it clear to him how he is supposed to act no matter who is doing the handling.

He did come from Ireland. He foxhunted in the US for two years and was sent to a sales barn because “he wasn’t big or fast enough.” I am not sure about this, to be honest. I took him to a foxhunting clinic four months into owning him, and he was so out of control that I ended up with a concussion (he belonged to an MFH and is clearly used to leading the pack). He has had very little experience with flatwork, indoor ring, or show jumps–he’s like an all-terrain vehicle. I busted us both down to work inside a ring over small jumps and teaching him to be a gentleman. That’s what we’re doing right now with the trainer. Once I can establish a better work ethic inside four walls, I need to translate that to outside the walls. He’s very smart, and very athletic (I think what happened at the clinic is that he overjumped and really “broke his back” over the jump and I wasn’t ready for it–but he was also way too strong for me.).

Like I said, I had my mare for almost 20 years and we knew each other inside and out, and he is very different. He’s the first Irish I’ve had. My mare was an OTTB and a completely different mind and animal. This one is very engaged and interested in what humans do, but he also figures out what he can get away with. Like I said, he’s young. I don’t trust him at all yet, outside of a ring. We have a lot of work to do.

He does take advantage if he can, but he has become much more respectful of me, and generally doesn’t mess with me on the ground. I just need to translate that to other people.

[Zippy]

p.s. The person who broke her fingers elected not to go to a doctor. She just taped them together and carried on. That was her decision, not mine. She tells me they are broken because she just knows they are. And she did admit she was holding the lead rope in a dangerous way. But obviously I cannot have this kind of stuff going on. The BO already suggested I should put this gelding on Depo. I don’t think that’s at all necessary, but obviously it’s up to me to deal with this situation. I love this barn and I’ve been there for a long time and that’s where I want to stay.

[Huntin_Pony]

If this place is within hailing distance of you, they can help you. A fantastic cowboy friend of mine teaches clinics there and I met a young woman from there who was SOLID in her horsemanship. If you and your horse go together, your future lives will be immeasurably improved, I promise.

http://gelinasfarm.com