Your best tactics for a horse that breaks away on the lunge

[EWim15]

I’m looking for any suggestions on really really firm techniques for teaching a horse breaking away on the lunge is not cool. I’ve got a very smart and very determined 5yo KWPN who is being a real brat on the lunge and no matter what I try he just finds a method to brace or explode against it and still get away. Long lining or round pens are temporary fixes and have not address the fundamental behavioral issue - basically he needs to try it on, find it super uncomfortable and understand life is happier being well behaved! I’m really determined and pretty quick so this isn’t really something that seems like it can be beaten by just trying harder - well maybe if I take up weight lifting

I’ve also had professional help from someone that specializes in difficult horses and his tactics tend to work for a few days before my horse just finds a new way around it. I’ve also just spoken to him and his last set of ideas didn’t work either :(.

My horse’s ground manners are impeccable. He leads, trots-up, loads, gets showered and fly sprayed all without a problem. If he is being led I can ask him to halt and he does so within 1 step just with my voice. He wasn’t always this way, but I have a super strong pressure halter that has been very effective. He isn’t in pain and doesn’t have any veterinary or shoeing issues.

Here are the things I’ve tried so far:
Round Pen - I don’t have access to one any more, but it really only stopped it from being an issue because he didn’t have enough space to get away so it was boring for him to try but not because he learned it was a bad idea. I do make a pen for him with jumps in the arena, but again this only helps keeps things safer while I test out ideas, but it still doesn’t fix the fundamental problem.

Lunge line through the girth and to the bit (actually I tie down my stirrups with a spare stirrup leather underneath his belly and run the line through the stirrup). This doesn’t work because he just explodes and uses the momentum from that to break away.

Long lining - generally more effective, but if he really wants to he has been known just to turn himself inside out and run off.

Super strong pressure halter which puts really strong pressure around his poll and over the nose. This is more effective, but still not strong enough.

Side reins - have tried 2 and just 1 to the inside. These actually seem to make him worse.

Have also tried side rein to the inside in addition to line through the girth up to the bit. Again not effective.

Today I ended up with a line through the girth and up to the bit plus his pressure halter on over the top and another line on that. He actually didn’t try breaking away which doesn’t mean I’ve won either.

Lunge line through bit, over the top the poll, and attached to the other side - just not strong enough.

I’ve found a few suggestions in other threads about chains which i haven’t tried yet, although some of the simple ones may not be strong enough. I thought about putting a gag bit on him and attaching the line to both sides??

He has also done lots of other in-hand and ground work exercises but he seems to be able to compartmentalize very well and doesn’t let obedience in other areas stop him from trying to get out of lunging!

[Hilary]

How about a small circle - only letting him out as far as you can control him. And leverage - but you’ve got that. The minute he gets a body part out of line on the bigger circle, back to the small one.

Sometimes you just need a bigger, stronger person until he gets it through his head. Dressage has to be the only sport where you occasionally think “wow, I wish I had an extra 20lbs to sit with!”

[GoForAGallop]

Perfect situation for a chain over the nose. How RUDE. You’ve unfortunately now taught him that he CAN get away, so if he’s as smart as he sounds, he is going to take a long time to break of the habit, and I suspect he will test you (and anyone else) for a long, long time to come.

Keep him on a smaller circle so that he can’t get as rowdy as he can on a larger one, but he’s going to have to hit that chain a few times before he figures it out. Wear gloves. Might even be worth having a quick and strong man (horse savvy, of course) do the first few sessions.

As long as you can do it safely, it sounds like it might be a good idea to have his special halter attached to a second line, as well.

[midstride]

Do you longe with a driving hand? I longe with line like a rein and find it helps me.

[EWim15]

Tried those unfortunately :(. Smaller circle doesn’t work - he sends his hind feet flying my way or just bids his time until the circle gets a bit bigger. It still hasn’t provided a “breaking away is uncomfortable and a bad idea” epiphany.

I have also tried someone stronger - the professional who is ex-army. He broke away from him too. The pro’s next solution was to take a rope loop it around the gate post and then loop the line my horse was on through that, to give an exceptional amount of leverage (i would stress my horse was never tied to the fence and he could have been instantly released in the event of an emergency). He then asked him to move his haunches away and walk towards him. All sorts of rearing and trying to break away ensued - and of course he couldn’t. Then he learned the happiest place was to walk towards handler. In that session he didn’t break away again. But my horse now does this exercise like a pro, but he has again compartmentalized it and not let it affected his behavior out on the line. At the end of the day the problem is that a horse is always going to be stronger than any human.

A chain over the nose just isn’t going to be strong enough. The pressure halter is way more powerful than that. Chain through his mouth maybe…??

[Winding_Down]

How frustrating! It sounds like you’ve done everything and this is a smart, tough horse. I am with GoForAGallop and would bring out “Mr. Chain.”

I rarely use Mr Chain for anything including leading etc. However, in those rare circumstances where a horse has bested me in the strength/rudeness department, Mr. Chain comes out and makes his introductions. He can be placed over the nose, of course… … … …

[GoForAGallop]

[QUOTE=EWim15;7653522]

A chain over the nose just isn’t going to be strong enough. The pressure halter is way more powerful than that. Chain through his mouth maybe…??[/QUOTE]

It’s not about being strong, it’s about how he’s going to hit that chain full on and it’s going to HURT. Make sure you don’t let him struggle against it, either. He needs to hit the end of the line/the chain, and your whip needs to be right at his butt to send him forward.

I would only put it through his mouth as a last resort…even lunging with a chain is a last resort for most people, and that’s over the nose. I’d probably stop lunging before then.

Also, if he’s kicking out at you on a small circle, he’s got respect issues that go way, way deeper than just wanting to go for a joy ride around the farm when he sees the opportunity at the end of the lunge line.

[horsecents]

I’ve had the best results using a stiff rope halter with the extra pressure knots on the nose. Reading your post, I think you’ve already tried that suggestion but just thought I’d add about the stiff part. Also do frequent changes of direction. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned behavioral issues.

[Winding_Down]

@GoForAGallop;7653532

It’s not about being strong, it’s about how he’s going to hit that chain full on and it’s going to HURT. Make sure you don’t let him struggle against it, either. He needs to hit the end of the line/the chain, and your whip needs to be right at his butt to send him forward.

I would only put it through his mouth as a last resort…even lunging with a chain is a last resort for most people, and that’s over the nose. I’d probably stop lunging before then.

Ya, this is serious stuff here. And when he hits that chain, you need to time it so you pop him at the same time. I would prepare to run and be quick… it’s all in the timing and being faster than he is… geeze, I so don’t want to do what you’re doing… :o

But I have been there before… and the outcome was positive.

[ACMEeventing]

Wow, what a handful.

Just to get some more background, what is the purpose for your lunging? Is he good under saddle or is there behavior issues there too? Because it really sounds as if the entire process of the lunging has degraded to surviving without an escapee.

I’m all for a CTJ when appropriate (trust me), but just to be an opposing viewpoint here I would really ask yourself “Why am I lunging this horse?”

Are you able to accomplish your training goals without lunging? I know it feels like the horse is “getting away with it” if you stop your efforts, but at this point your horse has modified your entire training plan to a very dangerous game of catch-me-if-you-can.

Put him on the bit, put his ass to work, and put him away tired. Wet saddle pads are a wondrous thing.

[BEARCAT]

I am going to go the complete opposite and suggest you teach your very smart horse Liberty work. No ropes, no chains, no strong-arm method. You are creating the desire for your horse to be with you.
(And no, I am not some lovey dovey flower child lost in lala land Just thinking out of the box since it seems you have already tried some pretty heavy duty tactics.
My horses all know how to longe the traditional way, sometimes even in side reins. However, they can also longe a perfect 20 m circle in a huge arena without being “attached” by any rope, halter, etc. I can control their shoulder and hindquarters from a distance.)
The hard part would be to find someone that can teach you the proper techniques.

[EventerAJ]

IMO, I don’t think a chain will fix your problem. It sounds like this horse has learned to “run through” pain to make it stop (and be free).

I have been fortunate not to have a serious escapee on the lungeline. I’ve had them get loose, sure; and I’ve had two who tried it again. Simple leverage worked in their case: I ran the lungeline through the bit to the girth. You have to be tactful, as it will spin them around on you right quick, but for the rein-yanking bolter it helps. I’ve also used that in conjunction with an outside siderein to help hold the shoulder, but only on a horse that was already accustomed to sidereins. You have to be quick with your feet, and able to soften the line, send forward with good timing.

It sounds like you’ve tried variations of that, though. Ultimately, you cannot control a horse through brute strength or fear of pain. You have to control his mind. This horse sounds like he needs some serious respect training-- beyond just “you stop when I stop.” You say he thinks about showing you his hind feet on a small circle? Absolutely not! Put him in a round pen (make one if you have too, fence off a portion of the arena or a small paddock) and make him move his feet when and where you tell him to. He has to respect you, trust you, and ultimately WANT to work with you.

I’d also do some in hand work, walking and eventually jogging at his shoulder. Make him flex his jaw, bend, leg yield at the walk, etc. Give him something productive to do in a very controlled manner. Then re-introduce sidereins and lunging on a small circle as if it’s completely new to him. You have to get inside his head and take away his initiative of breaking loose in the first place. Easier said than done, I know-- it will take time, but I don’t see any magic equipment that can fix him for you beyond what you’ve already tried.

[enjoytheride]

What happens when he breaks free? If you set it up so he can’t break free but when he does he’s in a serious world of hurt that might be the best band aid for your problem.

[kookicat]

Lunging him with a chain through his mouth is asking for injuries, IMO.

Have you tried a caverson on him? Tried lunging him with two lines?

I think I’d start with him tired, after he’s worked. Put him on a small circle and praise lots when he does as you ask. (Which at this point with me would literally be going around once or twice in a controlled way.) End on a good note.

I’d also be looking at keeping his mind engaged all of the time. Transitions, changes of direction, halts.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

it isn’t a strength thing…rope halter or chain is a must…but you MUST keep an angle on him. He is pulling free because he is getting the leverage on you. This type of horse it tough to retrain. You have to move your feet fast to not ever let him get the angle he needs to pull free. You can not trust him.

I personally do not find the line bit to the girth that helpful. It takes away your leverage…I might do it if I had two lines on him but at this stage you need more leverage.

I’d go back to the drawing board…and only lunge him in a round pen. Then move to one end of a ring (preferably indoor with walls) and have a few helpers on the open end with lunge whips to help keep him turning. Once they learn how to pull away…you have a monster of a time undoing it. I might skip lunging and move to long lining…but I really think the issue is you are not moving fast enough to be in the right place to keep control. You can not just stand in the middle of the circle at this stage in his training…you have to out think and out move him before he can make the move to pull free.

[Lilykoi]

Dumb question maybe, but do you have to longe him? I have a barn full of horses from young to old and rarely longe any of them. Maybe its his one bad thing you will never get him past. Can you just free longe him in a small paddock if you need to get the boogers out of him and then just train him from on top?

[Sparrowette]

foot rope?

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=GoForAGallop;7653514]
Perfect situation for a chain over the nose. How RUDE. You’ve unfortunately now taught him that he CAN get away, so if he’s as smart as he sounds, he is going to take a long time to break of the habit, and I suspect he will test you (and anyone else) for a long, long time to come.

Keep him on a smaller circle so that he can’t get as rowdy as he can on a larger one, but he’s going to have to hit that chain a few times before he figures it out. Wear gloves. Might even be worth having a quick and strong man (horse savvy, of course) do the first few sessions.

As long as you can do it safely, it sounds like it might be a good idea to have his special halter attached to a second line, as well.[/QUOTE]
Agree.

There are still lunge lines made with a chain. for this exact reason. Practice a 5m volte in hand - he circles 5m around you, you push him out. When he bolts forward he will hit the end of the line and that chain will HURT - trust me, it is a lot stronger than a pressure halter in the right situation. A rope halter could probably work too. Make sure if you do put the chain over the nose that you also loop it through the jaw pieces and up to the cheek piece. That will essentially secure the halter down - sometimes when they bolt they can take the halter right off otherwise.

Does he rear? Or would he, if pressure was applied? For the really, REALLY rude horses I will loop the chain UNDER the jaw and up, around to the cheek attachment. This is a pretty severe thing to do so I reserve it only for the nasty bolters (who don’t rear) and will make a rearer want to go up. But this is a REALLY last resort because it is very, very strong and is NOT appropriate for horses who aren’t used to that kind of pressure.

In addition, placing the side reins BETWEEN the legs will work WAY better than attaching the side reins to the side/on the flank of a surcingle.

There are actually a few active threads in the EV forum right now about other posters who are having problems with lunging/bolting horses. One of them in particular has several really good tips for bolters who escape but I can’t for the life of me remember the thread.

I have a guy who is learning to lunge right now - I keep his side reins loose but attach them to the bit and then through the leg to the girth. This keeps him from thinking he can bolt.

For the really nasty ones, sometimes I just dig my heels into the ground when the bolt and YELL. That usually stops them pretty quickly.

[Larbear]

How are you lunging and where/how are you positioning yourself? I’ve encountered several that would attempt to bolt off and away while lunging. I found that getting more behind them, say back to where you are almost across from the hind quarters (obviously not close enough to get kicked) puts you in a more stable position. When they try to boot and scoot it’s a lot harder for them to get away and can get them to pivot around you. This worked quite well for very stocky Fjord and a mustang cross and I am not a big person.

[Polydor]

[QUOTE=Sparrowette;7653723]
foot rope?[/QUOTE]

Somewhat interested in this and I think I know where you are going with it. But few more details please.

And totally agree with what EVenterAJ suggests.

P.