What else are they supposed to do with themselves if they aren’t broodmares? Sit around and knit?
Wasn’t Moni Maker racing after she had been flushed? Or is my memory faulty? At any rate, I do believe stakes only are allowed.
There were a few ET foals in Western Canada way back when as the technology was developed here, all breeds, and registered rather reluctantly byu the repective registries. Now things are regulated and at least in the Standardbred industry, all foals must be DNA typed regardless of conception or birth method and as already mentioned, only one foal per mare per year unless it is natural twins born of a non-surrogate. The DNA typing eliminates the old bait and switch with sires, the lab knows.
pardon any typos, I have a kitten helping me
[QUOTE=Pirateer;5286698]
What else are they supposed to do with themselves if they aren’t broodmares? Sit around and knit?[/QUOTE]
Pull out the stable laptop and enroll at Keller for an on-line MBA? 
Well I know Zenyatta stays busy with updating her blog and facebook…
[QUOTE=Ensign;5282406]
Thoroughbreds (the Jockey Club) do not allow ANY artificial means of reproduction. Stallion has to physically service the mare. No AI, no embryo transplants, etc, atleast if you plan to have your horse registered.[/QUOTE]
How does the JC know if AI was used? Lets say I have the expertise/equipment to do it myself. And I have a stallion and mare in my backyard that I want to breed. Does someone from the JC come out and watch the deed? Or when a foal is born, I say it was natural and that’s all there is to it?
Well, I will tell you from personal experience that it’s sort of tough for one person to collect a stallion (not impossible, but sure not easy), so that already brings at least 2 people into the equation.
Meanwhile, in most of the swanky TB breeding farms you have a MINIMUM of 4-5 people present for each breeding: 1-2 stallion handlers, 2-3 mare handlers.
And if one of them rats you out, your horse’s papers will be pulled, they will fine your butt and possibly ban you from the JC.
There is a well-known case of folks who did exactly that some years ago – they were breeding for “sport” TBs and did AI. The barn manager signed the papers as the breeding being LC, even though he/she knew better.
Then somebody ratted and all those horses had their papers pulled.
Someone mentioned that the bigger farms now film most breedings, but I don’t know if that’s true or not.
Actually, with all the $$$ she’s earned, she should be touring France and hanging out with rock stars…
Anyone seen the photos on “her” FB page of the handsome broodmare manager at Lane’s End?
Methinks she likes it right where she is.
[QUOTE=Glimmerglass;5284444]
For some reason - and I could be totally wrong here - but Haligator’s race mare Grade A. Fancy I thought was at or just sliver under 18hh. Maybe she can chime in. You can see just how much bigger she is down the stretch compared to the mare on her outside.
youtube 2005 Philadelphia Park - F/M maiden 3yr and up 1-mi 70yrds[/QUOTE]
:lol::lol::lol:
She looks like a horse racing with ponies! And look how tiny she makes the jockey look!
80-1, that must have been a nice Christmas!
[QUOTE=Sandy M;5286411]
Look at Genuine Risk -and she was retired relatively early - one foal in her entire life.[/QUOTE]
Genuine Risk produced two foals, both colts. Genuine Reward by Rahy and Count Our Blessings by Chief Honcho (who was onwed by the Firestones).
[QUOTE=Pirateer;5286698]
What else are they supposed to do with themselves if they aren’t broodmares? Sit around and knit?[/QUOTE]
Seriously? After being a champion racehorse, she has to “do” something? If embryo transfer were allowed, she could hang out in pasture, be hacked by grooms, become a dressage horse (!) and still produce those transfer babies. (I excluded jumping just to avoid “oh that’s risky too” comments). What do successful racehorses that CAN’T breed do? Cigar is a tourist attraction. Famous old geldings just hang out in pasture. Zenyatta and Rachel can’t do that?
[QUOTE=Ensign;5287981]
Genuine Risk produced two foals, both colts. Genuine Reward by Rahy and Count Our Blessings by Chief Honcho (who was onwed by the Firestones).[/QUOTE]
I thought there was only one, but still, not much production . Did either race, success fully or not?
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5287713]
Well, I will tell you from personal experience that it’s sort of tough for one person to collect a stallion (not impossible, but sure not easy), so that already brings at least 2 people into the equation.
Meanwhile, in most of the swanky TB breeding farms you have a MINIMUM of 4-5 people present for each breeding: 1-2 stallion handlers, 2-3 mare handlers.
And if one of them rats you out, your horse’s papers will be pulled, they will fine your butt and possibly ban you from the JC.
There is a well-known case of folks who did exactly that some years ago – they were breeding for “sport” TBs and did AI. The barn manager signed the papers as the breeding being LC, even though he/she knew better.
Then somebody ratted and all those horses had their papers pulled.
Someone mentioned that the bigger farms now film most breedings, but I don’t know if that’s true or not.[/QUOTE]
If they were breeding for the sport horse market, who would care if the papers were pulled? You’d still have a documented pedigree as far as breeding a hunter-jumper-dressage horse is concerned. Stupid to lie when it DIDN’T MATTER. Still, I suppose if the stallion were breeding for the racing market AND the sport horse market, it would have some importance. Still, I think the Jockey Club is clinging to live cover only just because “that’s the way we’ve always done it.”
I recall Spectacular Bid was offered as a sport horse sire, but I can’t remember if the ads indicated they offered AI. I gather he wasn’t all that successful as a race sire? Not sure.
[QUOTE=Sandy M;5288559]
I thought there was only one, but still, not much production . Did either race, success fully or not?[/QUOTE]
No, neither raced.
Genuine Reward stands at stud, Count Our Blessings was gelded early on and is someone’s riding horse.
Regarding Spectacular Bid, no, he wasn’t a succesful racehorse sire…
Someone asked if breeding farms in Ky video tape breedings. Many actually do, for insurance and verification reasons.
And they can get catastrophic injuries just sitting around as well. Poof. Dead.
Regarding Spectacular Bid, no, he wasn’t a successful racehorse sire.
Ah the continued myth …
Bloodhorse June 29, 2003 “Spectacular Bid: How Good a Stallion?”
You’d think the way some folks talk about Spectacular Bid’s stallion career that it was an overwhelming disaster.
Spectacular Bid’s big claim to fame is that he sired 28 stakes winners from his first four crops. That works out to an outstanding 16% stakes winners from foals.
His legacy is certainly more in the success with having sired productive broadmares:
Twenty-five of his daughters have produced the earners of more than $500,000, with nine of them members of the millionaire’s club. His 69 stakes winners include such grade I winners as Cara Rafaela and millionaire Janet, plus English and Irish champion Mozart.
As for Zenyatta maybe she’ll collaborate with Sting and Rudolph for a live version of this song as well as continue her Twitter feeds
GG,
He may have sire 28 stakes winner in his first four years, but he obviously not only failed to maintain that pace, but blundered big time from there. Do you think he’d have ever have left Claiborne or Ky had he continued to be a success?
You can also be assured many of those initial stakes winners were thanks to the amazing mares he’d have received in those early years. I’d love to know what their CI was. Considering the number of daughters he sired, he doesn’t even make the current top 100 on the Broodmare sire list.
He sired ONE Grade 1 stakes winner, and that horse never won another race after that. He finished out his career with 44 or 45 stakes winners, most of those were not black type.
Considering his racetrack hype and intial quality of mares (and thus opportunity) received, he IS considered a failure as a stallion.
Smarty Jones will likely be looked upon similarily years from now (though he was no where near the racehorse). He has the highest CI, thus the best opportunity mare wise and has already left Ky.
Don’t count Smarty out yet. He’s staging a bit of a comeback.
These days the fact that a stallion has left Kentucky is no longer considered a sign of failure. If that were the only reason for going, horses like Lion Heart, Empire Maker and Johannesburg would still be here.
Didn’t Empire Maker get sold to Japan? That’s not a comment on quality or lack of it, just that the economy’s bad but the Japanese breeders have enough money to make a persuasive offer.
As for Smarty, he might stage a ‘comeback’, but I very much doubt he’ll ever have been worth what they initially wanted for him.
For Hunter/Jumpers not needing papers, for that individual horse, perhaps, and if it’s a gelding, them sure (though you still have the issue of the stallion being banned) you might get away with it. And if you were breeding only for yourself and don’t care about selling for any sort of money. BUT–if you ever had one you wanted approved for one of the serious Warmblood books, they need papers.
And really, why would anyone NOT breed Rachel or Zenyatta (though at least with Zenyatta she IS older, so dumping her in a field isn’t quite as many years of paying for a pasture ornament)? Neither would ever anything spectacular the show ring, especially not dressage, there’s nothing of comparable prestige (an OTTB isn’t going to be a world-beater in any Olympic discipline except maybe eventing, and there heaven help you if they broke their back in a rotational fall. And of course eventing’s the one that would want TBs.) So what do you do, have them tool around in nothing shows? Cross them on nonTB stallions and waste their genetics on other breeds? Remember, the only reason Cigar’s a tourist attraction is he was shooting blanks, otherwise he’d still be in the breeding shed. If they’re infertile, then you look at alternatives, and Zenyatta at least would be a huge draw, but if they can carry a foal, the sensible thing to do is try and pass the genes on.
