I do seem to remember in the ‘old days’ long form, the horses didn’t go much past 16. 21 does seem to push the bounds but if he is game…
From a good good source over in Paris… they were going to let Will swap Timmy back in, Liz caught wind, threatened to sue USEF, IOC, and FEI and so they’re letting her go. Poor Will has 2 sound horses and can’t run. Typical Liz fashion tho… this is all alleged, but came from a very good source- someone who would know what’s going on
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Well, there went any goodwill I had toward Liz thinking she was finally getting her big chance.
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Ugh. WTF. Hard to root for her if this is true.
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This sounds on brand for Liz. She’s given me the impression several times in the past that very little will keep her from the goal of making the team.
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If that is true, just wow.
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That is a stupid rule! Will’s owners spent all that money shipping TWO horses to Paris and not being able to ride either one when at least one is sound? Is that an IOC rule?
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I’m going to disagree. Will of his own free will withdrew the first horse and then withdrew the second horse. Liz shipped over just for this kind of situation and you expect her to sit still for Will doing maybe this one or how about this one.
I disgree with direct substituion. They should have ranked the horse/rider combintions and then just gone down the list. Liz earned her place just as much as Will.
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Just went back to the FEI Olympic Regulations doc here to read about making changes.
To my reading, it sounds like teams could substitute “at will” up until the first horse inspection as long as all the horses were on the final entry list. Wonder what grounds there would have been for lawsuits.
As I said somewhere else, I don’t think 2nd horses would have been named as direct reserves if the selectors didn’t feel like they were a better choice than the first alternate horse and rider.
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I think this is huge speculation. I believe the “traveling reserve” horse is very much a team USA thing, not regulated by the Olympics. Once a team is declared to the IOC at the games, they can only sub in their 1st alternate. I assume they already declared Diablo, and could not go and pull a second horse they brought.
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I feel like we need proof or this is just a nasty rumour. Nothing against you OP just a strange first post.
Also would be easier to believe both horses are sound if we knew why Timmy was withdrew originally.
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The EN comment I saw said “US Selection Rules”, not Olympic Selection Rules, for the reasoning as to why Timmy couldn’t be subbed back in.
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This is not true. Teams can change their athletes up until 2 hours before dressage. However, in order to be subbed in the horse must have been presented at the first horse inspection. Teams can present up to 4 horses at the first horse inspection.
However teams can change athletes prior to first horse inspection at will provided that the athletes are nominated entries (as everyone is).
This has nothing to do with IOC or FEI rules.
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The bushes act as the real groundline. By the time a horse would put a leg into the fence they don’t see the fence to be able to take off. However, the bushes give a horse a visual cue as to where the fence is. It should jump easy.
I think this just serves as a good reminder of why we don’t withdraw a sound horse just because you feel as if your traveling reserve will perform better.
And I should note that the text messages I’ve gotten from friends over there with the USA and screenshots of other text conversations have mentioned that she threatened to sue the “governing bodies”…I took that to mean FEI, USEF, IOC, etc. BUT I may be wrong in who she allegedly threatened to sue and I should have made that clarification. But I personally do believe what my friends are telling me…based on past experiences with her. But again, it’s just an allegation give it whatever weight you want.
I believe that far too many of the rules are pretty vaguely written. In my eyes, that rule is made to protect horse welfare making it so a rider can’t try to ride a questionably sound horse if both their selected horses are not in top form. NOT to let a traveling reserve take advantage of a situation so that they can ride on a team. From what I have heard (again all alleged) team staff/riders thought it would be best for Timmy to get subbed back in, but Liz didn’t let it slide. Whether that’s right or wrong is up to your interpretation of the rules. End of the day, I feel as if Timmy/Will would have a better performance, but that’s just my opinion. And with that being said, I do wholeheartedly wish Liz a safe and competitive ride for the sake of Team USA, her owners, and her team!
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If this is true, it must make for a very uncomfortable team situation for the US eventers.
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For anyone who wants to read them, here are the US selection rules.
https://www.usef.org/forms-pubs/-KUPSZhT2So/2024-olympic-games---eventing-selection
On a quick reading, this particular situation seems a little “grey” to me depending on the reason for replacing Off the Record with Diabolo.
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Hmm, okay, interesting! I have not seen “direct reserve” horses named for any other nation, but it does appear there was a rule reason why Wills first horse could not compete
Yes and my understanding of this situation is if that rule was broken, Liz was going to sue Even though the rule really only stands to protect horse welfare. In my eyes, And from what I have heard, for welfare wasn’t in jeopardy here That Liz wanted to be on the team so she took the opportunity
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This is very strange to come out the woodwork and make this a first post.
Having worked closely with all of the support team over there, I have a hard time believing any of them would be relaying information like that. They all know how hard this is for everyone and moral in general. Between Dr. Johns, Bobby, Bec, Steph, Hailee, Erin, Abby and all the rest, they are top top class always.
Regardless, we have a great team and are very lucky to have so many incredible alternates. Wishing the best to all of team USA and wishing Will the best!
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