I may just give it a shot 
Might need a longer cinch to go with the longer latigos though–I measured my latigo today and it is 6’ long already, but my cinch is only a 28". I /wish/ I could get my cinch to stay back a bit so maybe this would help?
Thanks Pocket Pony, he’s been a lot of fun
On Froglander’s horse: Just be careful b/c he’s got abs of steel, so flat that the girth could go for a walk down his belly.
Just try it, and try the latigos in both places- you’ll feel what will work. It’s too hard to type what you will more easily feel.
Okay, thoroughly frustrated with saddle fit for the night 
I found another latigo so was able to give the V-shaped rigging a try tonight. Total failure My saddle worked its way forward even worse than normal.
I suppose at least I was able to try it before ordering anything.
Not sure what to try next
I’d love to see a pic of where it ended up. I wonder what’s up with it…
I had him trot and canter around a few circles each direction, it moved a bunch, I readjusted it and gave it one more chance, but then was disappointed and forgot to take pics of how much it moved
Here is a link to some video clips and pictures I took, working on adding captions to them at the moment.
If this should be a new thread, please let me know and I will delete it, thanks
froglander, I’m not able to see any of your pictures the way they are set up - do you need to change any settings so they are public?
FWIW, Mac’s saddle moves forward when I lunge him if I don’t have it cinched tight enough (I cinch up in a few stages and if I forget to tighten it all the way before I lunge then it goes forward), or if I don’t start off with it in the right place behind the shoulders (years of my h/j days have me tending to put the saddle too far forward, I think). I really struggle with this intellectually because I think it is wrong and it frustrates me and I worry that it is not the right saddle for him. Yet of the multitude of saddles I tried on him (maybe 20?), he likes this one the best. When I’m in the saddle, he lifts his back, is forward, carries himself well, and has better lateral work than in my dressage saddle. I worry that it is too wide or there’s too much flare at the shoulder, but that openness seems to be something he likes and allows him the freedom to move more. So I just go with it and listen to what he tells me he likes.
What kind of padding do you use? Have you considered a different pad? Is the problem you’re having that the saddle slides forward? Do you have this problem when riding or only lunging? What kind of cinch do you use? Have you done a back map to match the angles of his back vs. the angles of the saddle (crestridgesaddlery.com/Backmap.html) ?
I changed it to public so hopefully that link works now? I’ll change the sharing for the other album too.
It moves forward both when I longe him and when I ride.
Sometimes he feels great, sometimes he feels like he’s stuck.
I think back to a lesson I had a year or so ago in a dressage saddle I was trying out–it was too wide for him so used a half pad and some shims and made sure it was behind his shoulder. His movement with that setup felt so forward and free I think I’ve been trying to find that ever since (didn’t get that saddle because it didn’t fit me quite right). And even that was forward by the time I was done riding.
I start the saddle so it’s behind his shoulder and I can run my hand down it. By the end of a ride it’s tight up against his shoulder
I haven’t done a “back map” quite like that before, but I’ve done something like at the bottom of this page http://outwestsaddlery.com/html/saddle_fitting_guide_.html but I think that was a good year ago now, I should probably try it again as I think his back /has/ changed some in the last year.
Sorry to have derailed your thread I really did originally just intend to talk about the 3-way/V-rigging setup and it morphed into saddle fit frustration
Froglander, from the video of you running your hand under the shoulder, methinks it’s too wide in the gullet. A little room is okay, but you have a LOT of room.
I’ve been wondering if the “downhill” shims here would help.
http://www.aboutthehorse.com/secure-web/html/videopadorderform.shtml
Froglander, no worries about starting a new thread - unless you want to - I think it is certainly relevant to the initial topic.
I switched browsers and can see your photos, but the videos don’t play except for in the preview screen (stupid Windows!) so I don’t know that I’m getting the whole picture, but I think I’m getting enough.
Two things. First, in the video where you are running your hand down the front part of the saddle, there’s a BIG gap there - it looks too wide. And secondly, it looks like the saddle is placed too far forward over his shoulder. What would it look like if you moved the saddle back?
You want to be able to slide your hand under there, but not so easily, if that makes sense. You want there to be contact, enough so that you have to sort of shimmy your hand in there, but not so much that when you do so it pinches.
Someone on the dressage forum just the other day asked a question about the Corrector Pad (Len Brown) - have you looked into those? If you go to the website your eyeballs may want to bleed because it is so horrible, but it might be worth giving him a call to see what his recommendations would be for a saddle that is too wide and moves forward. He has quite a shimming system that may be what would help you.
His theory on saddle fit is interesting in that he actually recommends a bit of bridging when fitting the standing horse, because once the horse moves his back will lift and fill in the gap area. This is the first person I’ve heard say this - everyone else says that the tree should follow the curve of the stationary horse (as in the link you provided on saddle fitting from Out West). I have to say, though, it does make some sense. When watching Mac move around throughout the day in the pasture, sometimes he looks like he has a dropped back, so to speak (if he’s standing on a hill, or standing with a hind leg cocked, for example), and then other times his back looks flatter (if his head is down and he’s grazing, or he’s just standing napping with his neck relaxed). Even when you fit a horse who is standing square, his abs aren’t necessarily engaged and his back position can change tremendously with just a movement of his head and neck.
I feel for you, I really do. I feel like I am relatively good at determining if an english saddle fits my horses or not - but a western one still leaves me scratching my head even though I think I’ve found what Mac likes.
The “room to round up into” argument is an old one, unfortunately, and it’s hogwash in my book. Any amount of bridging means that the tips of the bars are going to dig into the horse’s back, and fire his topline. That only encourages him to drop his back and hollow further. Intentionally bridging is punishing the horse for being anything other than collected, and how many horses do you know that go around collected all the time?
A bit too much rocker is FAR FAR more kind to the horse’s back than any amount of long-term bridging.
Put another way, I’ve seen lots of pathological white hairs on the withers and in the wither pockets, but can’t remember seeing any around the midline of where a saddle would fit.
It probably doesn’t help any that he has slight dips behind his shoulders.
How hard is it to take the skirts off a western saddle (and still be able to put them back on)?
The tree in this saddle is a Steele Equi-fit “SE” tree (also known as their mule tree…)
try one of these pads
Prof Choice ortho Sport
looks like you can try it and return it if it doesn’t work.
http://profchoice.com/i-7303728-smx-air-ride-orthosport-saddle-pad.html
Froglander, what kind of saddle is that? When I used the Steele tree forms on Mac he also came up with a mule tree.
I’m finding I’m having the same problem as you and it is frustrating, to say the least. Mac seems to like the saddle but it rides forward, the pad (that I thought I had worked out) still slides out the back, and it rolls a bit. I think I might have to accept that it is too wide and see if I can find something else. I want to bang my head against a wall and scream in frustration!!!
Let me know if you figure anything out, pad-wise. I’ve tried various pads (think I’m on my seventh now) and thought I had it nailed down but now I’m second-guessing. :grief::mad::no:
To pull skirts:
Lots of work on a good saddle, figure 3-4 hrs if it’s the first time. Depending on nail to screw ratio, you may need to replace nails (always use stainless!) If the saddlemaker has used ring shank nails in any quantity, you’ll be cussing a blue streak.
TAKE…PHOTOS…OF…EVERY…NAIL.
I’ve done it three times, and enjoyed the process exactly nunce. Very educational and satisfying, but not enjoyable in any fashion.
It is from the RW Bowman company, kind of a combination of their B-Lite Ranch and B-Lite Trail saddles. I /like/ the saddle, and sometimes Cody seems to, and other times not so much, I just wish I felt more certain of its fit.
[QUOTE=aktill;7438147]
To pull skirts:
Lots of work on a good saddle, figure 3-4 hrs if it’s the first time. Depending on nail to screw ratio, you may need to replace nails (always use stainless!) If the saddlemaker has used ring shank nails in any quantity, you’ll be cussing a blue streak.
TAKE…PHOTOS…OF…EVERY…NAIL.
I’ve done it three times, and enjoyed the process exactly nunce. Very educational and satisfying, but not enjoyable in any fashion.[/QUOTE]
Good to know and I am strangely tempted, but I don’t want to ruin my saddle. I wonder if anyone has an old beat up saddle laying around they wouldn’t mind me…experimenting with.
Pulling the skirts is an easy way to be sure of fit. The skirts modify the shape a little, but not too much.
I was in your situation even after ordering a custom saddle. I wasn’t happy with the fit, stared at the saddle for three months after trying every combination of pads I could think of, and was very frustrated (mine bridged A LOT).
In the end I said screw it, and pulled the skirts off my brand new saddle. I then added and shaped some leather shims as so (different saddle, same process):
http://www.easphotography.com/Tindur/ReShaping%20Bars/
Getting the skirts back on square was a bear because I’d changed the shape quite a bit, but it worked in the end.
I’ve been riding that saddle for a couple of years now with only a 7/8" 5 star pad, and had no complaints.
The western world doesn’t like to microfit, and fine, I can buy that. When you have to use particular pads to get even a basic fit, and if there’s some danger that if the pads slip/get misaligned you’ll have a problem, then I couldn’t be bothered.
In my book, if you need more than a simple, single pad of consistent thickness, the saddle doesn’t fit. You can use shim pads to make it work, but it’s a pain.
Agreed, I hate fussing with pads, I want to just put my pad (a 3/4" 5-star pad) on, saddle up and go.
I don’t think my saddle is an /awful/ fit, but I think it could be better. And I’ve had more than one person say it is too wide.
Looking at another diagram posted on another forum, I’m also wondering if it would be more beneficial for the space between the bars to be narrower in the front than they are in the back if I’ve understood that correctly, which adding to the bottom of the bars likely couldn’t help much?
(I’d link to the diagram I am talking about but that site is blocked from work).
Your saddle modifying and making adventures aktill are very inspiring!
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