I just wanted to say that the picture of EventerAJ and her horse is faultless and I thank her for sharing it, and for her insights. I don’t want to keep going around in circles about the impossibly of a 5 year old competing successfully at Training level but look at this pair and try to tell me that they’re heedlessly running at a fence that’s above their ability.
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The rush is $$$$
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“Rush” implies skipping steps and cutting corners. Which is too risky and dangerous to do with horses in any sport (or in any realm of horse management really). I am a firm believer that the horse decides its own timeline. I have goals along the way: target points in development that I expect a horse to achieve prior to asking more of them. I want them to feel easy, accomplished, and approaching “bored” with the current task. But I do not want my horses to be bored, dull, lazy, disinterested in their job. I like daily training to be fresh, exciting, fun. I want my horses to be thinkers; to enjoy the puzzle of a new gymnastic, to face something they haven’t seen before and figure out how to be successful. Teaching horses to think, and enjoy the process, makes a safer horse and a more confident horse.
It’s not about showing my horse every single possible obstacle he will ever see and making a robot; it’s about giving him the ability to “read” unfamiliar questions (and learn from mistakes!) and still confidently figure it out. It’s the difference between a kid memorizing every letter of every word on a spelling bee list… OR teaching a kid root words, etymology, and how to sound out phonetically, so that the kid has a chance to correctly spell complicated unfamiliar words he’s never heard before. (And some kids will find it naturally easy; and others will always struggle even with spell-check, some are dyslexic, and you don’t ask those kids to enter the National spelling bee in grade school).
In that vein, I will ask more of horses whenever they are ready to be challenged. I don’t have a set timeline, and it’s rarely a smooth linear curve. There are stair steps, set backs, huge leaps and incremental rises. When the horse is ready, we move up. When he’s not, we don’t. If we need to move down, we do. It isn’t rocket science, and age has less do do with it than experience, talent, and confidence of the particular horse. There are some horses out there who just get better when the jumps get bigger and the questions more complex (not that Training is big or complex). Holding them back due to some arbitrary timeline may not be beneficial to the horse’s overall progress either. Moving a horse up before it’s ready will trash its confidence and cost you more time and money, so there isn’t much to be gained rushing a horse long term.
As far as “making a mistake” at solid obstacles-- yeah, it’s gonna happen. It’s probably gonna happen day 1 when I trot them over their first tiny little logs. They don’t know where their feet go, how to get legs in the air, it’s awkward bunny hops and leaps and four-legged landings. And big pats, neck rubs, loose reins and praise no matter how ugly it was. It’s not like the horse has been so perfect every step of its life that it has never made a mistake until it gets in wrong to a 3’3" solid table. The horses have learned footwork over tiny things, and loose in the jump chute, and under saddle over progressively challenging gymnastics. They jump well out of stride, but somewhere along the way they’ve also showed me they can handle a miss and still be clever and safe. If I feel the horse doesn’t have the athleticism, talent, and body awareness to handle an imperfect distance jumps of height, I’m certainly not going to compete him at that level. As a rider, I can make the decision to circle away if the approach/distance is too bad, or I can support him with my leg, stay quiet in my body, give him freedom to get it done, and pat him on the landing side.
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I love your post because it does an excellent job of showing why each horse and rider has to be treated as individuals.
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Thank you @EventerAJ for your excellent post.
“A fixed obstacle that doesn’t fall down” is possibly the root of the problem under discussion. A cross country fence doesn’t fall over but rather it is designed to have a shape, a profile, that allows a horse to slide over it when they make a mistake. Roll tops, ‘houses’ with the sharp edges smoothed off, natural logs and of course round poles used to build coops and rising rails etc. There are very few true verticals, such as gates, used today. Fences where a horse might not be able to muddle over are precisely the ones that have the collapsable “frangible” technology to reduce risk to horse and rider.
Speed also comes into play because the faster the horse is running the less time it has to read a fence. The required XC speed (to meet the time set on the carefully measured course) increases as the horse becomes more experienced and goes up the levels. An obstacle jumped slowly at a low level becomes a different question at a faster speed at a higher level, even if the fence remains the same. Similarly, a simple ‘roll top’ on the flat is a different question if positioned on a curving line or approached up a slope.
No course is ever designed for a flat out gallop on totally level ground. That is not what XC is about. The rider has to learn to adjust speed and balance of their horse according to terrain and the type of obstacle and to feel how their horse is coping with the situation. The horse has to learn to use themselves across terrain and to recognize and read the types of obstacles. A log is a very different ask from a ditch and the horse and rider both need to be educated to handle each safely. Both have to learn to trust each other. It is that education and relationship that takes time to develop. Some horses are more talented than others. Some riders are more talented than others. Some 5 year olds are ready, others are not. Some riders, IMO, should save their entry fees and spend their money on more lessons.
Show jumps fall over precisely because that is the test. Most obstacles are designed as verticals. Distances are short. Heights increase. The majority of fences are approached straight on. The excitement is in tight lines, amazing turns, a huge stretch followed by extreme collection. The satisfaction is in getting a clean round. The horse is jumping off it’s hocks, the rider is tightly controlling stride number and length. Look at the metalwork in the mouths of many showjumpers to see how much control the rider is seeking.
Hunters vs Eventers is a bit like American Football vs Rugby or Aussie Rules.
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You may be “very, very hesitant” to put a 5 yr old horse that you have trained in a 1meter jumping class, however your horses and your training ability must factor in to your hesitation.
There are plenty of 5 yr old horses that are fully capable of jumping a 1 meter SJ course, when they are properly brought along by a good rider/trainer. Others are not, and more people than you seem to think are capable of knowing what each horse is capable of and how not to over-face them.
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The obvious thing in this thread is seeing the people who understand that horses are not all created equal. A smart, sharp 5yo is very very different from a slow-learning, unathletic 5yo, which is very different from a worried, tense 5yo. To some horses Training level is the top of their talent and it will take them a while to safely and confidently master the skills required to get there. To others Training level is an absolute walk in the park and they master those skills quickly and easily. Some horses need their brains engaged in order to continue learning, others need to do the same small and slow things on repeat for much longer in order to feel confident in their work.
I also believe 100% that you can just as easily sour (or inspire them to develop some “creative” habits to entertain themselves) a really smart and talented one by doing the same “uninteresting” thing over and over and over. The whole point of being a good rider/young horse trainer is understanding that they’re all different, and then doing what that particular horse requires in order to learn and thrive.
As to this question: “Why not let the horse have some more confidence building miles?”
Lord above, if my now-6yo had gotten any more “confidence building miles” below 1m as a 5yo, I think his ego might have exploded right out of his body. 
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I took a TB mare training level in the fall of her 5 year old year. She went preliminary in the spring of her 6 year old year. There wasn’t a jump or grid she couldn’t do. She locked on and went.
I’ve also had horses at 7 who were iffy on bumping up to training level. They took a lot more hand holding.
Currently am trying horses in Europe. I’ve been looking for the past few months, mainly it started with going to see horses with my trainer out here for her horse shopping and then I decided to look. I have seen so many horses, it’s crazy. Anyways, at 5, for the most part, they are jumping and showing around 1m.
There are also ones that haven’t really done much by 5 bc of various reasons, but quite a few were dealing with growth or owner time issues or whatever. Doesn’t make them bad horses, just makes them horses.
On a note, is pushing all horses to fit this mold of competitive by a young age helpful? Ehhh, well, no. I think some horses handle it well, both mentally and physically. I think others do not quite have the development for it yet. I always think it’s a bit tough when a time-line is in play, but the YEH is a voluntary program, not mandatory.
Comes down to actually being a good horse trainer and listening to the horse.
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Something pointed out a few times that I felt bears repeating is, when you are on a well bred horse, Training can be very easy. What holds back the “average amateur” (if there even is one!) is often they are buying horses coming off of other careers - it takes time to unlearn their former discipline’s training, and then time to train them how to event. From their perspective, having a horse going Training at five can seem impossible.
When you have a horse you back yourself, it’s very different. Those horses come out of the gate on much better footing than a horse coming off the track or from another discipline. Some of them already have the natural balance and confidence in their body that you[g] would spend months installing on an off-track horse.
My last horse that went Training did so at 6 - ironic to the topic of this thread, I took him back down to Novice shortly after. He had the scope that made any Training question incredibly easy, but his rideability wasn’t there and frankly, my riding wasn’t as good either. I joined a BNT program to work specifically on this. Most of the horses in this BNT barn were four to six years old and going Training or Prelim. He was considered “behind” in his education. When you are in a top class barn, with young horses going through the “UL Pipeline”, you’ll realize that for them, Training is not a big ask at all.
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Unfortunately too many pros with very athletic 4 and 5 year olds do not follow the logic and program set out in this incredibly well expressed post.
Pro has had one top level horse, for example with a Rolex Kentucky completion, and desperately wants to get back to that level, go to the Olympics, WEG, etc. Pro is a very skilled rider with a new prospective upper level horse every couple of years. Training at 5 (easily and safely done), move up the levels as soon as the horse’s age allows it. No question the horses have the physical ability, but the brain is not ready. Result is that a horse with true Olympic potential is ruined (mentally or physically) at the age of 7 or 8 bc the rider had Paris 2024 as a goal, rather than giving the horse an extra year at Prelim and Intermediate and a realistic goal of the 2026 WEG or 2028 Olympics with a more mature well adjusted horse.
someone else said … why the rush? … $$$$ and the pros’ own ambition
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Listen to the latest In Stride podcast. Allison Springer discusses a bit about how challenging the young horse classes can be for some horses and how they could make it easier while still showing potential. She also talks about how she feels many young Irish sales horses are fried, mentally.
My mare could easily have gone T with a pro at 5 but she’s stuck with me so started competing T at 6.5. There are so many variables between horse and rider and venue that you can’t say it’s not ok to do. For the right combination it’s just not a big deal.
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Your whole post was excellent, and thank you for the contribution, but the sentence above is the crux of the matter, and the part that I think riders looking in from the outside can sometimes miss. Perfectly stated.
She also talks about the importance of moving both up and down the levels, regardless of on-paper success, based on the feedback you get from the horse underneath you. She discusses a mare of hers that won her first Prelim, but then dropped back and did four more Modifieds because Allison felt the mare was a bit taken aback by the effort she had to put in at the higher level. She re-established confidence before an outsider looking in would ever have known there was an issue. The mare is now successful at 3* and she is eyeing Advanced.
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Yeah it’s a good listen! Here’s the link for anyone interested https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/in-stride/id1602148957?i=1000630977075
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My horse was doing 1.3m competition at 5 years old in Germany (SJ) before he was imported to the U.S. He’s 21 now, very sound. He’s only done dressage since. I’m certain jumping big jumps was a sales tactic for a young horse, just as the fact that he knew a little p/p when he was imported. But I don’t think the seller would have shown him successfully at that age if he wasn’t ready to do it.
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Are we conflating a horse’s willingness (or ability) to do something, with their preparedness to do something?
It’s been discussed ad nauseum here that horses jumping pretty big tracks in Europe get imported, and are WAY less educated/broke than one might presume based on their record, but it was hidden by good/assertive riding.
So yes, I can agree that a rider can make up for a horse’s lack of knowledge.
And yes, I can agree that a naturally talented horse can probably do a prelim at 5.
The question is more of “is that a good idea, and is the horse actually prepared to answer the questions asked if it goes haywire in any way” and, to me, a 5 year old has not been breathing air long enough to answer that question with a confident YES.
It’s possible that the 5 year old is more schooled than the 12 year old that sat in a pasture, sure. But a 5 year old, for sure, can not possibly have the miles of a well-schooled 12 year old.
@endlessclimb - Even in my small circle I can think of several professionals and a few competent ammies who have done this successfully with multiple horses.
I don’t have the skills/guts/interest personally, but plenty of people do. This isn’t an outlier or something that only a few elite riders/horses can pull off.
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I think this is my hang up, is that I know way way way way too many riders who are terrified to get out of the sand box, but by-god they’re going to go XC! And a lot of them can muscle the horse around the course and get it done, however ugly it may be.
But ask those same people to join you for a trail ride and you’re looked at like you’ve got three heads and came straight out of the boonies.
It used to be that nearly everyone was out of the box, riding wherever. And I’ve seen that trend change drastically in the years I’ve been riding.
Even on here - the first thing I always suggest when someone is asking about a sticky youngster is to get the hell out of the arena. Note on here that there is push back almost every time I suggest it.
So, I suppose it is the experiences I have had, coupled with my successful training methods doing it “my way” (no stoppers, no run-outters, just honest horses who come to a fence ready to attack it), the slow way, the “I never want a horse’s confidence rocked” way, that makes me think that a 5 year old is a baby that should not be going at solid fences at training speeds.
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I will counter your argument as I would rather train a horse over solid fences than stadium fences. A log on the ground is more natural and inviting than any cross rail or flower box. A full growing sage brush is better than any oxer I can think of. And in my methods and philosophy, I get a bolder, more confident horse in the arena.
Your post also suggests you do not understand speed on XC course. We never tracked jumping any faster than 450mpm (training speed) at Advanced, including Rolex etc. (See my Speed Study). Horses at lower levels tend to jump around 350 or lower (arena gallop speed at best - jumper speed).
My 1980 self playing over a log with my jumper.
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I think this is something that many riders don’t understand, unless you’ve been there done that. For some talented horses, holding them back is MORE dangerous than moving them up. Some horses just don’t do well at lower levels; they get complacent, arrogant, and careless when the jumps and questions don’t hold their attention.
I want to ride a confident horse, not an arrogant one. There is a big difference. A confident horse is safe, smart, brave but studious. An arrogant horse is “stupid brave” and needs to earn a little humility, through bigger challenges or more complex questions. He needs to learn “assumptions” have consequences (in a safe, controlled manner).
If you’ve never ridden an arrogant horse, you won’t understand the relief you feel when you move up and the horse gets better. It’s the rider/trainer’s job to manage the horse’s confidence carefully, so natural bravery is preserved but it doesn’t boil over into an unsafe cocky ego.
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I don’t know many eventers that are terrified to get out of the arena. I am sure there are some, but it’s not the majority. Half of our local hunt is eventers. Looking over our hunter pace rosters, it’s all eventers (and some competitive trail riders). Eventers are galloping down Cranes Beach right now in Ipswich. I truck into a major local event hub here and there’s constantly boarders out on the trails. I really don’t see people being afraid to leave the sandbox factoring in a major way - those people usually don’t even compete, so they aren’t statistically relevant from a safety-tracking standpoint.
There’s value in pointing out that the opportunities to leave the sandbox have dwindled, though. We’re lucky in Area 1 to have a lot of conservation and open spaces, including over historic tracts of Hunting and/or old Event lands (Shepley Hill, Ledyard, etc) but others aren’t so lucky. With barns squeezed in around rising house developments, it becomes harder to expose horses and riders to open land; which is another topic for a different thread, but I don’t think falls at Training and up have much to do with amateur riders being terrified to leave the sandbox. If you are jumping at Training, you’re seeing a lot of mileage out of the ring between fitness days and XC.
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