Absolutely Amazing!

drifting cloud-thanks for that info. i’ll see who i can get to post that pic.

i also found this on the drf website-

  • Lost and Found Horses, which bought the 3-year-old Danzig colt Media Empire for $250 from a slaughter auction, has decided not to sell the horse, according to the group’s founder, Kelly Young. Young said the group has decided to keep the horse but has not decided whether to geld him or breed him. The colt, she said, is in good health, though he is undernourished and has a pinched nerve in his back.

Has anyone read a veterinarian’s health report on this stallion? Those of you opposed to breeding him–have you actually handled and seen this young horse in the flesh. There are many reasons that this horse is perhaps unsound, and many of these problems do not prevent using him as a stallion. The blood is there and DANZIG is retired. Use him for sport horse breeding! BUT first find out if this is a lethal problem!

Just give the new owners credit for having some common sense please!

Besides for $225-- this is cheap publicity focusing on the fact that GOOD horses do go to killer buyers. You can bet that there will be many buyers at the next auction and some of them will take home horses they would not have otherwise purchased.

Pitbulls don’t backoff either–they just bite and hang on whether its a good thing or a bad thing. Doesn’t mean anything, as its pure instinct!

And another. Too bad he’s not a mare.

Danzigcolt-1.jpg

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by windycity:
I also think it is a generalization to say that no good horses with no problems end up in the kill pen. There is a different story for each, and yes, lots for the reasons you have mentioned above…some will need only minimal work to be the “perfect” horse…but some end up there because of the financial choices of their owners and that’s it. NO horse is perfect and many of the imperfect horses of the world are sold who could have just as easily ended up in the pen…sheeeesh… I thought I was just lurking…what happeeeened? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I don’t mean that ALL the horses, 100% of them were beyond salvation. Of course I am sure that every now and then some good things with minor problems might turn up. But it require knowledge to pick that “hidden” value when it shows up. After this it requires a lot of talent to correct whatever issues they might have. Not for the average “lurking” guy here

It never ceases to amaze me what people will throw away. Today the rescue that I volunteer for bought a 3 yr old colt out of the kill pen at New Holland for $175. We normally don’t buy studs, but this one was just so spectacular that we couldn’t pass him up. She calls me and asks me to look up his name and find out what his pedigree was and if he has a race record etc. We like to contact past owners just to let them know what happened to their horses.
Anyway, I almost fall over when I see the sire was Danzig and the dam produced a stakes winner of almost $500k in Nebraska Tornado. There doesn’t appear to be anything wrong with him either other than he needs to be singing soprano to be in our program. Will be interesting to see how this one pans out.

I’ve been following this thread with interest, but have managed not to get into it, until now.

Finding a Danzig colt at the slaughter house is amazing to me. My inital reaction was that it was wonderful that he was saved and wondering if the racing industry would lose out on using this horse for breeding. Let’s face it, Danzig is pretty well known sire. Then it occurred to me that perhaps, if his issues were non-heritable (is that a word?) and he couldn’t mount, perhaps he’d be a worthy horse to try as a sporthorse sire via AI. I should underline “try”, as he may/may not, like any other stallion, pass on traits worth passing on.

Whatever the case, I think the rescue would end up being beat up by someone, regardless of what they did with the horse. If they breed him, they’re bad and if they geld him, they’re bad (to those who think the horse has good bloodlines and got to the slaughter house via some odd twist of fate).

If I were them, I wouldn’t have told a soul what I’d found. Of course, that doesn’t help with showing that they have good horses to be adopted, so it’s a catch-22.

Personally, while I think that AQHA and APHA horses may be overpopulated, the one thing I will say (buttoning flame suit here), is that at least those horses aren’t bred only for speed, bred for a career that will last maybe 3 years, then trained only to run and finally left to find a home when they are well beyond what the avergage horseowner can handle to re-train (I do agree that the average person cannot do this).

So, while I think it’s great that the racing industry donates to organizations to help find homes for these horses and at least makes an effort on their behalf, I don’t think that absolves it of all guilt for unwanted horses that end up at slaughter. Despite their efforts, they are as much a part of the problem as the clueless QH/paint people who breed Backyard Bessie to Nextdoor Ned.

Overall, I think the average person has a better chance of getting a paint or QH to a safe, rideable place, than an OTTB. This is probably the quality that makes so many people breed them. Unfortunately, it is too easy/cheap to get a new one when said paint or QH is lame or old, so they just send them down the road and get another one to ride, thinking that “someone” will take them in. Damn fools for believing that, IMHO.

So, having said all that, I will probably breed my paint mare in a few years. I happen to really like the bloodline and have already begun finding the perfect stallion to compliment her. Am I adding to the problem? Maybe, on the one hand, but my horses stay with me for life and will be provided for after my death, so maybe not entirely. I will not feel guilty for this, as why should I take on someone else’s throwaway for my personal riding horse, especially one that is not bred to do what I want to do? Actually, I probably will take on at least one horse in need of a home once we move to a larger property.

Heather, I don’t know how you manage to respond to those e-mails. Are you able to help some of these people or is it always in one ear and out the other?

End of the novel: Horse is bred-son falls through cracks-is found at same killer pen-nickers for camera-fade to black. JMHO

And yes, I know there are bazillions of breeding horses out there, but please contact his previous owners or breeder before gelding him. A nice stallion with a good pedigree may be worth something to their breeding program. (and I don’t mean monetarily)

This appears in the sunday edition of the Daily Racing Form.
By the time Media Empire’s strong though undernourished physique caught Kelly Young’s eye at the New Holland Auction in Central Pennsylvania on Monday, the three-year-old son of Danzig already had been sold for $175 to a Canadian horse slaughter company.Young operates Lost and Found Horse Rescue in York, Pennsylvania, and despite a sold tag already adorning Media Empire, Young knew the colt was one she had to have. She found the buyer, negotiated a $225 price, and took the colt back to Lost and Found.

“This horse was just gorgeous,” Young said the day after the sale. “He had just received a sedative and was getting ready to load the van, so I acted fast.”

Young was eventually able to piece together the colt’s history with help from a veterinarian and information on his Coggins test once she returned to York. Bred in Kentucky by Juddmonte Farm, Media Empire is the third foal out of Group 3 winner Media Nox (GB), whose first two foals are 2003 Prix de Diane (Fr-G1) (French Oaks) winner Nebraska Tornado and Group 2 winner Burning Sun. A condition affecting the colt’s hind end precluded Media Empire from ever racing and Juddmonte sold Media Empire in August 2003 for an undisclosed price to William Rickman Sr., an owner-breeder who owns Delaware Park in Stanton, Delaware.

Garret O’Rourke, manager of Juddmonte’s Kentucky operation, would not provide details of Media Empire’s condition but confirmed his identity and that he sold to Rickman last year for future use as a stallion since he could never race.

Rickman tried to breed Media Empire this year, but the colt could not mount mares properly, so Rickman used him as a teaser at Williams Grove Farm near Chesapeake City, Maryland, where Rickman stands another son of Danzig, Zignew.

"He’s got a bad back”"he’s sort of a wobbler”“but we tried to breed him anyway,” Rickman said on Wednesday. “He was a good teaser … but we couldn’t breed him, so I gave him to a guy who had five mares and said he could stabilize the horse to breed.”

Rickman declined to identify the individual he said he gave Media Empire to, and Young said the name Bob Thompson was listed on the Coggins report drafted a week before the sale. O’Rourke said Juddmonte had no knowledge of Rickman giving the horse away or that he had ultimately ended up at the New Holland Auction.

“For as much care as we give our horses, this is an embarrassment,” O’Rourke said. “We made sure it worked out as well as it could have, and hopefully, this won’t happen again. The end result will be good for the horse and the retirement foundation.”

Rickman overnighted Young a check for $500 on Wednesday to cover the expenses of saving the colt and he told her that he wished to discuss the possibility of him further helping Lost and Found financially as well as find Media Empire a good home.

“I feel terrible about what happened, but I have no control over what these rotten [people] in the business do with horses,” Rickman said. “I’m getting all the bad publicity for this, but it’s not my fault. There are more crooks in the horse business than in Sing Sing Prison.”

Young said her veterinarian examined Media Empire on July 21, and he tested negative for any neurological problems but had what Young called a “sticky right hock” as well as a recently popped abscess on the same leg. Young added that Media Empire had been “trotting, bucking, walking, and playing in his paddock” since arriving at Lost and Found, and the veterinarian said Media Empire could be a stallion with time off and conditioning.

As for pursuing a future for the colt, Young is working with Kim Zito, wife of trainer Nick Zito, on speaking with several agents to help her appraise Media Empire’s value if he is able to breed. Young said she received a $25,000 offer for the colt on Tuesday, and others have come in since.”"Ed DeRosa

Looks like there’s an update on Media Empire’s status, except…I can’t find anything on Lost & Found Horse Rescue’s website that says WHERE he is (and whether he’s gelded or not) - just these great photos of him enjoying himself “at his new forever home” - http://www.lfhr.org/. Does anyone know what his status is, or am I missing something on their site?

Great article. Congrats, Laurierace! I’m sure Lost & Found can use the money.

Please keep us posted about where the colt ends up.

Has the makings of a future movie. Keep an eye on this one. Remember the jumper Snowman, bought out of the killer’s pen. Sometimes owners personal problems make their horses wind up in the strangest places. Keep us posted with his progress.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Epitome:
Am I the only one who finds this whole situation a little ironic? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No you are not the only one.

I find that “tough love” rule just plain abuse because that get the money and keep the merchandise too… or better, that send you the horse for you to foot its bills and they retain all the rights on the horse…
A pre-screening of those interested in adopting it seems more then reasonable.
A follow up to see how things are going, seems fine too.
To retain ownership and dictate the terms of just about anything after pocketing the money is just plain “abuse” not to say something else a little nastier.

I would NEVER adopt a horse in such conditions and I discourage anyone of doing so because it can create situations extremely expensive to correct.

In the article we can see:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>that “he has a condition in his hind legs” but they declined to say what the problem really is.
<LI>Then somebody complaints about the “bad publicity” but doesn’t make any effort to put the blame where it should be.
<LI>Then it was also “declined” to name the last owner of the horse, the most important person in this whole affair.
<LI>Then the price initially paid was one, and the article says it was another…
[/list]
all things that make you go hhuummmm

I don’t find the whole affair “ironic”. In fact, at this point, I don’t have first hand knowledge of some details to find the right adjective for all this.

As you saw in one of my posts above I started making some questions about certain “discrepancies” in what is being said about this “story” by people directly involved in this events.
However I stopped making more questions about this because I am not in a position right now to spend time, energy and resources to find out exactly what is going on. If I was not in the “tight corner” that I am and I would be talking to a lot of people to dig the whole and complete story about this horse and how he ended up in that auction. The way the “story” is told and how fast it found its way to the press just shows that we don’t know everything about it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Epitome:
I fully expect to get flamed for saying this, but I think that it’s a valid point. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not by me. I look at most “horse rescues” with a weary eye.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Epitome:

If a rescue wants to dictate how a horse is going to be cared for, then they had best do the caring themselves, with their own money. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is another story. Many are waiting for a bill to increase the number of “pensioners” and taxpayer’s dollars to foot the costs and boost their “business” (so to speak).

Want a horse? Buy it from a trainer.
Plenty of them available in the CANTER lists and elsewhere. The trainers also need to sell them and go on to train the next one. That’s their livelihood.
Its cheaper, safer, no constraints, no “tough love” rules and, for better or for worse, you have the ownership of the horse.
Let the rescues do what they want with the horses they have with their own money.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flash44:
Instead of looking for the slightest little thing to criticize (Bald Eagle and Epitome), i was thinking, “Wow, imagine how many more horses they could save by making money off this one.” <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not at the cost of breaking their own rules that they impose on everybody else. This is not the slightest little thing" but a very important and worrisome rule.
The “look at what I say and not at what I do” style is completely unacceptable nowadays…

SeaOat…Yes, a pretty decent broodmare sire…but there are a lot that believe that this was due to those ‘best mares’ and not due to him as a sire. They say that those wonderful mares ‘carried’ him.

Why did you have to add ‘in the beginning’? Is that because top breeders quit using him after initial dissapointments?

Actually, his name appears often in the pedigrees of good Event horses. But I haven’t seen it as often as Danzig lately. Although the Bold Ruler line as a whole is sought after.

Personally, I like the Northern Dancer/Green Dancer line but I would look at everything down from Bold Ruler. Now add that to imported frozen from the UK and it makes me dream. However, I would never breed a horse from conformatio or bloodlines alone…I would need to see its movement and personality first.

Ooo.Kaaay. I guess that I could up that to “Pretty Decent” race record.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LaurieB:
If your colt is Media Empire, out of Media Nox, according to the information on the Pedigreequery board, he’s also a full brother to grade 2 stakes winner, Burning Sun. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That’s him.

Here’s the link…

http://www.trfinc.org/trf_secretariat_center.htm

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bald Eagle
You will also find all kinds of vitriolic prose against horse slaughter, which is no more then a fine way to create a monumental problem and a nightmare of “retired” horses that is impossible to manage and to support. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If we can (unlike so many other countries) funnel thousands, on top of thousands, of small animals through private, state & federal agencies (to be placed or euthanized) without the advantage of slaughter, then WHY is it so hard to concieve the same laws and plans for horses???
We already police abuse on equines as well as small animals. Few tax payers mind the service. I see little excuse for not extending our resources (taxes, public awareness towards equine abuse, neglect, over population, criminal ramifications, etc.) for horses and their kin.
If you can stomach putting to sleep Fido & Fluffy, then why can’t you understand the ability/need to put horses down? Racing greyhounds meet that fate regularly, though public awareness and better policing have cut their numbers somewhat.
A veterinarian wrote a commentary that appeared recently about the flood of old & neglected horses that would suffer w/out slaughter (haven’t heard that before ). In the company of 4 veterinarians (assembled during recent race day lull & not all from the same practice) someone chuckled at the letter (last page of July’s The Horse, I believe he said) and almost at once EVERYONE said “Euthanize”. And NO one would profit a nickle from sending their unwanteds to the kill pens. Owners may have another disposal fee instead.

Laurierace

I doubt that I’ll ever get an answer to this question, as you have avoided it so far, but how can you justify breeding this horse, based on Lost And Found’s own criteria for adoption?

I applaud your having adopted him, but how can you even consider breeding him, when the rescue doesn’t allow breeding of their adoptees.
I’ve seen this same question being asked on several differnt boards, but as yet have seen no answer, just the same replies with the same sort of insults that you are hurling around on this one.

I understand your wanting everyone to pat you on the back and tell you how wonderful you are, but any organization that begs for public funds in order to operate has to be accountable to that same public for how they handle their affairs, or they quickly lose the public’s respect, just as your organization has lost mine.

I simply cannot take seriously any rescue who is so perfectly willing to bend their own rules just to make a profit. That sort of kills your credibility as far as doing what’s best for the horse, and makes it seem as though you are more interested in what will bring in the most money for you.

By the way, is Lost and Found a registered non profit organization?

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by windycity:
BaldEagle
Ok…perhaps I should have clarified but I didn’t realize that by saying I was “lurking” anyone would assume that I have no knowledge or horse sense, experience or talent…I meant lurking on this topic. I imagine there are others who fall into the same lurking category. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
When I said “not for the average lurking guy here” I hadn’t anyone specific in mind. I just took your phrase meaning “not for people without knowledge”…
If you see my next post this will make sense.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>There are always going to be rules and there will always be good reasons for the rule makers to break the rules for a good cause, and I still think this falls in that catgory. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well that is also related to the fact that they have those contracts more stringent then when one is adopting a child… an abuse.
If they are so stringent with the others they must apply the same criteria to themselves too.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If you don’t like it - go start your own rescue and run it however you want - or don’t bother posting once you’ve gotten the answers you were asking questions on. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well its not in my horizon to do something like this. I don’t agree with them and will never use their services nor I ever will make any contribution to their purses. And that is all
About posting here, thats something else. I also lurk a lot, copy lots of posts with good info that might be of use, and don’t post very often. However, anti slaughter bill, horse rescues, and the like I simply can’t let it go without a “fight”

Have to go now. Long way home. Be back tomorrow again. God willing

Free…
Secretariat was a pretty decent broodmare sire having many talented daughters. He also had the best mares sent to him, as many talented runners do, in the beginning. I wouldn’t call him a flop.
“Fairly good” race record indeed!