Always get stuff in writing no matter who it is

[scstables2]

[QUOTE=Crockpot;8750125]
You have to have something lying around to exercise a right of first refusal.

I am guessing the Op sold the horse for at least 5K since she has not replied to that question.

Again- hoping all is well with the horse[/QUOTE]

No. I sold the horse for a lot less than this so if the horse did not work out, it would not be difficult for me to get her back. It was my fault I did not get this in writing because I trusted this person to do the right thing and honor her word. Never again will I ever do anything like this without it in writing.

[fordtraktor]

Let’s be clear. You were not robbed. You sold something and when it came time to buy it back, you did not want to pay the price the seller was asking so you declined to repurchase it. That is not robbery.

Plus, in your writing it appears you think the horse is unsafe to ride while it seems the new owner was able to ride it fine which might perhaps add considerable value.

You are lucky she offered to sell it back to you at all, I probably wouldn’t have if I found a horse you considered unsafe was actually rideable. I would have serious doubts as to it working out better for either of you during Round 2.

[scstables2]

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;8752252]
Two different (although possibly related, I guess) diagnoses.
Now that the acronym has been expanded, one knows what to search for.

Dr. Alan Shoen likens it to fibromyalgia in humans. and proposes that it is very often linked to Lyme disease. No mention of foot abscesses.

I would hazard a guess that the part about vaccines potentially “attacking” cardiac muscle is a poorly worded interpretation of what might occur in an immune-mediated inflammatory response, but I’d like to see some documentation rather than speculation that occurs.[/QUOTE]

http://drschoen.com/article/AJTCVMarticle.pdf

Its not the vaccine that attacks the heart. It is an AUTO IMMUNE problem where the damaged immune system begins to attack muscle tissue…

[scstables2]

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8752279]
It would seem that since the horse is thriving under her more recent management, which does not necessarily subscribe to this “Dx,” the “woo” here is a lot more relevant to the OP than to her former horse. Tends to follow words like “organic,” and “but only for the eggs, you understand.”
ONLY the OP can possibly take proper care of the horse, do the math.

Fibromyalgia (and chronic Lyme) are still controversial in human medicine, thought to be tied in to a strong mental component related to clinical depression. Not sure how you’d conjure that up in a horse, but we know the pathways for “woo” are infinite as long as someone’s writing checks.:winkgrin:[/QUOTE]

And btw, Dr. Whittaker did say not only could vaccines trigger the auto immune issue again, but also other types of toxins which stress the horse’s body. Dr. Whittaker was top notch in her field and she herself never vaccinated her horses.

I do follow Dr. Starita’s vaccine protocol for my animals then move onto nosodes for immunizations as they do produce titers (titer testing done and proven nosodes work in my animals).

[ladyj79]

Right of first refusal in no way means the buyer must offer you the horse back for original purchase price.

[scstables2]

[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8753269]
Let’s be clear. You were not robbed. You sold something and when it came time to buy it back, you did not want to pay the price the seller was asking so you declined to repurchase it. That is not robbery.

Plus, in your writing it appears you think the horse is unsafe to ride while it seems the new owner was able to ride it fine which might perhaps add considerable value.

You are lucky she offered to sell it back to you at all, I probably wouldn’t have if I found a horse you considered unsafe was actually rideable. I would have serious doubts as to it working out better for either of you during Round 2.[/QUOTE]

I did not say I was robbed, nor did I say the horse was dangerous. I only was upset that the protocol of Dr. Whittaker was ignored which caused the horse to suffer all of those abscesses. They were lucky that did not trigger the eimms, and if that would have happened, most likely the horse would become very resistant and there would be a small chance the horse would buck a rider off…

It is amazing how people can take one’s words and twist them around.

"When a bird is alive, it eats ants.
When the bird is dead, ants eats the bird.

Time and circumstances can change at any time.
Dont devalue or hurt anyone in life.

You may be powerful today. But remember.
Time is more powerful than you!

One tree makes a million match sticks…
Only one match stick needed to burn a million trees…"

[Foxglove6]

When a horse is sold, you do not have a say in its care. You can be frustrated. But it sounds like they had their own vet overseeing care and the horse could have had abscesses from any number of other things. Horses get hurt, it happens.

I’m sorry you were not able to buy back a horse that you wanted. But I’m not sure what you’re trying to do here other than garner sympathy. Your story is not a cautionary one or about getting things in writing.

[scstables2]

[QUOTE=vxf111;8749181]
The internet is forever, and this kind of helps piece things together a bit…

http://ewarmbloods1.yuku.com/topic/2528/How-long-normally-does-it-take-to-sell-a-hanoverian-mare

OP, you sold her with a first right of refusal, according to that post. You thought about free leasing and then decided against it. YOU didn’t want the risk. So you decided to sell her.

Did the person you sell her to offer to sell her to you before selling her to someone else? That’s usually all a FROR requires. It does not obligate the buyer to hold on to the horse for a very specific timeframe and then give the horse back to you. That’s a term lease, not a sale.

I wonder if there was a fair amount of misunderstanding between you and the person who bought the horse?! Have you spoken to her? Spoken to the new owner?

From other posts it sounds like the financial condition got really serious (could not afford medical care/veterinary care, were contemplating bankruptcy fraud, etc.). Maybe it was a blessing that someone bought the horse?! Even if she’s not yours anymore and you wish she was?! And you prefer a holistic vet/no vaccinations to however the new owner manages her. At least in the interim she was fed, boarded, taken care of and off your bankroll when things were so dire for you. You couldn’t call the vet for your lame pony-- but she was at least with someone who could do that for her if she got sick/hurt/lame.

I am glad things are better for you now. I wouldn’t want to lose my horses either. But if finances got so bad I couldn’t care for them, I would give them away and be gratified that they ended up with someone would could take care of them. Even if that person’s exact horse care standards varied from mine.

I feel like stepping back and trying to be a bit more objective/accept that you had to make a decision that was a rock and a hard place is more productive than dwelling in being upset/second guessing the decision you made this many years later. As best as you know, she’s happy now-- right? So many times the story doesn’t end with a horse in a decent home. They may not use holistic vets but it could be so much worse.[/QUOTE]

I hear you.

We know where the mare is now, and I have friends who keep me updated sometimes (and do drive bys)…

I also had reported this to Animal Control in 2014, and she said I could hire a lawyer and sue to get her back due to the neglect of the veterinary care which caused her to suffer for 5 months straight. However at that time I did not have enough funds to hire a lawyer to pursue this. There are NO laws which protect any animal from neglect of following the care outlined by a vet which in my opinion is borderline animal abuse.

And who ever said it was elitist about making statements about needing to be well off to own a horse I agree. I know of those who rent and get partial food access cards and still own a horse…

[Sugarwells]

You are not a victim of one single action anyone has been a part of. You sold your horse. That’s it.

[Ghazzu]

[QUOTE=scstables2;8753257]
http://drschoen.com/article/AJTCVMarticle.pdf

The point of the thread was to alert those who are prey to being taken advantage of and getting shit in writing before one is robbed of something precious to them…[/QUOTE]

According to what you’ve posted, you sold a horse with right of refusal at resale, and the horse s offered to you, but you cannot meet the asking price.

How is this robbery, and what does the horse’s alleged medical issue have to do with it?

[scstables2]

[QUOTE=Foxglove6;8753313]
When a horse is sold, you do not have a say in its care. You can be frustrated. But it sounds like they had their own vet overseeing care and the horse could have had abscesses from any number of other things. Horses get hurt, it happens.

I’m sorry you were not able to buy back a horse that you wanted. But I’m not sure what you’re trying to do here other than garner sympathy. Your story is not a cautionary one or about getting things in writing.[/QUOTE]

Really hard lesson for me, and this is not what I wanted to happen to my ex-mare. And to feel completely helpless to be able to do nothing to stop it that was the WORST.

Hopefully many will THINK first before they sell their beloved horse, even to family members or to those who they thought were good friends. One is best to lease out which is what I wanted to do in the first place. I know many who have leased out successfully. Except I was talked out of it in a state of fear with a million promises that NEVER were kept.

[scstables2]

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;8753372]
According to what you’ve posted, you sold a horse with right of refusal at resale, and the horse s offered to you, but you cannot meet the asking price.

How is this robbery, and what does the horse’s alleged medical issue have to do with it?[/QUOTE]

Robbed may have been the wrong word. TRICKED out of…

[scstables2]

It is amazing when one tries to teach others not to repeat the same MISTAKE and yet some others turn the thread into something it’s not…

How overly confusing the human race is…

[Ghazzu]

[QUOTE=scstables2;8753279]
http://drschoen.com/article/AJTCVMarticle.pdf

Its not the vaccine that attacks the heart. It is an AUTO IMMUNE problem where the damaged immune system begins to attack muscle tissue…[/QUOTE]

I am familiar with the cited journal article.

It does not describe an autoimmune condition, but an immune-mediated one.
There is a difference between the two.

Nowhere in the article is any cardiac involvement mentioned.

[scstables2]

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;8753372]
According to what you’ve posted, you sold a horse with right of refusal at resale, and the horse s offered to you, but you cannot meet the asking price.

How is this robbery, and what does the horse’s alleged medical issue have to do with it?[/QUOTE]

The person who talked me into buying my horse at the time made the promise to follow the veterinarians suggestions. She did not which upset me greatly and the horse produced the abscesses just like she had in the past from vaccines. Except for this time, the horse received many more vaccines than she had ever had in a LONG time, producing all of those abscesses.

My veterinarian knew what she was diagnosing (besides the eimms)…

[scstables2]

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;8753388]
I am familiar with the cited journal article.

It does not describe an autoimmune condition, but an immune-mediated one.
There is a difference between the two.

Nowhere in the article is any cardiac involvement mentioned.[/QUOTE]

My veterinarian had mentioned possible auto immune issues also…

immune mediated myofascial syndrome. myofasical - muscle. the heart, a muscle…

[RedmondDressage]

[QUOTE=scstables2;8753378]
Robbed may have been the wrong word. TRICKED out of…[/QUOTE]

You weren’t tricked. You didn’t have the cash.

To be blunt, you sound like an absolute nightmare of a seller. I honestly can’t believe the buyers offered the mare back to you. You’re accusing them of neglect and reported them for following the advice of their own vet rather than yours? That is one of the most bats@&? crazy things I’ve ever heard, and I’ve been in horses for 30 years so that’s saying something.

[scstables2]

[QUOTE=Sugarwells;8753340]
You are not a victim of one single action anyone has been a part of. You sold your horse. That’s it.[/QUOTE]

Were you there when the verbal agreements of the sale were initiated? Nope. I have a right to speak out when people do not honor their word.

Honoring one’s word is something I hold highly. This is not something many are able to do on this planet and this is a sad thing. It is a wonder the human race has not self destructed yet.

[scstables2]

[QUOTE=RedmondDressage;8753395]
You weren’t tricked. You didn’t have the cash.

To be blunt, you sound like an absolute nightmare of a seller. I honestly can’t believe the buyers offered the mare back to you. You’re accusing them of neglect and reported them for following the advice of their own vet rather than yours? That is one of the most bats@&? crazy things I’ve ever heard, and I’ve been in horses for 30 years so that’s saying something.[/QUOTE]

You don’t know the whole story.

And I have sold two horses in the past with NO issues…

BTW after I found out the mare suffered all those abscesses, I faxed Dr. Whittakers diagnosis paperwork to this vet. They had NO idea because owner never told them…

[CindyCRNA]

OP, I am so sorry you are going thru this and I am sorry for how insensitive some here have been. I understand autoimmune and not wanting vaccinations. We had 3-4 young 20-somethings die shortly after getting in-country after multiple vaccinations during in-processing and an undiagnosed autoimmune disorder so it is not to be taken lightly. I am also so very sorry at the horrible regret you have for something that at the time, seemed like a wise idea. While the new owners seem to love her (?), they may be missing the mark on top notch medical care in your opinion. I truly am sorry. I have a 16 year old TB I have had since birth and I could not bear to go what you are going thru.