Amateur rule: where do you protest someone’s status?

[trubandloki]

I think if you want to debate that you should start a thread in current events. Unless your intent is to get this thread closed.

[soloudinhere]

I’m not even going to debate this, because it has nothing to do with dressage, but suffice it to say your understanding of Constitutional rights is fundamentally flawed, and your attempt to equate it to the current issue being discussed is simply embarrassing to you.

[Cowgirl]

I AGREE! Clinic opportunities should not be separated by AA or Pro, but by level of riding skill. Because I have my bronze, silver and gold medals (earned with my own training of the horse), I can attend the USDF annual trainer’s symposium, but I am not allowed to audit my GMO’s pro training clinic unless I want to relinquish my USEF AA status. Yet, a person who HAS relinquished their USEF AA status but has not ridden above training level or has any students, may attend. I don’t know exactly why the clinics are closed, but have been told it is to prevent the pro’s students from attending and perhaps seeing them have a less than stellar lesson. However, I also do know that in past years they did allow the horse’s owner to attend the clinic.

When I renewed my GMO membership, the GMO sent me a communication directing me to submit my USEF AA card (which is just your membership card designating Amateur status). If you do not submit this card, you are ineligible as an amateur with the GMO (for awards, etc). So I asked the question: if I do not submit my USEF amateur card and am ineligible for GMO amateur only activities, can I then attend the pro clinic? I got a somewhat nasty correspondence back informing me that they will consider me an amateur whether or not I submit my card based on my USEF status, but if I truly am a trainer, I am in violation of the rules and need to relinquish my amateur status with USEF immediately. Of course, this communication was just nasty and not accurate: it is entirely possible to be BOTH an amateur AND a trainer if you are only training your own horses or training horses owned by others but not accepting any form of compensation (except for the permitted small gift). So this just puts a category of people, and I am not alone in this, who train their own horses but who are also not earning money into a zone where the GMO does not really service them for educational opportunities…

[atlatl]

No problem at all. Be well!

[lorilu]

@J-Lu

The vast majority of AA’s I’ve know who regularly show came from money and rode on their parent’s dime when they were not independent. Many of them did not face the expenses that the typical AA faces. I disagree that riding as a kid helps so much, yet most of these people did or as a young adult. Riding as a kid teaches you to hang on and ride over hills and dales or swimming in a lake. That’s not dressage training. It is obviously a different story when you can afford to keep your horse in professional training and come out and take lessons. Are you suggesting that training your horse yourself via periodic or once a week lessons is the same as having your horse in full-time professional training? They are incongruous.

So are you suggesting two divisions - AAs with full time trainers (ie, money) and riders without?
I for one am an AA who rode an off the track pony (he led the TBs out) with no instruction until some in college, yes that on my parents dime BUT could nto take my horse to college (I did western), couldnt afford it as an adult until I moved to Ocala and Dad bought me a $3500 TB. That was almost 25 years ago.
I’m now showing PSG, having been able to get better horses on MY dime (even as a teacher).
So your characterization of competitive AAsis certainly flawed. The VAST majority that I know are regular folk struggling along with occasional lessons on whatever horse they could afford.

[lorilu]

@Manni01

It took Native Americans in North Dakota til 2020 to get the right to vote… So this rule will stay…

This is not true. They had the right to vote until a “street address ID” law was passed - about 2013. It was overturned. https://apnews.com/article/6949540043

[Manni01]

7;years later… and why did this law pass in the first place?

[Manni01]

Ts ts… very sorry for you . But another proof of how weird these AA and Pro classifications are…

[lorilu]

YOur GMO is really doing it wrong. I am sorry to hear that.

[lorilu]

WHy not read the article I posted? Because a D won an election with the help of votes from the Res. ANd R ran the legislature. ANd 7 years because the courts are slow in this nation. And during those 7 years, there were ways to provide street addresses to Res residents.
Get over all this,
Ride your own damn test and take your own damn journey.
THAT IS WHAT DRESSAGE IS ALL ABOUT.

and BTW, it’s not AA vs Pro; the OPEN category is OPEN to all. At least get your argument correct.

[soloudinhere]

@Cowgirl I recognize your particular grievance but I think this is a really specific situation. It is not the situation in either of the regions where I ride, except that one is a PITA for the lottery to audit the annual symposium.

[atlatl]

@SillyHorse

@J-Lu

To be clear, after scribing for many years, all horses are compared to their peers. That is how the judge places horses. I’ve shown enough to know that my placement depends on the horses in the class, and not uncommonly, my comments on the score sheet depends on the horses in the class. I’ve scribed enough to know how this works.

I can’t figure out how this works. When the first horse comes into the ring, does the judge know how all the following rides will go so s/he knows what score to give the first horse? And the second one? And on and on until the class is over and all the rides are placed (according to the judge’s ESP) correctly? Or once the class is done, now that the judge has seen all the rides, does s/he go back and change scores to reflect the desired placings?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Ideally, each horse is compared to the same ideal standard. That said, I’ve also scribed a lot and there are some judges who keep track on the day sheet of the collective scores they give during a class to help them be consistent in their scoring. Having gone through the L program, it was very hard to be utterly consistent, at least for me, in not being overly impressed at the lower levels by fancy horses. The practical is what kept me from being a distinguished graduate.

So, if the first horse in a class is uber fancy, but isn’t scored excessively high, subsequent less fancy horses will be scored lower.

Hope this helps.

[Cowgirl]

Perhaps, but it highlights that there should be no division between AA and Pro, but perhaps divisions based on skill. Those who buy their way into scores will soon be schooled on skill when they have to ride in a public symposium. My GMO is losing members left and right and so I don’t understand the motivation to be (1) exclusive, and (2) nasty.

[J-Lu]

No, I’m not suggesting anything as much as pointing out what goes into the AA bin and responding to others. Many dedicated AAs couldn’t compete against you due to $$. That’s kind of a fact. NOTHING against you and your success but this is kind of a fact.

[Manni01]

Yep, thank you it is what it is !!

[Manni01]

It doesn’t really matter what arguments somebody pulls up … they are all wrong anyhow because this particular way of dividing equestrians up beautifully serves it purpose… It divides people so they don’t complain about the next raise of fees …

And I know this it is something very different, so poster here can stop to tell me that I am wrong (and I am not addressing you J-Lu sorry for using this post for it).
But now that I started to think about it… I wonder what responses Native Americans got when they asked to vote between 2013 and 2020… I am close to 100% sure that these Republicans did not tell them that their arguments were legible… otherwise the court journey would not have been necessary I am pretty sure the arguments, sounded like some here… Some were threats and some told them that they don’t know what they are talking about and that they are getting it all wrong

[soloudinhere]

You’re really still doubling down on this analogy?

[Tarlo_Farm]

And maybe that’s all it is.
The comment is that the owner of this Horse of the Year, “decided to stay home…and train. She usually shows at the US Dressage Finals in Kentucky in November and then continues on to her winter base in Loxahatchee, Florida, but the 2020 Finals were cancelled, so (she) packed up and headed south earlier in the fall.”
Then she shows up as the top GP Freestyle AA.
Maybe just very wealthy and talented, not necessarily taking money for her training.

[Tarlo_Farm]

See my reply to Scribbler.

[CanteringCarrot]

Hunter/Jumpers to Roll Out New Divisions Based On Income - The Plaid Horse...

looks at watch hmm…April 1st…