[QUOTE=Elles;8889961]
Okay, that was that. If more people would like to discuss these last to posts, please open a new topic.[/QUOTE]
Funny, you just posted a text, out of topic, in this very post, that ridicules our position, and you expect we will not answer? I am ok with a spinoff as interesting questions are raised, but if you want your post to stay on track, do not feed the flame…
I am absolutely fine with your response as you were named. But if anyone else wants go and take it any further it will get too disruptive. My remark was not meant for you as it is obvious that you wanted to give your thoughts.
On topic of the American TB, I will say what I chant on the Irish Breeding FB groups. Gem Twist has a clone in Europe that is used. One of the reasons the sport bred TB died out is because people don’t ride papers. Wasn’t important enough to get them papered. The ole take my word for it. That doesn’t fly anywhere else. Now I’m not suggesting everybody would be riding sport TB’s, I’m saying they could have made a bigger contribution to sport breeding worldwide if they kept breeding forward. Why are the warmbloods so good? Not because this of the TB or the cart horse but because the top books kept breeding forward. Last News was an American import to Ireland. If this line had been properly papered, and expanded, there’s only one place a foreign book would come to add blood. Because the pedigree would say adds blood and high levels of competition. Then of course those lines would have been sold back in the form of a ready made ready to win hunter or jumper.
I compare this to the Irish crying about the days of yesteryear when Irish SJ’s dominated. Well they didn’t move forward or bother with recording pedigrees either. The TB’s of old and the Irish horses of old wouldn’t be competitive, most likely, in today’s arenas. But guess what neither would the other books but they kept evolving with sport by breeding forward.
Terri
Are all of the Thoroughbreds behind these horses known for jumping talent? Or only a few?
MHS Going Global
http://www.horsetelex.nl//horses/pedigree/732092
Blue Angel
http://www.horsetelex.nl//horses/pedigree/715555
Laudanum
http://www.horsetelex.nl//horses/pedigree/93
Well briefly Laudanum is the grandsire of Singular La Silla, tail stallion line. And Quickly De Kriesker has him as a damsire.
GG has TB way back but yes Marwood was used for sport horse breeding.
Not recognising the damisre of Blue Angle has having significance.
Terri
But will note, Luidam (sire of Blue Angel) breeds jumpers. Lot of young horses classes here are one by Luidams. Not sure how much he was used while competing but he stands in Ireland. So I’m going to have to say, she is good because of Luidam.
Terri
Astec is behind Criminal Law: http://www.horsetelex.nl/horses/progeny/239849
And Alcide is behind this horse (for what it is worth): http://www.horsetelex.nl/horses/pedigree/357764
[QUOTE=Elles;8891391]
Are all of the Thoroughbreds behind these horses known for jumping talent? Or only a few?
MHS Going Global
http://www.horsetelex.nl//horses/pedigree/732092
Blue Angel
http://www.horsetelex.nl//horses/pedigree/715555
Laudanum
http://www.horsetelex.nl//horses/pedigree/93[/QUOTE]
I think it depends what we mean by jumping talent. To be good at jumping involves many different aspects, strenght, form, bascule, reactiveness, carefulness, heart… Take for example Laudanum. He is undeniably one of the best TB stallion for the production of jumping horses. He himself has shown in GP internationally and even competed at puissance. But he was used mainly by french breeders to add blood, carefulness, heart and a godd temperament. However, to produce the complete package, he was known to require mares with power. In conclusion, if by jumping talent you mean power, Laudanum may not be the best solution. Nonetheless, hes was exceptionnal in providing all those other qualities that are important in a jumping horse, so I think it is undeniable that he was a good stallion to produce talented jumpers.
[QUOTE=EventerAJ;8887524]
Just want to say thank you, Gumtree, for your posts here. Always enjoy reading them and you bring a huge depth of knowledge and experience to the discussion.[/QUOTE]
Thank you, very kind and most appreciated.
The why I see it regardless of what discipline,type a breeder is going for the fundamentals are the same.
I thought most people knew it was a combination of the blood.
Terri
http://www.horses.nl/fokkerij/hk-sf-topscore-zoon-urbain-dhelby/
Dam line:
http://www.horsetelex.nl/horses/progeny/24030
Lilly Agnes / Polly Agnes / Miss Agnes / Agnes line
I Love You (out of Elyria) was the sire of the American dressage horse and SF stallion Edelweiss de Bonce, who is interesting for eventing because the sire is majority blood and the dam is an AA. He made it to GP in dressage himself.
I’m wondering if anyone has used Edelweiss for eventing and if the results were as nice as they look to be on paper.
Laudanum goes back to Ballynash, a son of Nasrullah/Nearco and he has this line x 2. There is your TB contribution to the jump, “heart,” and stamina.
Nasrullah sire of Nordlys, sire of Olympic Gold in The Ambassador, and dam sire of Cruising.
Laudanum crosses very well with Alme lineages also and there are many examples of international level jumpers with this known jumper nick.
Our Flexible offspring are line bred to Nasrullah xx and Big Game xx (dam sire of Flexible’s dam sire Safari xx). In this year’s Flexible colt, we also have Galoubet A (Alme) back in the pedigree as well as Voltaire (Furioso xx), Ramiro (Ramzes), Marco Polo, and Farn.
Furioso and Ramiro are also jumper nicks with Alme lines producing international level jumpers.
Marco Polo lineage gave us the legendary Milton and Farn is the sire of jumper progenitor Nimmerdor.
The Flexible colt also has Buckpasser xx and Nasrullah xx 3X in his pedigree.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;8901718]
I Love You (out of Elyria) was the sire of the American dressage horse and SF stallion Edelweiss de Bonce, who is interesting for eventing because the sire is majority blood and the dam is an AA. He made it to GP in dressage himself.
I’m wondering if anyone has used Edelweiss for eventing and if the results were as nice as they look to be on paper.[/QUOTE]
I Love You also shares the same sire as Galoubet A.
There are quite a few Edelweiss de Bonce offspring in eventing. IME BTA movers with really nice canters.
Avalon has a few on their website, IIRC.
[QUOTE=gumtree;8884834]
Seems to me if I was going to breed Sport Horses I would certainly attend the National Hunt sales looking for fillies and mares.[/QUOTE]
I pay much more attention to racing breeding than sport horse breeding but I’ve always wondered if sport horse breeders take advantage of the National Hunt sales. Seems like it’d be a good way to get really nice broodmares for a program from families that are proven to have at least some athleticism.
[QUOTE=beowulf;8901787]
I Love You also shares the same sire as Galoubet A.
There are quite a few Edelweiss de Bonce offspring in eventing. IME BTA movers with really nice canters.
Avalon has a few on their website, IIRC.[/QUOTE]
I LOVE Edelweiss De Bonce. Too bad he passed away. I’m super curious as to what his babies look like and are doing… I find his dam line very interesting too.
Moonshine, a very fast TB at le Mondial du Lion, is not to be found in the studbook ranking.
http://www.worldsporttiming.com/live/read/index.php?config=110
http://www.worldsporttiming.com/live/read/index.php?config=112
http://www.pedigreequery.com/moonshine18
[QUOTE=Elles;8902484]
Moonshine, a very fast TB at le Mondial du Lion, is not to be found in the studbook ranking.
http://www.worldsporttiming.com/live/read/index.php?config=110
http://www.worldsporttiming.com/live/read/index.php?config=112
http://www.pedigreequery.com/moonshine18[/QUOTE]
He’s also The 1790 Alexander Mare in tail female.
I think that if I were going to focus on sport horse breeding TB mares with National Hunt pedigrees, I’d look first for ones with The Alexander Mare of 1790 in tail female.
Best jumper during the Trakehner free jumping cup:
http://www.horsetelex.nl//horses/pedigree/1573817
https://m.facebook.com/Trakehners-International-494352363944326/
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