Hi Juniorjumpermom…
it’s your fellow barn boarder…just my opinion… don’t give the trainer anything…I’m with her alot and I never hear her saying anything about trying to sell your horse or that she is even still thinking about it… she doesn’t deserve anything or she would’ve had your horse sold by now…she was trying for over a year…you put flyers up at one show and look what happened…just my two cents
I remember the Kagen’s from growing up in Milwaukee with them…Small world and WONDERFUL letter!!!
Aqha Clique
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by barnie:
…people make big money buying under-valued stock and selling it later for a huge profit. Should they then go back to the company and say, “let me give you some money back because that stock of yours I bought was really worth more than I paid for it.” <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No one thinks a perosn should not be able to buy and sell at a profit. Just as in the stock market, you have taken on the risks as well as the rewards.
My stockbroker recommends undervalued stocks because I will be a happy customer when the stock goes up and I will take his recommendations again next time and he will make anouther commission. My stockbroker does not represent an undervalued stock for twice the price and pocket the difference.
Just because you’re not paranoid, doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you.
The website is NOT me! I have my hands full just managing you people. 
If you run into problems, broken links, outdated pages, etc. on the main COTH site, please email Melinda at webmaster@chronofhorse.com. 
Buyer and owner had an agreement but I don’t think the trainer had anything to do with the sale. It was a fluke that the prospective buyer ever talked to them…
If I’m selling a dog for a client and I talk to someone interested in the dog [that found and is interested in the dog with no contact from me] I’d need to do more then talk to them on the phone briefly to earn a dime.
But I do my best to be professional.
"The cowards won’t start and the weak will die along the trail."
– Kit Carson
Lord please save me from those trying to save me!
Or for those of us who get TCOTH at one address but don’t manage to see the magazine for weeks…
ok, let me let my wine soaked brain get this all down in some succinct way…
Firstly, let me say Bravo to the gal who wrote the letter.
Secondly, to jumpermom, I say “screw the trainer”…she doesn’t deserve anything, and I loved the thought of another poster who gave her great ideas on what to say (gushing about how the posters worked so well and such) Great thoughts.
Now, my ramblings. I have never bought a horse where a commision has been involved. In fact when I bought Will, I had him trailered to our barn, and my “trainer” rode him and gave me her opinion. Did she get a cut? No. Did she get the horse in full training for 3 months, and then get lesson fees out of me for the next several years? Yes, we both gained ultimately, and were happy.
Thank you Bernie for your insights on the professional side of this. Now, to your hypothetical of the $3K horse in the field. Well, my husband did that recently with a Toyota landcruiser-bought it, cleaned it up ,did some maintenance, sold it for $4K more.
Just last week at our shop, we were told of a new Crosby Prix de Nations saddle for $240. I snapped it up, we have a $600 pricetag on it. Did I tell the shop where they had consigned it that the price was too low? No…I don’t have a problem with that…and I think several posters brought up the unethical sides to that if you were specifically looking for a horse for one person. That I agreed with, you would have to divulge that the horse was $3k in my opinion there.
I guess what saddens me is the taking advantage part of people who are looking for someone trustworthy and knowledgable…there’s the rub. For example, we know some lovely people thru our son’s school. They had nice pony, outgrown by daughter. Bear in mind, parents know squat about horses, but have beacoup bucks in the bank. Trainer says she will sell the horse-turns out the horse world is smaller than they think-they hear back that the price was padded. Then, feeling confident, trainer tries to mess with them again and sell off her supposedly lame horse for a song. The story was that then the person who bought it for a song would then sell him for a pretty penny…had her vet say he was never going to be sound…yet had lined up a schill to be an intermediary and then sell him at top dollar. It got nixed before it came to fruition, but the sad thing here is that these people are hurt, and it just plain stinks.
I was really appalled, and now I have a lack of respect for her–and just feel sorry for these folks who looked to her to guide them. I think it’s a crap shoot to find a gem who will truly guide the neophyte parents through the rigors of horse ownership. It’s a hard enough business for those of us who know horses, and have, what I consider to be a lot of knowledge of my own…but these parents just in it for their kids… 
…it’s like some trainers just wring their hands and see dollar signs exuding from their ears!
Well, I hope this wasn’t too rambly and hard to understand…it’s just such a huge thing…and it always frustrates me to see advantage taken of people.
My husband works in the real estate field, as did I , and while I believe the onus is on the buyer to beware and to educate themselves, sometimes it’s too much, and professionals DO need to be consulted…they just need to be held accountable. I have had no qualms about suing my realtor and my contractor when they cheated and misrepresented things to us. If enough people are willing to step forward and be loud about injustices, perhaps some of these unscrupulous folks will lose their shingles, which maybe weren’t worth the paper that they were written on…
oh, and Applesauce, thank you so much for typing out the whole letter. I am late to this party because when I came this am to read the thread, the link wasn’t there, and it frustrated me to no end to not know what everyone was talking about!
The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
Looks like we sold our c/a jumper (she’s vetting this pm). We got a call shorty after the girl tried her from an old trainer.
About a year ago she asked if we wanted to post a pic on a sales web site. We said, sure. We gave her a pic, she scanned it and that’s it. Well, thru the grapevine she hears we have found a buyer (by ourselves… we put flyers up at a show and some people saw her and liked her…). She calls to remind us that last year she put this horse on the web ( it is not her site…and not one that costs for the listing).Now, the people have never heard of trainer, came with flyer in hand at the show. We set up time to try horse etc.
Do YOU think we owe this trainer anything?
I’m adding my two cents late (The West Coast has to wait until THURSDAY for theirs!)
I thought it was a GREAT letter. So true.
>AQHA Clique<>Do It Yourself Clique<>Children’s Jumper Clique<
If you take the Lebanon exit off the turnpike it is about 5 miles north on route 72. You must join us for the next show (of course that won’t be til May 
) We did have a great time and next time we will be more organized. We need to make those VA people jealous…no more Mosebys gossip, we will start our own Tavern Stand or Bluebird Inn outings!!!
There are 3 A rated shows…Blue Rock, St. Christohers, Fall Show and the C rated PJA (but the jumper money is better here than at many shows that are A rated and the Exhibitors party couldn’t get any tackier or more fun !
HMMMMMMM, maybe they should hire me for their PR person. 
After reading all 7 pages of this thread at once, I can’t tell y’all how good I feel. I am a young professional who just left a farm I worked for for almost four years for many of these same reasons. I could not expalin to these people that as a trainer, my clients are paying me for my guidance. It is my job to get them the best horse for their money. I have even forfeited commisions in order to get my customer the horse I just knew was the right one. I may be the professional now, but I was the client for a long time and was not ripped off by my trainer. As a result, I had really fruitful junior and amateur years. How could I rip off someone else?
I guess what I am trying to say is I am glad others feel this way. I renews my faith inthis industry.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Applesauce:
Hang on folks. I’m going to type the sucker out and post it. 
“Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice. Pull down your pants and slide on the ice.” quote from the tv series MAS*H<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
thanks so much Applesauce
I know the BB is about to go down for re-doing, and I am not sure what that will mean, but this whole thread is too important to get lost in the shuffle.
What the end result of this thread really needs to be is an organization (USA Eq? the HJA?) which undertakes to license professionals from an ethical standpoint. Sort of like a Better Business Bureau for the sport.
I got ripped off bigtime in a horse purchase by an old trainer many, many decades ago. Left the trainer, but never did anything about it, because I was a small fish, he was a big fish and I did not know the law. Then I went to law school and discovered the law, but by then he was no longer training…
Now when a trainer asks me what I want for a horse, I say “90% of the sales price.” At times, the silence has been deadly after I have said that. 
What we, as individual sellers, need to get started as a ground swell movement, is some sort of organization that will create ethical standards for horse professionals. Those professionals who do not choose to join this organization will be easy for newcomers to identify and protect themselves against. Those trainers who do the AAA circuit who do not choose to join, well, their customers must be able to afford to lose ten’s of thousands of $$ on horses… and they are informed enough to make the choice of whom to train with.
Right now it is the Ammies who have to do something to become ammies at USA Eq. Why not make it so that the Professionals have to do something to become professionals? By having them sign a statement with an ethical component added to it. When a professional joined, they would be signing a statement saying that they agree to conduct business in a certain manner and agree to arbitration in the event a dispute arises between a client and themselves.
That way, any new client, when first signing up with such a professional, would have to be given notice of his rights under this law. (And any “pro” not signing up with this portion of the USA Eq. professional status, would have to somehow tell a client that they are NOT protected by the USA Eq.)
As an attorney, I have to represent my clients with honesty and integrity. Why can’t horse trainers be obligated to live up to certain standards also?
Fellow non-professionals — this will take a groundswell movement. The USA Eq. is made of professionals who will not be overly excited to pick up the ball and run with such an idea. But all we are asking them to do is to conduct themselves as honest, ethical citizens. Which, when they go to buy a car or a house, they are.
Tricky Dick Nixon…a joke, get it?
I am not that sensitive!!
What I was saying about the horse for 3K, was what is my responsibility as you see it to the current owner? I did not say I was horse hunting for a particular person. That makes it different!
As I read these posts, steam is actually flowing out of my ears on to my computer screen, excuse me while I run for a squeegee!
What other industry has absolutely no licensing invoved besides the Magic Kingdom of horsedom?
For God’s sake my hairdresser needed x number of hours of training, she needed to pass testing and had to pay big bucks for her license…as well as constant re-training and annual update of her license.
Yet, we freely give THOUSANDS of dollars to unlicensed,untrained, unethical trainers who can do what they wish secure in the knowledge that they will rarely be held accountable for their actions.And why are they not held accountable?
Because we are afraid.
Enough already.
Thanks Anne FS and jr, the voices of reason!
I think dealing with the Ahsa is not the way to go with these issues.These issues must be dealt with on a personal level. Each of us in barns are slapped in the face on a regular basis. Be it ridiculous pricing, poor care or unreasonable demands. All of us need to step up to the plate as individuals and say “No more.”
As I stated in the letter,there must be in everyone’s area at least one decent trainer who has the respect of their customers. Find them!!
Don’t be afraid of your trainers! We have the power to put unscrupulous people out of business and to help build the businesses of those who wish to treat us with the respect we deserve.
deleted deleted because Infopoop double posted me and then wouldn’t let me delete it!
Like many on the bb I really appreciate your letter to COTH. My husband works on commission so I begrudge no one a profit.
I too think that too many pros see owners as money pits. I have no issue if a trainer BUYS an animal and resells at a big profit. Someone early on this thread posed that type of question. If a pro spots a horse that he sees as a diamond in the rough and buys him for $3k, takes him home and touches him up, I don’t care i he sells him for $10k. He has made the investment and taken a risk in buying the animal. On the other hand if he is representing some one who is looking for a “reasonable” horse he’s obligated as a fiduciary to get the horse as cheap as poosible for his client. In this case client pays $3k + commission based on that price. If the pro takes some risk the reward is justified.
I am happy that the owner/trainer at the barn where I ride prefers to be paid for his time and expenses and is diligent and really earns his pay. I’m not sure what his rule is on in barn sales or barn commissions. I don’t think its right for a pro who doesn’t sell your horse to expect you to pay him when you sell. As long as you’ve given him ample warning that the horse was leaving you shouldn’t owe him a dime.
Varsity Team, I hope that your letter gets alot of people thinking and acting. There must be a way to end the stigma attatched to speaking up.
Founder of the mighty Thoroughbred Clique!
Resident racing historian
Kryswyn, You’ve met me! I’ve worked with 4 barns in 4 years and I only ‘trashed’ the one that would leave my horse out “because he didn’t want to come in and eat” for three days, not even check/notice gash on hip and shoe 3/4 off and have me find him in stall without water in his stall with no one to be around for hours 3 times.
Horse trainers and barns are just like dog trainers and kennels we’re in the service industry. Part of being in the service industry is putting up with bad clients.
Nobody ever promised they were going to be nice to me. To provide the best
service you can at all times you have to deal with difficult clients professionally , something sorely lacking in the dog/horse industry.
"The cowards won’t start and the weak will die along the trail."
– Kit Carson
Lord please save me from those trying to save me!
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use