If it doesn’t get posted, could someone send me a copy?
Thanks!
Found the view, but too expensive
is what I call the cult of the trainer.
I offer as a prime example, the last barn that I boarded. The owner was very charismatic and absolutely adored by the bevy of kids that took lessons from her. She had no problems manipulating the parents into purchasing horses that she “found” for them. Now, we’re not talking tens of thousands of dollars here but we are discussing horses that were unsuitable
One example that springs to mind immediately was an OTTTB that she persuaded a mom to buy for her 13-year-old daughter. We’re only talking $5000.00 here, but hells fire, this horse would have been the wrong choice if he had been a giveaway. The daughter’s ambition was to show hunters and regretfully, the horse wasn’t ever going to fit the bill. After vast sums had been spent trying to determine why this horse hated jumping (vet bills, tons of additional training, the chiropractic) the trainer�s solution was “oh well. sell him cheap and buy my next more expensive candidate.” Regretfully, the young girl in question had become thoroughly discouraged by this time and gave up on riding entirely. She really loved this horse and it broke her heart.
I saw this happen again and again. The parents weren’t stupid and in many cases, they made an attempt to educate themselves. However, they also trusted this woman to do the very best for their children. Does this make them bad people?
That was an excellent letter, very well written.
I have experienced the type of trainer that views every client as a mark. I quit riding for a time ( I was taking lessons on school horses at the trainer’s barn) because I got tired of dealing with someone who continued to present overpriced , misrepresentesd horses for me to buy as a first horse.
We met our current trainer while leasing a horse for our daughter that was boarded at her barn. She is someone I have complete trust in. After we let her know we were interested in buying a horse a former student of hers, who was giving up horses for cars, contacted our trainer about selling her horse. Our trainer thought he might work for our daughter and we tried him. We ended up buying him. Our trainer said I did not owe her a commision when I raised the question, because she hadn’t done anything. I told her that we only found the horse because of her and that in my view she earned the commission, which I payed gladly.
However, on another occaision, I found a horse on my own for myself and asked the trainer I was then thinking of working with to evaluate him. I paid her for her time in looking at the horse, but did not pay a commission because I had found the horse on my own.
The commission thing seems to be a real sticking point for a lot of people, but there is DEFINATELY another side to it. Just like a house, if you want to sell your horse “by owner” great, but if you want my contacts, knowledge, input and continuing help after the sale/purchase you will have to pay me for it. So many pleasure riders and horse people(some right here on this board)fail to remember that your leisure is my livelyhood. This is a service industry and as interested as most people are in getting their money’s worth, I’m as interested in getting paid for what I do! I hear people complain all the time “you made money for a phone call?!” Yes, I may have…just like if you call your lawyer for advice. Someone told me a long time ago that what you can’t or won’t do for yourself, you pay someone else to do. And I know our industry,because it is not strictly regulated,has it’s crooks. However, it also has a lot of cheap skates that want it all for free. Soooo while I thought the letter in the COTH was well written, I definately did not agree with the whole content. And I do wish everyone would think a minute before always jumping on the bandwagon to bash all the professional horsemen and women that work very hard so you can have fun…that is what it’s all supposed to be about, right! 
I want to applaud the author of that article!!!
Too many parents and kids won;t say a word, because this trainer knows that judge, or that barn owner knows that show organizer.
If more people stand up for themselves, the less this type of thing will go on!!!
happy horsin!
Dear Sir:
While I found Denny Emerson’s column “horse Owners Deserve More Recognition” (July 12 p. 36) fascinating, I believe that he may be trying to frost the cake before it’s out of the oven.
Wer’e experiencing a lot of problems in the hunter world right now. Bad judging, politics, drugging, corruption-you know, business as usual. But, for some annoying reason, people are talking about the stuff that no one is supposed to talk about until they’re safely back in their motel rooms.
It’s OK, because I’m a nobody. My opinion doesn’t matter. I’m just a dumb Midwestern mother who’s been involved with the horse idustry for more than 40 years. I’m at the bottom of the food chain, I’m an owner. The mark. That’s the way you trainers think of us, isn’t it?
I’m the tacky woman who works her butt off at a job I don’t love in order to provide my daughter with something she does-herhorse. I’m one of the hundreds of women on whom you’ve built your business over the years, and guess what? I’m unhappy, and I’m not the only one.
It’s time that we as owners held tgrainers accountable. It’s time to expect them to adhere to the commonly held business practices, to help them remember that we are the customersk, and while the customer isn’t always right, we are still the customers.
Some helpful hints:
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Don’t sell me a lame horse that was drugged when I got it and suggest to me that vetting isn’t really necessary because, “Well, I know the trainer at the barn he’s come from, and after all, they all have a little somthing wrong with them.”
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Don’t treat my child with disdain if she’s not tall enough, thin enough, smart enough, or just plain doesn’t ride that well. Maybe she’s not the winner, but she helped pay for that BMW you are drivin.
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When I return from my next horse show, I expect an itemized bill for the expenses which you’re charging my. And don’t charge me for seomthing called “special shampoo” or “special service” or any other “special” ridiculous charge that you need to cover your vacation to Hawaii next month.
4)Don’t charge me a 15 percent commission on a horse that I found.
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Don’t suggest that in roder to sell my animal it must be sent to another barn, and when it returns lame dont smile and say, “Oh well, it’s your horse, an dthat’s the cost of doing business”.
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Don’t find my daughter a horse she can’t ride so you can charge me “training fees”. I wouldn’t buy her a car she can’t drive, so why should you recommend a horse she can’t ride?
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Sel lmy horse for the exact amount I’m asking and provide me with the name of thit’s future owner, so if I later find out that you sold my $30,000 pony for $40,000 and kept the difference, I can sue you.
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Take care of my animal. Feed it, turn it out, and call the vet when necessary. Perferably a vet of my choice, since I pay the bill.
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When I leave your barn for whatever reason, do not make it your mission in life to make our life miserable at the next horse show we both attend. This kind of juvenile behavior is unbeccoming of an adult. Maybe your time would be better spent reflecting on why you lost a good customer.
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Realize that being a trainer/barn owner is difficult. It’s a service position, and if you aren’t prepared to off that service in an honest, ethical and good-spirited manner, remember that the carnival is always looking for a few good people.
Since so many trainers are so fond of calling themselves “professionals”, I suggest they start conducting themselves in a manner that reflects that title. I would suggest to every owner that starting today, you hold your trainers and barn managers accountable for their businesses. Stop complainging behind their backs, stop paying outrageous bill that you think are unfair, protect your kids, and educate yourselves.
Insist that your relationship be built on mutual respect, and if it is not, leave. There are decent trainers out there-give your bisiness to them. In order to grow and get better as an industry, it takes a grassroots effort. It should start today with us, the owners, because without us, as Mr. Emerson noted, there would be no industry.
Lesley Kagen
phew…I have typers cramp
“Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice. Pull down your pants and slide on the ice.” quote from the tv series MAS*H
My current hunter was once a school horse who was deemed crazy 'cause she was green. My trainer saw potential in her and asked the barn owner now much she was knowing I was interested. His answer - “what kind of car does she drive so I know how much to ask”.
Can you believe the nerve of this ***hole!! He wanted $5,000 'cause he found out I drove a newer Durango. I said go to hell and walked away.
3 weeks later the horse was offered to me for $2,000. I bought her and couldn’t be happier.
Ride and let ride…
Did the buyer see the horse at any time on the website and the flyer just gave her the incentive to try the horse then the trainer should get a part commission. If the buyer had no knowledge of the website no commission.
If the trainer is a nice person and you feel bad make it an early christmas present not a commission.
Just wanted to welcome you to the board! I’m sure you will find it imformative. There have been plenty of times that I’ve experienced a broad spectrum of emotions from the posts that are written. Everything from tears of joy to sadness plus plenty of roars of laughter.
By the way, I’m the one that started the thread about your letter and I personally wanted to say it was VERY well written and thank you. 
“Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice. Pull down your pants and slide on the ice.” quote from the tv series MAS*H
I think that’s what beans was saying sleepy - that Ms. Kagan is intelligent.
I agree with tle - I think it is up to people to educate themselves. There are plenty of resources available including our wonderful bulletin board.
What a wonderful summation … which, I guess since you’re a lawyer, is kinda second nature.
Proud member of the “Huh. I thought I’d fixed that” phase of baby green hunter ownership.
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> One is that if you are new to horses or hope to learn about horses, there really is no central place for that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> When we were “new to horses”, my father found out that one of his colleagues at work was “life long horsewoman”. And my mother (a teacher) discovered that one of her students’ mother was a “life long horsewoman”. These two (non professional) women cheerfully steered us through the course of becoming horse owners.
And I have done the same when some of MY work colleagues have horse mad daughters, and the parent fnally gives in to the demand to “get a horse”.
I hadn’t come back to this thread for a while, but it seems to be coming back to what CT said…short of parenting, there really is no other profession which allows people to run around so unfettered and uneducated.
Why not make the professionals actually DO something for their shingles? But then again, who would over see something like this…god knows usaq and uset can’t seem to get their act together…sigh
The gene pool could use a little chlorine.
I am also a little surprised to see people talking about standard 15% commissions. I’ve been around this business 30 years, and have bought and sold probably close to 20 horses/ponies…Not once have I every paid more than 10%, and often less than that.
It’s not just the money issues. It’s the treatment across the board.The money issues are just the concrete evidence of what contempt these people feel for their customers. And you know, as long as we take it, who can blame them.
Since when is it ethical to charge people for knowledge you have gained thru experience? If you actually handle a horse, or go with a customer to evaluate the horse, or even ride the horse yourself, yes, you deserve a fee for your time. But its OK to charge someone for just referrals? That is nuts.
My hubby owns a service related business, and spends time every week referring people to others in the business who can better fit their needs. And will answer many questions (i.e. pick his brains for his experience) to get people started on the right track. Yes, he is a nice guy, but we have also learned that this will pay dividends down the road. You may have to wait a couple of years for it, but that guy you helped will refer you to others via word of mouth. Or get you himself to do a job.
I would think that reputation would be very important to every professional, no matter what the business.
I hope the ethical trainers and dealers out there put pressure on for some type of certification like they do in Europe. Yep, its going to cost you, but business related training and testing is tax deductible.
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Thanks!
In the immortal words of John Lennon:
“I know I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one.”
Hate to get all 60’s and 70’s here but ummmm
“Power to the People”
Lawndart,
It is ethical to charge referral fees – all sorts of businesses do. A simple example is the hiring referral fee that Personnel firms get. It is their business, customers know when they sign up that the price for the firms ability to find and screen candidates is a fee. The key in the horse business is that the arrangements for referral fees need to be up front, and known to all in the deal. Finding the right horse is hard, and I’ve seen numerous agents play an invaluable service hooking a trainer up with another trainer who has the right horse, at the right price, at the right time.
My Chronicle hasn’t come yet. Does someone want to post the letter?
