Anyone purpose-breeding the old style, heavier WBs?

[ljshorses]

[QUOTE=Fairview Horse Center;4595568]
She is lovely. Do you know what % Gelderlander she is?[/QUOTE]

Thank you so much,

                         Pion 
        Democraat
                         Wilena 

Kroniek

                        Oldenburg
         First Lady  
                         Wieteke 

32.81% Gelderlander blood

I love that Gelder blood and would love to have a full Gelder mare. I have a Ferro mare out of Edorette (29.75% Gelder) infoal now to Ijselmeer Ikepono (He is full Gelder or very close I believe). I plan to breed my Hemmingway mare whose 31% Gelder to him this spring. She is currently infoal to Idocus. Love Idocus but very difficult to work with SO and never even got my signed breeding contract back and she has yet to send in her 2009 stallion report. A bit of a stressful situation and I don’t want to repeat, breeding is stressful enough under the best of circumstances, too bad though because I love Idocus who has a great deal of that older style blood. I think his son Olivier is also a nice example of the old style that really can perform, win and also produce winners. Also heard SO easy to work with as is Ijselmeer’s. I hope the old style doesn’t go extinct, there are many who cherish it. Anyone know of more Gelder types standing in U.S.?

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

[QUOTE=ljshorses;4595857]
I think his son Olivier is also a nice example of the old style that really can perform, win and also produce winners. [/QUOTE]

I believe Olivier’s mom is full Gelderlander. She was an incredible girl! :yes:

Ijselmeer Ikepono’s sire is Taxateur. I have 2 mares by Taxateur’s sire, Obelisk. One of them is the dam of Nevada, who is almost 50% Gelderlander. He is lighter in type due to the TB blood, but has the brain, gaits, and jump from the Gelders blood. I think that is why his babies have excelled in dressage, eventing, and hunter/jumpers.

[Renae]

[QUOTE=ljshorses;4595857]
Anyone know of more Gelder types standing in U.S.?[/QUOTE]

Have you looked at the KWPN Harness Horse stallions that we have in the U.S.? We have the following that were either approved in Holland or licensed here (licensed here has the same registration possibilities with Harness book stallions as they do not have Harness Horse stallion testing in North America):
Gelviro (75% Gelders) Renovo x Iregon
Harmonie (87.5% Gelders) Wilhelmus x Indiaan
Horal (87.5% Gelders) Balmoral x Tango
Jonker (75% Gelders) Renovo x Wouter
Moneymaker (50% Gelders) Farao x Excellent Van Herpen
Opgenoort (81.25% Gelders) Jochem x Renovo
Orlando (87.5% Gelders) Unitas x Renovo
Ulandro (87.5% Gelders) Manno x Balmoral
Uromast (93.75% Gelders) Manno x Indiaan
Whiskei (78.125% Gelders) Patijn x Manno
Zion-JC (68.75% Gelders) Patijn x Modern
These are the ones I can remember off the top of my head that have at least 50% Gelders blood. Not all of them are activated with the KWPN-NA as many do not breed enough KWPN mares a year to justify it, but most of their owners are willing to work with mares owners to get done what needs to be done if you want to go the KWPN route. A KWPN Riding Horse mare bred to a Harness Horse stallion will typically result in a foal that will go in the Riding Horse book.

[Fantastic]

Pandorra is 68% Gelderlander

The FEI stallion ,Pandorra, is 68% gelderlander and approved ISR/OLD-NA (2005 inspection site champion. Out of 10 horses, he was the only one approved).

He is by Ferrolan (Ferro (50%) x Ramiro Z mare (25%), and out of a 100% full gelderlander mare by Satelliet x Folio. He is ridden and owned by Marina Parris-Woodhead of Pleasant Hill, MO. http://www.hiddenoakshorses.com/index.html
http://www.hiddenoakshorses.com/PortView/views/view_frames.asp
http://www.hiddenoakshorses.com/PortView/views/view_frames.asp

I believe he is now competing at I-2; aiming at GP.

[Fantastic]

Renae, thank you for posting those stallions and percentage of their Gelderlander blood.

[Fantastic]

Ijsselmeer Ikepono is 81%

Since Ijsselmeer Ikepono is 81% Gelderlander, I believe if a bred to a GP mare, the foal would most likely get GP papers. Here is info and pictures:

http://www.liolomasdutchwarmbloods.com/Ijsselmeer%20Ikepono.htm

http://kwpn-na.org/stallions/details.php?unid=190&catid=31

[ljshorses]

Cool information! Love that type and interesting about the Harness stallions. I should look into that some more. I didn’t realize there would be a possibility of Riding Horse papers if you bred to one. Neat thread, very informative.

[CDE_Driver]

I have bred my Flemmingh x Rubenstein mare to Zion JC. The foal will have Riding Type papers.

My dear friend has mare that is 87% Gelderlander blood that I would love to breed to Alexandro P. The mare has Harness Horse papers.

[Anton_van_Lijssel]

[QUOTE=Fantastic;4596283]
The FEI stallion ,Pandorra, is 68% gelderlander and approved ISR/OLD-NA (2005 inspection site champion. Out of 10 horses, he was the only one approved).

He is by Ferrolan (Ferro (50%) x Ramiro Z mare (25%), and out of a 100% full gelderlander mare by Satelliet x Folio. He is ridden and owned by Marina Parris-Woodhead of Pleasant Hill, MO. http://www.hiddenoakshorses.com/index.html
http://www.hiddenoakshorses.com/PortView/views/view_frames.asp
http://www.hiddenoakshorses.com/PortView/views/view_frames.asp

I believe he is now competing at I-2; aiming at GP.[/QUOTE]

Video of a young 100% Gelderlander stallion - descending from the mare line of Pandorra - during the studbook inspection for 3-years old stallions two weeks ago www.youtube.com/watch?v=91FxZn4bKmQ . The mare Janie in the pedigree of his dam Vanouk is the granddam of Pandorra too www.gelderlanderhorse.nl/pedigree/nederlands/horse.php?N=00008499 and www.gelderlanderhorse.nl/pedigree/nederlands/horse.php?N=00008795

[okggo]

How are you all figuring out the % Gelderlander? For example, Pygmalion - how would one find that out?

[Oakstable]

Anton,
What a wonderful young stallion.

[Anton_van_Lijssel]

[QUOTE=okggo;4598028]
How are you all figuring out the % Gelderlander? For example, Pygmalion - how would one find that out?[/QUOTE]

Gelderlander bloodlines are the bloodlines of the versatile horses that were selected on the Dutch farms for agricultural work, for riding and for driving. This are the bloodlines that were registered in the Studbook Gelderlander type (Sgldt) in the time before KWPN is founded in 1970. Pygmalion has only original blood of these horses and is a 100% Gelderlander. He was by KWPN approved as a harness horse stallion.
More information you can see in the article www.gelderlanderhorse.nl/english/revolution.htm that I wrote in 2006 for the Dutch horse magazine De Hoefslag and translated in English myself, so the translation is not perfect.
KWPN abolished the Gelderlander blood 11 years ago. The Gelderlander Horse Association is founded for restoration of the requirement of Gelderlander blood for a Gelderlander horse and has the support of the Dutch Parliament for it. This is going on now.

[RyTimMick]

Horal - Dutch Harness

Hello Anton,

Would you be able to tell me about this stallion Horal. He is located around the corner from me and I am curious. I don’t breed for these horses but the owners are friends of mine and he is quite impressive. Here is their website.

http://www.windholmefarm.com/horses/horal.php

Tim

[Fancy_That]

[QUOTE=Anton van Lijssel;4598235]
Gelderlander bloodlines are the bloodlines of the versatile horses that were selected on the Dutch farms for agricultural work, for riding and for driving. This are the bloodlines that were registered in the Studbook Gelderlander type (Sgldt) in the time before KWPN is founded in 1970. Pygmalion has only original blood of these horses and is a 100% Gelderlander. He was by KWPN approved as a harness horse stallion.
More information you can see in the article www.gelderlanderhorse.nl/english/revolution.htm that I wrote in 2006 for the Dutch horse magazine De Hoefslag and translated in English myself, so the translation is not perfect.
KWPN abolished the Gelderlander blood 11 years ago. The Gelderlander Horse Association is founded for restoration of the requirement of Gelderlander blood for a Gelderlander horse and has the support of the Dutch Parliament for it. This is going on now.[/QUOTE]

Anton - what a fascinating article! I loved reading about the history of the Dutch horses. Is there now a seperate Groningen Registry now, too? Or are they also “gone/going away” Thank goodness for the Gelderlander breeders who have kept this breed/type of horse alive. I love this quote:

The main characteristic of the Gelderlander is the good character and the aptitude for use by non-professional riders and drivers in recreation.

Glad to hear the Dutch Parliament is in support of restoring the Gelderlander horse/blood.

[Anton_van_Lijssel]

[QUOTE=Oakstable;4598118]
Anton,
What a wonderful young stallion.[/QUOTE]

He is not selected by KWPN for the next selection.
A son of Jazz is selected as Gelderlander stallion for the next inspection. But this is KWPN politics, the Gelderlander has to correspond more with the lighter KWPN ridinghorses in type and in bloodlines.

[TWF]

@Fairview Horse Center;4587737

The modern Warmbloods lack the elasticity (rubber ball movement) I love.

In the early 80’s, the new Breeding director for the Hanoverians was very “marketing” oriented, and changed the goals to make a prettier horse to export. The movement went downhill soon after, along with the loss of the “G-Line”.
I love the older, heavier type Warmblood, but I am not really talking about heavy. It is the MOVEMENT of the older type I don’t want to lose.

I saw the Hanoverian shift in the 80’s and made a decision to go with my instinct & heart… a horse with a desire to please, powerful elastic movement generated from a great engine coupled with a great mind. I stuck to my G-line and loved the results.
My mares were just as important…One of my favorite mares was Gelderlander …of the Oregon line…(thanks for the article and photo Anton!) Hulane delivered my wish list over and over. Her son my G-Line stallion is a SAINT who will take you to new heights every time you ride him. My G-Line mare delivers that on every ride.

That’s what I bred for …old type is an imperfect description. They are not so “old” when they take the top honors in all disciplines. That special “something” may have been lost amid the search for another breed type. Elastic, distinct and enegized… Mine are still in the game. The greatest satisfaction is seeing the next several generations still very distinctly "Grande" and competitive.

[Fantastic]

Sorry, not Anton. If my math is correct, I think Horal might actually be 75% gelderlander? 12.5% Hackney.

It is too bad that Horal was not able to be approved in Holland. He was somehow able to be Licensed in the US at age 13 or so (not sure if this Licensing covers Europe, too?). (Can someone please explain the perameters of being Licensed as opposed to being Approved? Can this horse ever achieve Approval? How does he maintain his Licensing?). However, I don’t believe anyone in Holland would have bred to him because he was not approved, but maybe there are some test breeding results running around out there?

Semen quality prevented him from being approved in Holland (semen numbers?), but he did do well in harness competitions. Someone imported him to the US and then the current owners decided to have him inspected KWPN-NA. Squeaked by with the semen quality. And so he was Licensed. Requests that semen is collected, centrifuged, shipped (even across nation same day air), and used same day on a mare. He does not have many pure dutch offspring on the ground, so it is hard to know what he’d really produce.

[Anton_van_Lijssel]

As KWPN disapproved all Groninger stallions 30 years ago and refused to restore the Groninger bloodlines, the Dutch government allowed an independent studbook for the Groninger horse www.hetgroningerpaard.nl/ .

Horal has 87,5% original Gelderlander blood and 12,5% Hackney blood. He can give children that are Gelderlander because a maximum of 6,25% Hackneyblood is allowed for a Gelderlander horse.

The old bloodlines are selected in very many ways, not only for specialized professional riders or for keurings, so they are very modern for a big number non-professional riders and drivers (and for top-sport too).

[Renae]

North American Foals sired by Harness Horse stallions that are licensed in North America have the same registration options as those sired Approved stallions. If a North American licensed stallion is used in Holland the foals will get Register A papers. Once an approved stallion leaves Holland it can no longer be placed or the watchlist.

[Fantastic]

Videos of Groningers and Gelderlanders

Groninger Horse Videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPZHdMqw9Ps&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86_Gx82H22A&feature=related

2008 Groninger Horse Keuring: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaNkroqzfSM&feature=related

Gelderlander Horse Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YInPibU6KJU&feature=related

Horse with small blaze is the Gelderlander:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlbbF8v4z48&feature=related