Dawn J-L is too modest. Her wonderful FCF Oberon’s Vanity carries a ton of the good old blood, has size and is a lovely type to breed to an Anglo. He is very pretty, great bone and has a wonderful character. He may only be available frozen - you would have to ask Dawn - but check him out!
Most of these horses being suggested so far (including the Al Marah ones) have not proven themselves to be good jumpers (particularly against real competition, not just other arabs). Plenty of decent dressage horses - but h/j? Not really.
As someone who came from a lifetime in Arabs to Warmbloods, there are very, very few Arabians that can hang when it comes to jumping. And too, it’s one of the most heritable traits.
Thank you for the recommendation for Esquire+
First I’d like to thank those for their mention of HG Esquire+. And 2nd, not sure if I will be allowed to post photos within my comment here or not to display a few individuals that represent the statements that follow.
HG Esquire+ is in fact Khemosabi bred and like Khemo has a certain predictability as a sire. Esquire+ has excellent legs and feet and sires the same. Good deep hip with a lovely set neck that he uses well. He also sires individuals that are Professional Quality yet Amatuer Friendly. Due to the consistency Esquire+ displays and in an effort to show just how far we will go to support Esquire+, we offer a 100% Quality Satisfaction Guarantee on all breedings sold via GCA & Sport Horses. Some here on COTH either own a Esquire+ kid or two or have at least met a few.
HG Esquire+ was the 2010 AWS Sire of the Year recipient, was Reserve Champion Stallion Dressage at Lexington, and also has multiple National, Regional and Class ‘A’ Championships. Esquire+ also has sired winners through the National level on the Arabian circuit and also one the Open circuit.
His offspring are flashy and fancy, even tempermented, have willing personalities with good conformation. Typically settles with one collection providing mare is healthy and breeding sound and mare owner is using a vet well versed in reproduction.
Again, we thank those that have recommended Esquire+ and am hopeful that I can share photos of a few of his kids as a Dressage and Jumper mount.
If there is anyone who would like to see many additional photos that are available, please feel free to either email me (gaineyarabian @ aol.com) or find us on Facebook Gainey Cornerstone Arabians & Sport Horses
Denise Gainey
Whichever Arabian stallion you choose, be sure to check his Cerebellar Abiotrophy (CA) status. It’s a genetic disease that Al-Marah Quebec and Al-Marah Good OldBoy are carriers of (among other Arabian horses as well). If you breed to a CA carrier, your foal has a 50% chance of also being a carrier (provided your mare is clear). There is an online database of CA tested horses with all their results posted.
[QUOTE=malinda;6865005]
Whichever Arabian stallion you choose, be sure to check his Cerebellar Abiotrophy (CA) status. It’s a genetic disease that Al-Marah Quebec and Al-Marah Good OldBoy are carriers of (among other Arabian horses as well). If you breed to a CA carrier, your foal has a 50% chance of also being a carrier (provided your mare is clear). There is an online database of CA tested horses with all their results posted.[/QUOTE]
Is this really such a concern when you are breeding Anglos? CA is only a problem if the horse has both recessive genes - if the horse is a carrier, not really an issue. Now, I could see if the resulting foal was a filly, and somewhere down the line you wanted to breed her back to an Arab, yes, you should test. Otherwise, not an issue.
That goes for SCIDS and LFS as well, if you need to worry about recessives in Arabs.
There 's a thread running in this forum about lethal white that also discusses these recessive genes.
It is a concern to some breeders. The ATA recently voted to not allow any CA carriers into their studbooks beginning this year.
If other Anglo-Arab breeders are breeding to CA carrier Arabians, they are perpetuating the genetic disease in their breed. Then even Anglos will need to be tested in order to eliminate the possibility of getting an affected foal.
Wow, isn’t he a hunk! Wouldn’t that stud fee have the WB stallion owners green with envy?
[QUOTE=Dazednconfused;6864962]
Most of these horses being suggested so far (including the Al Marah ones) have not proven themselves to be good jumpers (particularly against real competition, not just other arabs). Plenty of decent dressage horses - but h/j? Not really.
As someone who came from a lifetime in Arabs to Warmbloods, there are very, very few Arabians that can hang when it comes to jumping. And too, it’s one of the most heritable traits.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. But this one can jump, and move. He’s spectacular. You just have to really want the foal with the $5000 stud fee! 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfA6M3NvgX4
What an absolutely adorable horse.
[QUOTE=malinda;6865019]
It is a concern to some breeders. The ATA recently voted to not allow any CA carriers into their studbooks beginning this year.
If other Anglo-Arab breeders are breeding to CA carrier Arabians, they are perpetuating the genetic disease in their breed. Then even Anglos will need to be tested in order to eliminate the possibility of getting an affected foal.[/QUOTE]
That is interesting and thanks for sharing the info. Did they do the same for SCID and LFS?
[QUOTE=SueL;6864855]
Dawn J-L is too modest. Her wonderful FCF Oberon’s Vanity carries a ton of the good old blood, has size and is a lovely type to breed to an Anglo. He is very pretty, great bone and has a wonderful character. He may only be available frozen - you would have to ask Dawn - but check him out![/QUOTE]
That’s incredibly kind to say, Sue, and the Oran blood that Obie carries has been proven in Anglo and/or WB crosses in the UK as jumpers and eventers (most notably via Fairlyn Gemini and Red House Condor–also Oran and Raffles lines were behind the hunter pony stallion AM Lord Elope), but Obie is gray (perhaps homozygous; I haven’t tested) which the OP specifically excluded, and he is just learning to jump so is hardly proven over fences. He is available via frozen at an introductory price and is SCID, CA, and LFS clear (also EVA negative and vaccinated). He is an incredibly sweet horse with high rideability, but having come from WBs to Arabians, I am not going to make claims that I can’t back up (at least not yet). 
Here’s his 2012 filly FCF Elfin Felcity (she’s the frozen semen test foal --one dose on one cycle).
I saw this stallion at the Midwest Horse Fair. I don’t know if he has any babies on the ground. The stallion was just an amazing specimen and I believe he was 3rd level at the time. Very nice boy and very interested in the people who walked by his stall. I think on youtube you’ll see video of his liberty demonstration. What was really impressive with this stallion was that he would perform a perfect levade to see what was happening on the other side of his stall. He would hold it for several minutes at a time. Very powerful back and hindquarters.
I totally missed the requirement for no gray and I know Obie is a young stallion who is not proven over the jumps yet, but I really, really like him. I remember walking into DAD - he was showing as my sister and I walked in. Both of us were “What a nice Arab!” and then we realized who he was (I had only seen pictures up until then) He’s super nice! I do like the little bit of jumping footage you have of him. Good quality in the canter and a pretty jump.
All these suggestions are great…So many horses to look at, though I am definitely drawn to the CMK lines. After reading the history, I can see why. The greys I will keep in mind for future use, but for the first one I want to try to go non-grey.
I have a croup question. Croups in Arabs seem to be all over the place. I have seen short and long, flat and sloping and even some that slope up. Some have a very defined angle where the croup ties into the loin, some seem to have a great deal of muscling there so it appears to just be a nice round flow into the loin. I thought I knew what the ideal croup was but now I am looking at all these stallions and then I looked at my five horses and am now thoroughly confused. My 17.2 TB jumper who canters 3’6" fences and can jump the moon has a short almost flat croup with a long distance from hip to point of buttock. My 15.1 draft cross jumper has a typical drafty engine with a long distance from hip to point of buttock. Huge huge stride on this small horse with a very powerful jump, but he has a croup that starts behind the hip that slopes by far the most of all my horses. The mare in question here has what I would consider a long croup, it starts almost over the hip and is sloped what I would consider normal.
What is the ideal croup length, slope, and length from hip to point of buttock for a jumper?
[QUOTE=oldernewbie;6865339]
That is interesting and thanks for sharing the info. Did they do the same for SCID and LFS?[/QUOTE]
Yes, those also. SCID has not been allowed for many years as there has been a test available for a long time. The test for CA is relatively new (<3 years, I think), so the CA and LFS rule is new.
[QUOTE=Perfect Pony;6865211]
Agreed. But this one can jump, and move. He’s spectacular. You just have to really want the foal with the $5000 stud fee!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfA6M3NvgX4
What an absolutely adorable horse.[/QUOTE]
I LOVE this stallion!!! I’ve seen him twice at SHN and he just gets better and better. He’s an honest 15.3 with exceptional legs, bone and he has an ideal structure for jumping. *Oration is a French Arabian that was bred for the sole purpose of Racing. Love him so much I’ve chosen him to breed to my AHS approved mare Caraechstrodinair in hopes of getting a filly to keep. Can’t wait until April! That said… he really is an amazing choice for a TB mare, as he is very much TB type.
[QUOTE=Sporthorse Shop;6865487]
All these suggestions are great…So many horses to look at, though I am definitely drawn to the CMK lines. After reading the history, I can see why. The greys I will keep in mind for future use, but for the first one I want to try to go non-grey.
I have a croup question. Croups in Arabs seem to be all over the place. I have seen short and long, flat and sloping and even some that slope up. Some have a very defined angle where the croup ties into the loin, some seem to have a great deal of muscling there so it appears to just be a nice round flow into the loin. I thought I knew what the ideal croup was but now I am looking at all these stallions and then I looked at my five horses and am now thoroughly confused. My 17.2 TB jumper who canters 3’6" fences and can jump the moon has a short almost flat croup with a long distance from hip to point of buttock. My 15.1 draft cross jumper has a typical drafty engine with a long distance from hip to point of buttock. Huge huge stride on this small horse with a very powerful jump, but he has a croup that starts behind the hip that slopes by far the most of all my horses. The mare in question here has what I would consider a long croup, it starts almost over the hip and is sloped what I would consider normal.
What is the ideal croup length, slope, and length from hip to point of buttock for a jumper?[/QUOTE]
CMK’s are close to my heart as well and make excellent outcrosses for TB & WB mares. In a private conversation with someone very high up the ladder with the Hannover Verband, I showed him a video of the Arabian stallion my AHS approved Arabian mare was currently in foal to and was told to find a good TB mare and breed to him, hope for a filly and bring her to an AHS inspection. He liked the balance, uphill canter and overall substance - the stallion… Magic Aulrab.
I can put you in touch with his owner and get you a screaming deal on his stallion fee - Magic is 20 this year and just hitting his stride in the breeding shed. LOVE LOVE LOVE my MA colt. He loves to jump! As he like to clear his 4 ft. fence and join the cows in the irragated pasture next door - haha
[QUOTE=Perfect Pony;6865211]
Agreed. But this one can jump, and move. He’s spectacular. You just have to really want the foal with the $5000 stud fee!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfA6M3NvgX4
What an absolutely adorable horse.[/QUOTE]
I don’t often post these days, but just had to contribute a “Wow” for this guy! Lovely Arabian Sporthorse Stallion.
Hi! I see that my horse was mentioned as a possible candidate for this mare. While Magic Aulrab is not a Dressage or Jumping horse he is a 100 mile endurance horse so he has shown an aptitude for Sport. He is extremely athletic, not just my word but the word of an inspector with the Hanovarian Verband felt that after watching his video on youtube. If you message me I will tell you this individual’s name and show you the video. Anyway, I don’t want to steal this thread anymore as I know there are many other viable options for this mare. If you have a question for me please message me.
Regards,
Peter
I started a new thread for my croup question.
Oration is a very nice horse and he looked great in the video, I just can’t swing that stud fee at this time. He is one to keep in mind for the future.
At this time with the research and videos I have seen, I am leaning towards the ones with Aurab in their lines.
Also, thanks for the info on the CA and SCID. I was aware of SCID but not the other issues. If the foal turned out nice enough I would want breeding it to be an option, so therefore not a carrier of these genetic diseases.
[QUOTE=Sporthorse Shop;6865487]
All these suggestions are great…So many horses to look at, though I am definitely drawn to the CMK lines. After reading the history, I can see why. The greys I will keep in mind for future use, but for the first one I want to try to go non-grey.
I have a croup question.
What is the ideal croup length, slope, and length from hip to point of buttock for a jumper?[/QUOTE]
I have had a CMKs. Powerhouses. Very trainable. AM Quebec is a dressage horse. The thing about arabs is they can do many things. I lost last summer my double Aulrab Aurab on the sire side. He had the typical look, chestnut long blaze 4 TALL stockings.
If you see a flat croup, pass That is a halter horse body. Flat croups are weak croups, but you know that already. Dressage you need some lift to the front end, perhaps your mare has that. I would not necessarily go for a park bred horse (high knees), those can be a little on the hot side. Neck and croup angles should match. iow no flat croup or low set neck.
I believe Echo Magnifficoo has the highest neck set I have EVER EVER seen on any horse. He does pass on his beauty, and neck set. I have seen him in person several times in WA. He is fine boned, and small, and very very pretty. If you had a heavy heavy mare, drafty, he could lighten it up, but I would be worried to get a flat croup since he is a halter horse. But here he is for reference of what a flat croup looks like, you may have to look for some other photos, also of his offspring. I have seen many of his sons and daughters back in the day. He sure stamps them with his look for sure.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/echo+magnifficoo
I believe Bazy children were working with her in her breeding operation. So the same should be continuing.
AM breeding is my vote - still. They have a PROVEN breeding program.
