The AD son that was in our barn was a GEM to work around and a great ride for his adult ammy mom. He did hunters and dressage plus had the best mind. In fact, the gelding was actually lazy and needed motivation. :lol: Unfortunately owner had to put him down in April when he got sick and foundered. 
Unfortunately Iâve never worked with an Art Deco baby but Iâve worked with very sensitive, alpha horses. My coach suggested that I move the alpha youngster into a field with a more dominant mare. My horse finally accepted that she was not going to be the alpha heard leader and actually started to accept her rider as a leader. People have suggested on this thread that it could be the environment as well as genetics but I donât think anyone is considering the herd dynamics the horse grew up with. You might be a really good trainer and spend lots of time desensitizing them to everything but if they still think its their responsibility to watch out for the both of you they will still be challenging. I guess some horses you canât stop from wanting to be the alpha but its worth a try. I saw a huge difference in my mare and it was just her turnout situation that was changed. Iâve heard overall great things about Art Decoâs offspring, so this thread isnât making me think badly of him.
[QUOTE=Marengo;3293739]
Unfortunately Iâve never worked with an Art Deco baby but Iâve worked with very sensitive, alpha horses. My coach suggested that I move the alpha youngster into a field with a more dominant mare. My horse finally accepted that she was not going to be the alpha heard leader and actually started to accept her rider as a leader. People have suggested on this thread that it could be the environment as well as genetics but I donât think anyone is considering the herd dynamics the horse grew up with. You might be a really good trainer and spend lots of time desensitizing them to everything but if they still think its their responsibility to watch out for the both of you they will still be challenging. I guess some horses you canât stop from wanting to be the alpha but its worth a try. I saw a huge difference in my mare and it was just her turnout situation that was changed. Iâve heard overall great things about Art Decoâs offspring, so this thread isnât making me think badly of him.[/QUOTE]
Good advice!
Unfortunately, in the case of my âSupreme Alphaâ Art Deco mare, I donât think that there is a mare out there that would âout Alphaâ herâthough the breeder did say that when she was young, she backed down to the older bossy broodmares (and only) to them 
She is turned out with a bunch of geldings (we wouldnât chance her in the mare field, and thank goodness for an understanding BM!), and they all defer to her, with great obsequience.
(And of course this doesnât help with the âI MUST be in charge at all times!â rideability issues at home, which are pretty much constant :rolleyes: :sigh:)
I only wish there were a way to put this mare in her proper place in the pecking order at home, since that would no doubt help!
(Sheâs much better away from home, of courseâŠ;))
I am really appreciating all the feedback from other posters; I feel less alone!
[QUOTE=ljshorses;3292788]
Yes, but what about the damâs sire or her damâŠgeez, genetics is a crapshoot everytime, does anyone realize how much goes into making a baby. And why is it a few âbadâ apples ruin the whole bunch. My Decos have all been EASY. Not spooky and beautiful. I am breeding again to him next year. Ask pintofoal how many mares a year are bred to this great old guy. What do you think the percentage of âbadâ apples is? I bet it is much lower than you think. You donât always hear about the âgoodâ ones, but boy do you hear about the âbadâ ones. I know of an Art Deco mare owned by a veterinarian near me that foxhunts regularly and has an excellent temperament. He, based on his experience with her over many years, has bred to Art Deco many times and has never been disappointed. They donât end up in the show ring though so many trainers arenât seeing them I guess. They end up on the hunt field as solid, unflappable and BRAVE mounts. People, look at the WHOLE picture and donât listen to people that have had a BAD experience, check it out for yourself when you are considering a horse. One âbadâ apple in a huge bunch of âgoodâ ones shouldnât mar the whole bunch. Letâs also not forget what early and improper training can do to a sensitive animal. Sensitive horses are fantastic when raised properly (itâs what I prefer to ride) but when raised improperly or trained incorrectly many bad things can result.[/QUOTE]
Iâm sorry youâre so frustrated. I donât think people are slamming AD - he is a great stallion as has been proven over and over again.
One desirable characteristic for a stallion is prepotency,right? Why is it upsetting to discuss whether or not AD might pass on some quirks? It is only opinion and personal experience of a few people out of many, many foals but how do you research stallions without asking question of people who are willing to share their opinion. Maybe some feel a public board isnât the place to do it but why not?
AD has more than proven himself. It doesnât mean he is perfect, after all what stallion is absolutely perfect? None of them.
[QUOTE=Fairview Horse Center;3292663]
About 50% of my inquiries for Nevada are from people with hotter or b*tchy mares that the owner want to calm down. He does do an excellent job, but there will always be horses that get momâs attitude. Luckily, if a horse has talent too, they will usually find their way into a better riderâs barn that can deal with the sensitivity/hotness.
Several years ago, I was contacted by a breeder in New England that had a Nevada filly. She was wanting to sell her because the filly was way too much for her to deal with. She told me she had a lovely sweet, easy mare. Fast forward, she donated the Nevada filly to a university, who sold her to someone, and she ended up as a 5-6 year old boarding in my barn. She is a phenominal athlete, but a moody and dominant mare that will control you if you let her. The college girl that bought her does a super job with her. I called her old owner to tell her that NOW I understand what she was talking about. She told me she really wanted to appoligize to me, because that the previous winter, she had run into her mareâs old owner. She asked about the crazy btch of a mare. She said she would have NEVER let kids any where near that mare as she was dangerous. The Nevada fillyâs breeder said she had let her kids climb all over her, and she was always easy. Maybe a few more years will settle the Nevada filly down, but her owner is hoping not. She is actually a lovely ride, but a "btch on the ground.[/QUOTE]
Ironically I think I know this mare you are posting about only because when she popped up for sale I was interested in her and she was from the NE area. Chestnut with high whites and a belly spot? I remember I was told she needed a lot of work on the ground, so I passed. Absolutely gorgeous horse though!
cigars and cocaine
Oh I hear you, I had a friend who bred their mare. She was not only a quiet trail pony but, was a therapeutic riding horse that safely carried handicapped people who were deaf, dumb and blind⊠As a matter of fact she is literally a saint, she was even anointed by the Pope for her good and saintly deeds.
Well, then came the day that they bred her to the devil horse and what did she produce but, the âdevil seedâ. Not only was the foal evil, but it changed that beloved saint of a mare into a trolip. She and that evil spawn of hers now can be found breaking out of their paddocks, spooking themselves all the way into the city. They have been found there either panhandling or hooking on the corners (wearing a high clubbed hoof). They are over reactive and dangerous, sometimes they even go looking for ammy owners to scare and mug in dark alleys.
Itâs a sad, sad day when such a fine mare and foal with only the best handling, training and care would be so possessed. The prepotency of this stallion is likened to the same powers that Manson and Bush had on their cults followers.
I too was offered a free breeding, no doubt from someone who had wised up to that fact that the horse is the devil himself. I thought about it long and hard, there was some sort of evil allure to it, like Eve and the apple. But I prayed to God and asked him to show me the light. Well God never answered me, but my trainer told me (and they might as well be God) that the offspring were all the devil reincarnated. She had trained a great grand son of the devil stallion and you know what, that colt had a 666 pinto marking on him!. He wasnât registered, so there was no real proof that he was related to the devil stallion, but it is said that when they dna typed him to get papers that everyone in the lab died from mysterious circumstances.
I did have another friend who ended up with a devil spawn, through circumstances, but luckily she is a pro and can handle itâs evilness. If it went to anyone else it would surely ruin them for life. She will always keep it because she has some strange love for it, almost like Rosemary and her baby!
After hearing such things from soooo many people I decided it had to be true and didnât bred my mare either. Now I know there are a few of you on here singing the praises of your offspring, but itâs a fluke and the only reason you all have good ones is youâre in with the devil and just trying to spread the evil seed throughout the equine population. I am just awaiting for the day when the The 5 Horsemen of the Apocalypse ride up on those pinto devil horses, then I can say I told you so, I heard it from a friend who heard it from her trainer (who might as well be god you know) so it is true! Believe itâŠ
edited to add: All color breeders are crazy and evil.
Oh I hear you, I had a friend who bred their mare. She was not only a quiet trail pony but was a therapeutic riding horse that safely carried handicapped people who were deaf, dumb and blind⊠As a matter of fact she is literally a saint, she was even anointed by the Pope for her good and saintly deeds.
Well, then came the day that they bred her to the devil horse and what did she produce but, the âdevil seedâ. Not only was the foal evil, but it changed that beloved saint of a mare into a trolip. She and that evil spawn of hers now can be found breaking out of their paddocks, spooking themselves all the way into the city. They have been found there either panhandling or hooking on the corners. They are over reactive and dangerous, sometimes they even go looking for ammy owners to scare and mug in dark alleys.
Itâs a sad, sad day when such a fine mare and foal with only the best handling, training and care would be so possessed. The prepotency of this stallion is likened to the same powers that Manson and others had on their cults followers.
I too was offered a free breeding, no doubt from someone who had wised up to that fact that the horse is the devil himself. I thought about it long and hard, there was some sort of evil allure to it, like Eve and the apple. But I prayed to God and asked him to show me the light. Well God never answered me, but my trainer told me (and they might as well be God) that the offspring were all the devil reincarnated. She had trained a great grand son of the devil stallion and you know what that colt had a 666 pinto marking on him!. He wasnât registered, so there was no real proof that he was related to the devil stallion, but it is said that when they dna typed him to get papers that everyone in the lab died from mysterious circumstances.
I did have another friend who ended up with a devil spawn, through circumstances, but luckily she is a pro and can handle itâs evilness. If it went to anyone else it would surely ruin them for life. She will always keep it because she has some strange love for it, almost like Rosemary and her baby!
After hearing such things from soooo many people I decided it had to be true and didnât bred my mare either. Now I know there are a few of you on here singing the praises of your offspring, but itâs a fluke and the only reason you all have good ones is your in with the devil and just trying to spread the evil seed throughout the equine population. I am just awaiting the day when the The 5 Horsemen of the Apocalypse ride up on those pinto devil horses, then I can say I told you so, I heard it from a friend who heard it from her trainer (who might as well be god you know) so it is true!
I am really saddened by all this negative talk about Art Deco offspring! I think I am probably one person who does have over 14yrs of experience breeding to Art Deco so I feel I do have first hand knowledge of these horses temperaments.
I have bred tbâs and a warmblood mares with great success. I have had many premium foals and site champions. Winners on the line in dressage and hunters at the biggest shows in the country . I have started all the training on these horses myself and have always been pleased with their great temperaments.I also have raised a stallion by Art Deco and competeing him at 4th level. He has the best feet and is still barefoot and has the best work ethic and never says no!
Everywhere I have taken any of my horses every FEI trainer or clinition has always been very impressed by all these horses,not just one. I always get compliments on my horses great temperaments.I have broke and trained many Art Deco offspring over these 14yrs and have personally handled Art Deco as well for breeding and shows and he is a wonderful horse! I think because he is different people either love him or hate him but he is an amazing sire and makes great improvements on all the offspring I have seen. I do think people donât want to own up to the fact that they arenât as talented as a rider/trainer as they think they are ,so blame the sire which is rediculous. Everyday you handle a horse you are training or untraining them . There are many factors that go into training horses and the sire cannot be blamed for all of this. People should buy horses that are more suitable for them. If your looking for a bombproof plug then maybe you should buy a QH not a horse that is bred to be a competiton horse, they need some spark for the upper levels. I also have many happy AA that have bought these horses from me and are doing well in dressage and jumping .I am proud to own Art Deco offspring and will always be happy to prove the naysayers wrong.
[QUOTE=sketcher;3294154]
Iâm sorry youâre so frustrated. I donât think people are slamming AD - he is a great stallion as has been proven over and over again.
One desirable characteristic for a stallion is prepotency,right? Why is it upsetting to discuss whether or not AD might pass on some quirks? It is only opinion and personal experience of a few people out of many, many foals but how do you research stallions without asking question of people who are willing to share their opinion. Maybe some feel a public board isnât the place to do it but why not?
AD has more than proven himself. It doesnât mean he is perfect, after all what stallion is absolutely perfect? None of them.[/QUOTE]
Frustrated? Just confused by short sightedness. Prepotency is one thing, but come onâŠsaying all Art Decos have temperament issues? All I am saying is I am sure there are bad ones out there, but there are also good ones. And to bash a stallion for the publicized bad ones is wrong when there are many of us that have great experiences breeding and owning Art Deco offspring. I think what Art Deco passes on is a sensitivity (and not all get that) but sensitivity can be a very good thing. Sensitivity handled correctly is what champions are made of. That is why many Art Decos are winning at many disciplines. They are sensitive to their riderâs needs and when with the right rider and with the right upbringing etc⊠etc⊠great things can happen. Am I saying there isnât bad ones out there, noâŠI am sure there is. Any stallion bred to as many mares as he has been is bound to have a bad one once in awhile. Heck, if you look at human families with 4 or more children, I bet often you find a bad one in the bunch and they are FULL siblings. If you have 100âs of foals all with different mothers, you are bound to have a bad one once in awhile. Itâs just the odds.
That would be her! :yes: The owner at first just figured it was a âwarmblood thingâ as she had never had one before. Thought MY definition of easy was different than hers.
I acutally had someone come looking for a Nevada baby because they boarded in the same barn. They said she was not really bad, just inexperienced owner.
My main problem was with her snarkiness when I tried to put on her boots, or change a blanket in the stall. Once I figured out put a halter on her, or even with just a rope around her neck, she became good as gold. I think it was just a âcontrolâ space issue thing.
Her new owner is a great match for her and looking to event.
you described my girl. 
[QUOTE=Dr. Doolittle;3291401]
I have a mare by Art Deco who is very similar to the horses described by the earlier posters (beautiful, athletic, sweet and lovingâon the groundâa talented, powerful jumper, brave, sensible in stressful conditions, and an awesome competitorâŠHOWEVER, she is spooky, hyper-vigilant and hyper-reactive, and has to make almost every ride a challenge (at HOME! only, where she is âSupreme Alphaâ over all the other horsesânot at competitions, where she defers to me, and is at worst, fussy and distractibleâbut performs well consistentlyâŠthough I have to carefully manage her warmups, since she freaks out when other horses get too close to Her Majesty :rolleyes:)
She will be absolutely lovely on the ground: relaxed, calm, submissive, sensitive (in a good way), sweet, and eager to please. Her ground work (which Iâve done a lot of) is wonderful; a dream! However, the instant I throw a leg over, sheâs all of a sudden in âWHAT THE HELL IS THAT???â mode, spooking at the mounting block, jump standard, barrel, human, car, leaf, cat, other horse, etc., etc., that not only has she seen 100+ times, but that she had ignored completely not 10 seconds previously. :sigh: Spooking in a very melodramatic fashion, mini-bolting, pop rearing when corrected, etcâŠLuckily I have quick reflexes, and am able to correct her, stop her, bend her, displace her hindquarters, and put her in a âhead down time outâ, which I have developed as a response to her constant testing and âfaux spookingâ behaviorâŠ(It seems to calm her down and re-focus her, as well as serving as a correction; as another poster mentioned, I am constantly working on getting her to âtap into her thinking brainâ, and override her reactive brain. Over the years, she has progressed slowly in terms of âseeming to get the pictureâ, and now knows to shape up when I verbally correct her, though I continually have to âremindâ her that sheâs not in chargeâŠitâs quite emotionally exhausting, at times!)
In competitions, though she can be a bit of a trial in dressage (tense, holds her back, want to look around), she is a dream to jump (and I have taken a LOT of time; sheâs ready to go Prelim in eventing in a couple months, with LOTS of preparationâand has talent out the wazoo), and I never doubt her; sheâs a fantastic partnerâŠ
And sheâs my heartâŠ:sigh: A total love, licks you like a dog, is SO expressiveâŠ
Plus, she has fantastic feet, and has NEVER been shod! Sheâs 10, and if I can run her Prelim without shoes (being careful with the venues, and scratching if itâs too slick), I donât see a reason to shoe her, since she has excellent (4WD-worthy) tractionâin all conditions.
Needless to say, I have mixed feelings, but relate to most or all the previous posts; this mare has a home for life with me (I am a lower-level pro, and readily admit that she is SO not an ammy ride! :eek: Sheâs lucky I have her, because otherwise she would have scared someoneâbadlyâand would be in a broodmare band, instead of fulfilling her potential ;))
ETA: she has a very strong will, but luckily, so do IâŠ:winkgrin:
(And I donât know about the dam, who was a TBâŠbut in terms of the influence of early training, when I got the mare at 5, she had just had a couple of months of real training U/S (and hadnât been shown or jumped or exposed to new stimuli), so I did the vast majority of training and exposure, introduced her to ground exercises and TTEAM stuff, walked her over terrain in hand, started her over fences, and REALLY took my timeâŠwhich I believe in doing in any case, regardless of the horse! :yes:)[/QUOTE]
This is my girl. Although, I think mine is a bit more brave. Mine has a freak attack while mounting her. She had one bad exp when my girl friend mounted her, she stepped on the mounting block and then bucked like a broncâsince she freaks while mountingâso, we have not rode her till we can get that gone. Funny 60 good mountsâone bad one and she remembers the bad one. And it wasnât even that badâshe stepped on the block!! But, mounting a horse is the most dangerous time she freaks as your throwing your leg over. SIGHâŠ
I have ridden two, worked with three. The two I rode came to me having problems under saddle, and I was the guinea pig that was always willing to jump on and go (what happened to those fearless days?). My opinion of the two I rode, they were smart. They both had ammy riders and frankly the horses out thought them. I took them out and challenged them a bit and they seemed to enjoy that, but I would not call those two beginner friendly b/c they had a brain and they most certainly used it. If the owners gave them an inch, they would take it.
The third was just the meanest b**** of all time out in the field. She would attack and brutally kick any horse that came up to say hi, and sadly my mare was one of the ones that ended up cornered and kicked to smitherines. After several horses needing vet care, they put her in a field solo but next to a gelding. After about three days I went out there to get the gelding and he had a huge chunk of flesh hanging from his neck. She had ripped a chunk off his neck from across the fence. Nice. AnywayâŠI donât know this horses background at all nor do I know her damline, but she probably ranks up there with one of the most rank horses Iâve ever met. My personal guess is it evolved from the way she was brought up and their turnout situation (or lack thereof), but I can only speculate.
Iâve heard things from quite a few people who own them, including vets/farriers that work on them, and think the concensus is they are lovely and magnificant beings, that need somebody with at least an iota of horse sense to train or they will adopt the alpha role quite easily.
And I know these threads have come up and everytime somebody says something negative the wet noodles go flying, but this has been my experience and should be taken as that alone (as in, when you look at the broader picture, my experience may very well be the rarity).
Having handled a lovely stallion by Art Deco in a show situation a few years back, and also had the chance to handle several of his grand get by this stallion, I was impressed by how calm, focused and non plussed this line is.
I was a stranger to these horses and a friend asked for a little help at a HUGE indoor show- I had to quickly groom and tack the stud (Kodachrome or Kody) and bring him to the main ring for a ribbon presentation, which meant handwalking him in a plain halter through a hitching ring full of 6 horse hitches, past the warm up area, 2 busy trade show and stable barns and to the collecting ring for the owner. He was far calmer than any of my horses would have been in the same situation- it was literally a walk in the park. He was interested in being friends with his handler, not fighting.
Later I had a chance to go out in a herd situation with several of his grand get and they were all calm, focused, interested in people, easy to catch, etc.
Not to mention flashy, beautiful and athleticâŠ
If that is what Art Deco passes on to his get and grandget, then Iâd not hesitate to have one of those in my barn any day.
However, I am not barn blind. The horses I was looking at were handled by someone who has lived with horses from the womb and is a handler and trainer I respect. I think about 30% of temperment comes from the sire, about 30% from the mare. The rest is in how they are treated from day one. If people are having trouble with a particular sire, consider the mares and the early starts those foals get. Sensitive and talented is easily ruined by neglect or poor handling. And how many mares do you know that were bred because they were just too b*tchy to ride?
[QUOTE=Auventera Two;3292497]
She said the mare could spook so big and literally over nothing - or over something sheâs seen a hundred times already. Very unpredictable.
I had a breeding opportunity and passed it up aftering thinking long and hard. There is definitely something with these AD horses where the person upstairs just checks out and you realize there ainât nobody home in that head. It was really frustrating with that mare. Iâve heard this same thing many times before and I finally got to experience it for myself and realized people really werenât kidding. Unfortunately.[/QUOTE]
Wait a minute ⊠whereâd you see my AD mare!!! :lol:
Mine was gorgeous. Very sweet on the ground. Just far, far more hot and spooky than anyone wanted to ride. She didnât have the best of feet, but since I bred her, I knew the shelly feet came from the mare. The rest of it? Not so much.
I donât doubt that there are some ADâs out there doing well. But as another poster said, as breeders, you have to hear both sides. I know some people who heard it all and bred to him; others passed. As long as you have the information, you can make the decision thatâs best for you and your program.
ETA: I do find it ironic that stallion owners get defensive when something about their boy is brought up (and I can understand that) but then turn around and blame the mare owners. Huh. So who took the money for breeding to those mares that are now being dissed?
Iâm a mare owner. I bred repeatedly to AD and one of his sons. Three mares, five times. Two warmbloods (a Trakehner and an Oldenburg), one a stakes-placed TB placed in two WB main mare books. Not one of them lived up to their siblings by other stallions and each of them was hot and spooky. Strange, none of our other foals out of the same mares were. Such is the breeding shed crapshoot.
And the beat goes onâŠ
Iâve been reading the posts on this thread to my DH, who is also amazed at how âfamiliarâ this all sounds. (And he points out how many hours of extra training Iâve had to put in over the yearsâsimply to address these issues, and consistently and constantly correct the gratuitous âDrama Queenâ behaviorâwhich she never gives up! :rolleyes:âŠitâs been enormously trying and exasperating, and definitely not for the faint of heart! :sigh: Many people would have been intimidated by this mareâs âat home anticsâ, and would have given upâŠFortunately for meâAND for her!âI am very determined, and donât scare easily ;))
I like the sensitivity (and feel that itâs a positive trait), but I have ridden many other sensitive horses over the decades; some of this behavior is way beyond mere sensitivityâŠ
These horses are not for everyone, and everyone is not for these horsesâbottom line!
Oh boy, do I agree with this. I also agree with the poster that says if youâre looking for a bombproof plug, maybe you should get a QH. As I see it, the owners and trainers who had these âproblemâ horses might be as responsible for what they have become as the mare and the stallion. Not all types of horses are able to thrive in the hands of rank beginners and many horses will become fearful and spooky after experiencing rough or inconsistent treatment. And foals and young horses do need responsible and experienced people helping them to mature into confident and well-mannered adults. Some foals hit the ground confident and spook free, some need a lot more help from their owners to overcome their insecurities. Part of being a breeder is putting the time into the foals you produce to make them solid citizens. Another part is selling them to a home that is suitable for that foalâyou donât sell a sensitive, upper level prospect to a beginner rider that has no idea how to raise it and no assistance from a qualified trainer.
I have a Art Deco mare that is a DREAM. If I could clone HER, genes AND personality, I would fill my barn with her. But when she came to me, while she was very sweet, she WAS nervous. She was so painfully afraid of being hit that you couldnât raise your hand anywhere near her without her cowering away. It took awhile of kind treatment to convince her that she had nothing to be afraid of. Her sweetness and fundamental love of people overcame her fear in a kind environment, and now she is a different horse. She is still very sweet, but she is now relaxed and confident. Last weekend, I had people come to see her foal. Four complete strangers trooped into her stall, played with her relaxed and friendly baby, loved on her, and generally disrupted her day, and she didnât twitch an ear. She happily mugged for photos and gave kisses and generally acted like a horse who had never been nervous in her life. Meanwhile, this mare produces spectacular, premium foals with sweet temperaments, but upper level potential. Would they fare well in the hands of inexperienced beginners or negligent or aggressive owners? Probably not. Nor would most foals. But so far my biggest complaint about my Art Deco mare is I hate to sell her foals. Each one is the horse I always dreamed of owning.
I think the stallion has just as much to do with the foalâs disposition as the mare. My old stallion IBA Gamblin Man passed on his disposition to every one of his foals. In fact, many of the outside mares he bred were a little âcrazyâ (per the MOâs) and they needed a stallion that would throw quiet; and that he did, no matter what he was bred to. He has well over 100 foals on the ground and I havenât heard of one bad apple, and believe me, if there is a problem, the stallion owner is the FIRST person contacted. I literally can not count on two hands the number of young (2-3yo) stock that were owned and trained by children that I know of personally. Of course I purchased the stallion as a yearling that had never been handled when I was 15 years old. I did ALL of his training myself; from halter breaking, to riding, to jumping, to trail riding. He currently stands in PA and is used regularly in a beginner lesson program, even during breeding season.
We also bred to outside stallions (Warmbloods). Our goal is to produce amateur friendly horses that can win the hack and over fences. For three years now, weâve bred to Silvio because he throws his disposition, no matter the mare. It also helps that he throws his movement too. I hate to say it, but IBA Gamblin Man and Silvio both throw idiot-proof (amateur friendly) horses. They have the kind-of brain where they can go to someone that has never raised a foal and not only survive, but thrive.
Donât give me this line that it is the mareâs fault that a particular stallion has a reputation for throwing more professional-type horses. I just gave two examples of stallions that can be bred to fire-crackers and still produce quiet horses that can take a joke. I do not know AD personally or any of his offspring. I just feel very passionately about the hereditary of dispositions in horses.
How exactly am I âdissingâ the mare owners?! If I or other posters state otherwise and we have different experiences with our offspring then we are âwet noodlesâ and âdissingâ you. The fact of the matter is that the mares, environment, owner/handler and training DO play a huge roll in breeding and the end results. So if I say that this should be take into consideration and is never mentioned when discussing the stallion, how am I âdissingâ you/mare owners? â a bit of a personal attack donât you think? I just had this nice topic/attack about my horses on the manure pile, I didnât post because it is the type of board where if you defend yourself/your horse then the attacks just gets worse and itâs not worth it, but here I didnât think that would happen. I thought this was a more user friendly board, where everyone -where both those with negative and positive could say their piece. Quite frankly I am all for open discussions but it is a TWO WAY street and if I bring up what is good then I am âdissingâ you? I posted 4 positive feed backs about offspring from breeders that I have just received in the past few weeks, I posted two noted offspring who in the past year have won top accolades, so how is that âdissingâ anyone?!
There are plenty of people here also happy with their offspring, but since they are and you are not they are again âdissingâ you? Ahhh yes the beat does go on doesnât it.
What do you want me to do? Agree with your experiences when that hasnât been mine or of many of my breeders? Say oh yes Iâve been breeding Art Deco for over a decade and he has produced nothing but crap, give me a breakâof course I am going to get defensive. This is not only my livelihood it is something that I LOVE and truly have been satisfied/happy with the results of my offspring. Again the horse has HUNDREDS of very successful offspring out there, with proâs, amateurs and everything in between out of super mares to average mares. He has more then proven himself and if I say that and I am âdissingâ you then so be it.
My best advice is if your horse/offspring (wether by my stallion or another or whatever) isnât for you and all you can do is complain about it then sell it, it would probably be happier and so would you.
People ask me all the time why Iâm not posting on the forums so much any more, it is for exactly this reason. I am so tired of seeing threads like this. I am not just referring to me or my horses but in general. Iâm done here, if anyone would like to contact me privately they are more then welcome, I am more then happy to help with whatever info they might need.
Liz, please donât let the kooks get you down. You have a WONDERFUL stallion whoâs proven himself over and over and over and over and overâŠwell you get the idea.
We bought a lovely AD filly (out of an Oldenburg mare) two years ago. Sheâs been an absolute gem and we adore her.
Threads like this tend to blow my mind too. Most of the descriptions Iâm reading about these âdifficultâ offspring could be applied to just about EVERY baby Iâve ever owned. TB/WB/QH⊠You name it. They can ALL be difficult at times. But, Iâm sorry, the first place I place blame is â NOT â the sireâŠsheesh, people⊠It could NEVER be that we are pushing it too hard, or giving it mixed signals, or itâs having a growth spurt and doesnât feel well⊠NahâŠ
You bred yourself an athlete, and now youâre bummed out cuz it has a brain and thinks too!!! Deal! Be a better trainer or find someone who is!!! That sensitivity that youâre all bemoaning about is what makes a great show horse!!
Ok, rant overâŠ
Seb 
I am confused and frustrated, as well. I was under the assumption that this public forum was intended to provide SUGGESTIONS AND SOLUTIONS based on experiences of others. If you want to complain, do it by e-mail or telephone. To say that no one is âslammingâ Deco is a ridiculous statement. That is the obvious intention of many. Just because you add a or a:winkgrin: or a :eek: doesnât mean that your intent is softened.
I thought that the thread should be based on solutions, like Fairview had mentioned Magnesium.
I am sure that someone has a technique that they can share for getting a lead rope attached to a halter . . . why not ask? And telling a three paragraph story about how your offspring spooks at a ladybug or sunflower and then passes gas and then blinks twice is going overboard. My suggestion is to search for solutions and if you cant find one, send the horse to reputable person to be sold.
Also . . . my dog was kicked by my gelding last night. Do you think Donnerhall has the prepotency for kicking dogs?
Very frustrating . . . poor Liz.
