Barisone assessment

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

Fair enough CH. Glad we could have a decent discussion today.

Sorry if I a came off as hostile in terms of calling your thought process on that one issue “BS.” It would have been more cordial if I had just said that I saw it through a very different lens.

I did not object to the term BS at all!

I appreciated that you thought through my points, I agreed completely on the one you called BS on, and moved my thinking somewhat on others.

[Sdel]

@Angela_Freda

Had she testified with the same result, would the K Klan be going after her too?
That’s not something I’d want to get involved in either, honestly.

But she was the corroborating witness of the claims that MB and MHG were intending to kill LK so they could have her horses. Surely that was to be a serious witness for motive for the prosecution. Her sudden retractions make the story kind of suspect.

[Seeker1]

People are afraid of revealng themselves due to blowback. I am an old woman. I am not riding…i am retired…any of the people mention could be posting rigt and left. I am the only one revealing myself. So that makes them good and me bad?

[Warmblood1]

@Seeker1

She did not know as mb and mhg were talking about her and not to her. No one ever told her/us that he was borderline insane/onbefore she came along. However a reliable source did apologize to me and lk for not telling us. This person apologized profusely and felt horrible since she felt she herself was lucky to get away from him unscathed /alive. He was millimeters from the edge of the precipice for years

She knew exactly how they felt because she had illegal recordings all over the farm and was listening to their conversations.

[Angela_Freda]

@Warmblood1

She knew exactly how they felt because she had illegal recordings all over the farm and was listening to their conversations

Which Seeker should be well aware as she participated in that.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Bolded Italics are all my responses

@CurrentlyHorseless

Actually, we agree on some issues, I think.

Perhaps. I can’t quite figure you out sometimes, so I am cautious.

I think we agree that his behavior, not just on Aug 7 but in the weeks leading up to it, was strongly affected by his delusions. I guess we can’t say he had “intent” to harass her in the same way that we can’t say he had “intent” to murder her, due to the delusions.

I think his mental state was degrading in an accelerating manner in the weeks leading up to the shooting. Meaning, it wasn’t great in mid July 2019… but it was getting progressively worse by the first week of August

I just don’t buy that he was refraining from evicting her out of kindness to protect her future options in the sport. He went to considerable effort to attempt to get her a lifetime ban.

To be crystal clear, I am NOT claiming that he refrained from formal eviction proceedings in July, and refrained from giving her formal notice that he wanted her horses gone, and that he no longer wanted her as a client all because of ‘kindness.’ Nope. I think part of it is the simple reality that she was going to need to have a receiving barn for her horses if she was going to leave. The horse world is small, and it’s likely that IF she had decided in late July to leave MB’s, and go train with a hypothetical Grand Prix Dressage professional named ‘John Doe’ that ‘Mr. Doe’ would have asked LK why she was leaving MB. She could have said that it just wasn’t working out, and it was her choice. If Mr. Doe was a decent pro with a few connections who had been around for a while, it is likely he would have called MB directly as well and asked why LK was leaving. If LK had self selected because of the icy environment in the barn, MB could honestly just tell Mr. Doe that it wasn’t a good fit, and LK had chosen to leave. That’s how this sort of thing sometimes works. The motivation is for everyone to cut ties quickly, cleanly, with the least amount of mess and drama.

As far as the lifetime ban goes, I think others have commented and pointed out that the timing of when the SS complaint was filed doesn’t fit your narrative. Also, I will point out that I think matters changed significantly, and tensions got much higher at the beginning of August, when LK chose to involve MHGs kids in everything. RG did an internet search to try and find where they were staying when they left HH to go to their father’s. Before that (I think), LK posted a photo on social media of one of MHGs children’s bedrooms. Personally, I would go BALLISTIC if someone with whom I had conflict was posting photos of one of my minor children’s bedrooms on social media. And obviously, the came claim at trial was that the ‘final straw’ was the CPS visit on the day of the shooting. MB told Simring he felt the children were directly threatened by the situation. And that contributed to him snapping

You’re right that given that LK was posting about what she had heard on the recordings that that was meant to harass him - I agree.

I don’t think a rational person thinks that it’s a kindness to decline to tell someone it’s time to leave and vow to make them so miserable they will be begging to leave. Most people over the age of 14 know that if a personal relationship breaks down, you try to tell the person you’re quitting the client relationship because it’s just no longer a good match, you need the stalls for other new clients that are clamoring to train with you, whatever. You don’t say “you need to leave because my girlfriend hates your guts and every else does, too.” He would not have needed to put an eviction on her record if he had given her 30 days notice before July 1 and let her vacate. I think he couldn’t use the demand to vacate route because he was not clear in his mind that we wanted her gone as of July 1, didn’t provide notice, and did not want to wait 30 days when he later did want her gone.

I think you are missing something key here. Professionals in the upper level Dressage world all KNOW each other. They all try and maintain good relations, which involves professional courtesy. MB knew that if LK left, she would want to go to another top tier barn or coach. The way it works is that 95% of those people would hear she is planning on leaving MBs program, and wants to come to their barn, and their very first question would be, “Why?” If the truth was that MB had formally ‘fired’ her as a client, or had ‘kicked her out’ as a boarder (we will leave eviction from the farmhouse out of it) well… LK isn’t going to be forthright with a new potential trainer about that. If she is… they probably won’t accept her into their barn or as a client. That’s why the new potential trainer would almost CERTAINLY call MB with a few key questions if they were considering taking LK on. By not actually formally firing her as a client, or formally kicking her out as a boarder… MB was setting himself up with the option of telling the potential receiving trainer, “My program just isn’t a good fit for LK and her horses, and she has decided to leave.” Handling stuff this way maximized the potential for other facilities to take on LK, and it avoided the issue of MB trash talking a former client, or lying to a fellow pro just yo get her out his barn.

So some, but not all, of his “negative” treatment of her may be down to the delusions.

I think a lot of the negative treatment up until mid July actually was probably about making sure she knew they really would prefer she decide to just leave. I don’t consider it harassment or bullying. However… it probably wasn’t particularly nice for LK. But honestly, that’s just the way it often works when things don’t work out at a barn or with a particular trainer. The atmosphere gets chilly, and it’s time to fix it, or leave.

It’s the demonstrated delusional behavior that makes me think that the inconceivable is conceivable - that he hadn’t asked her to leave sooner than Aug 5 or 6.

Let’s just say you are right about this for arguments sake. So what? She had recording devices on that property and had heard multiple conversations involving MB and other people all saying they wanted her and RG GONE well before those dates. She was playing an obnoxious, childish game. And it ended VERY VERY badly.

But there is evidence that he also had something of a bully personality. I’m thinking of the COTH member who posted in about 2015 that she did not recommend him as a trainer because she in her experience he was abusive and dishonest, and he had shipped her horse to Florida without her knowledge and consent because he wanted to campaign the horse himself.

I have no knowledge of this story, but it might be true. Bottom line, if someone is at the top of equestrian sport for long enough, sooner or later a few people have negative stuff to say as well as positive stuff. Just look at Boyd Martin. A ton of people love him. People following this trial all reacted positively to his testimony. But man oh man, go back a few years and read the discussion on these forums about ‘Crackers.’ People had a lot of REALLY awful stuff to say about him back then.

[Warmblood1]

@hut-ho78

So careful he couldn’t sleep at night especially with a payout of $965,000, 3 horses possibly valued in the 6 figures, loss of his spouse’s income and her management ability (he credited publicly with making it possible for him to train and compete).

He was not yet in partnership with MHG and she testified she contributed nothing to his business except riding horses (which is a very good value in itself at her level of expertise) and she had 8-9 horses on-site with no board.

If the term “cash flow problems” is obtainable perhaps “expenses induced insomnia” would be more acceptable.

Not being able to sleep can cause hallucinations after about 3 days and one’s decision making ability is degraded.

His breakdown could have already been well underway just because of not sleeping because of anxiety over expenses due to the divorce.

If you look at the active shooter description in the link, he checks all the boxes. Also, a different point, the police did well. No one died. The paper gives the ideal but then explains 1 or 2 officers may have to act and they need life saving equipment to do so. They did.

This is a terrible tragedy that did not need to happen. I hope they both continue to heal, they recover, and do well moving forward.

Absolutely none of this is fact based. You’re assuming and calling it fact.

[Sdel]

@Seeker1

She did not want to be subjected to this nonsense and i support her 100% as she is a wonderful person. She has posted here in the past and was asked to testify at the trial. She declined and we didn’t push it because enough people have already been damaged in the industry by the people here. Another supporter came forward and may appear on 48 hours. I hope she does…but i wouldnt wish what has happened on this forum to our family on any person much less a friend.

Are you sure? Then it seems odd that she felt compelled to ask a friend to send her message to LK in the first place. One which she assured us all was not received until after the shooting happened.

[Warmblood1]

@hut-ho78

He was buried under stress. Divorce. New relationship with problems. Cash flow worries. Loss of income and business manager (wife). Ice busted pipes and damage to house. Bouts of depression. 8-9 past concussions plus being in his mid-fifties. Without those issues, with his experience and celebrated charm, he should have been able to have dealt with LK, one client, with ease, just doing business. This was a situation that did not have to end the way it did. Tragically.

The part you fail to accept is that LK was not just one client, doing business. She had an agenda to destroy MB and destroy those around him. Only you seem unable to recognize that.

Also, self defense is a constitutional right.

[hut-ho78]

@Warmblood1

@hut-ho78

So careful he couldn’t sleep at night especially with a payout of $965,000, 3 horses possibly valued in the 6 figures, loss of his spouse’s income and her management ability (he credited publicly with making it possible for him to train and compete).

He was not yet in partnership with MHG and she testified she contributed nothing to his business except riding horses (which is a very good value in itself at her level of expertise) and she had 8-9 horses on-site with no board.

If the term “cash flow problems” is obtainable perhaps “expenses induced insomnia” would be more acceptable.

Not being able to sleep can cause hallucinations after about 3 days and one’s decision making ability is degraded.

His breakdown could have already been well underway just because of not sleeping because of anxiety over expenses due to the divorce.

If you look at the active shooter description in the link, he checks all the boxes. Also, a different point, the police did well. No one died. The paper gives the ideal but then explains 1 or 2 officers may have to act and they need life saving equipment to do so. They did.

This is a terrible tragedy that did not need to happen. I hope they both continue to heal, they recover, and do well moving forward.

Absolutely none of this is fact based. You’re assuming and calling it fact.

You are incorrect.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@eggbutt

@CurrentlyHorseless

Isn’t Eggbutt part of the MB side? She has had personal interactions with LK, and is a long time family friend of MHG.

She has hardly been silent.

Nice stretch @CurrentlyHorseless! Yep, I’ve known MHG and her family since the 90’s at least. That doesn’t mean we play bridge, vacation or eat together! I helped sponsor MHG’s participation in the NAYRC - it’s a very expensive endeavor by the way. She worked hard and earned our contributions.

And, yes, as LK herself has stated, we have interacted with each other, although my recollection of the encounter is amazingly different than hers!

I doubt the above makes me an “insider” anymore than it does GirlJoey, Haleybot or others who post here, so no, I’m not silent. To my knowledge there is no one directly connected with this situation who posts here who is “a Barisone supporter”.

I think your attachment to MHG makes you a partisan, if not an insider.

How can you say that “to your knowledge” no one who posts here as a Barisone supporter is directly connected to the situation? You don’t know the identity of the the anonymous Barisone supporters posting here, I assume.

Based on things you have posted, I suspect you are in communication with people “directly connected with the situation”, and pushing the narrative they request.

I think it’s completely phony to say “the MB side” has maintained a dignified silence. The principals are simply refraining from posting under their own names, and instead posting anonymously or via surrogates.

[Warmblood1]

@hut-ho78

Besides physical aging issues-menopause with body parts drying out, possible ER with men, arthritis, hardening of the arteries, polyps, greater risk of cancer, high blood pressure, cholesterol, greater maintaining weight, welcome to cataracts, feeling one is no longer invincible, etc.,

Body parts drying out??
Do my limbs become crispy bacon? Teriyaki jerky?
I become blind at 50??

Seems all my doctors failed to prepare me for death at 50.

[hut-ho78]

@Warmblood1

@hut-ho78

Besides physical aging issues-menopause with body parts drying out, possible ER with men, arthritis, hardening of the arteries, polyps, greater risk of cancer, high blood pressure, cholesterol, greater maintaining weight, welcome to cataracts, feeling one is no longer invincible, etc.,

Body parts drying out??
Do my limbs become crispy bacon? Teriyaki jerky?
I become blind at 50??

Seems all my doctors failed to prepare me for death at 50.

You laugh now. Please enjoy that laughter. Remember it fondly.

[MorganSercu]

When someone is reduced to a puddle by being in the presence of true love, courage, hope or a combination, then the comparison is apt. Particularly when chaos and misery litters their wake as they go through life.

[Angela_Freda]

@Warmblood1

The part you fail to accept is that LK was not just one client, doing business. She had an agenda to destroy MB and destroy those around him. Only you seem unable to recognize that.

There, 24/7 including ignoring barn hours and being rude and loud when doing so.

Eta, these two (3? 4?) Made choices that all if us recognize is “not done” in a respectful client/trainer/BO relationship.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

@Seeker1

Please note that anyone that is referring to our family as the “house os skavis” which I saw but has since disappeared should cease and desist. It is totally inappropriate and a not even thinly veiled harrassment. Here is a description.

How is it harassment?

I just see it as a literary reference. They didn’t call you a name. The comment doesn’t violate any forum rules.

Geez. How do you not see it as insulting and mockery? Good on the mods for deleting it.

[MorganSercu]

Don’t forget being late or blowing off lessons and training entirely. Not an asset to any training program in any discipline or endeavor of any sort.

[roseymare]

Seriously what other reason would one have to secretly record?
You’re trying to “catch” someone doing something that is detrimental to them. Not trying to find material to send into a morning radio show because it is cute and wholesome.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@Seeker1

The sheer number of baseless, cruel and totally false accusations is astounding. I dont care to debunk harmless rumors to satisfy the sick curiosity of people who have been cruel to my family and me. To clarify…i want to debunk damaging rumors that hurt us.

Soooo… you are choosing to neither confirm nor deny that your family has any ties to the movie production industry.

Noted.

Apparently this is because you “don’t care” to debunk “harmless rumors” just to satisfy the “sick curiosity” of people who might be wondering about certain rumors we have heard.

That’s fair enough. Although a little hostile, given that I feel like I have been rather restrained and polite with my line of questions…

I will say though, I don’t fully understand why you would characterize my question about whether or not your family has ever been involved in the movie production industry a matter of “sick curiosity.” Did you know that in 2020 the US Movie Industry was worth an estimated $91.83 billion, and employed an estimated 2.5 million people? It’s a really big and diverse industry, and lots of people have made money from films.

https://www.zippia.com/advice/us-film-industry-statistics/#:~:text=In%202020%2C%20Film%20Entertainment%20revenue,industry%20is%20worth%20%2491.83%20billion.

[Warmblood1]

@Seeker1

Here is the actual clip of MHG describing the cash flow problems and the dollars associated:

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx3huaQmcVVBIpXIrjV4VBvlOL9nv88NJk .

MHG said he had cash flow problems and listed the expenses.

Nope. The words “cash flow problems” were never uttered.