Barisone assessment

[Sdel]

LK and IM made a huge deal about this poster and their testimony come court time on this forum. LK made her claims within the first month or two, I believe, after the shooting. It was certainly not a surprise to this poster that they might have been called as a witness while they were posting their claims. That makes the sudden freak out confusing.

[Angela_Freda]

@Sdel

Possibly….too bad she was allowed to decline to testify. Although, it’s entirely possible that if she had testified she’d have testified to a completely different version of events…

I guess we’ll never know.

Or context or verification might have put a different light on it.

[DownYonder]

@Virginia Horse Mom

I think you are missing something key here. Professionals in the upper level Dressage world all KNOW each other. They all try and maintain good relations, which involves professional courtesy. MB knew that if LK left, she would want to go to another top tier barn or coach. The way it works is that 95% of those people would hear she is planning on leaving MBs program, and wants to come to their barn, and their very first question would be, “Why?” If the truth was that MB had formally ‘fired’ her as a client, or had ‘kicked her out’ as a boarder (we will leave eviction from the farmhouse out of it) well… LK isn’t going to be forthright with a new potential trainer about that. If she is… they probably won’t accept her into their barn or as a client. That’s why the new potential trainer would almost CERTAINLY call MB with a few key questions if they were considering taking LK on. By not actually formally firing her as a client, or formally kicking her out as a boarder… MB was setting himself up with the option of telling the potential receiving trainer, “My program just isn’t a good fit for LK and her horses, and she has decided to leave.” Handling stuff this way maximized the potential for other facilities to take on LK, and it avoided the issue of MB trash talking a former client, or lying to a fellow pro just yo get her out his barn.

Exactly. MB no doubt knew he would be contacted by LK’s prospective new BO or trainer to inquire about her before they took her on. And even if MB only said something like “It wasn’t a good fit,” he would have to live with the knowledge that he had foisted off a troublesome client on another professional. I can easily imagine how conflicted he may have been - "Do I allow her to stay here despite all her shenanigans, or do I GET HER OUT and let some other professional deal with her? And what will that professional think of me when they realize what they are really up against?

It was almost a No Win situation for MB, so I can easily understand any hesitancy on his part to FORCE her to leave, whereas if she had left of her own volition, there would have been less stigma attached to not only him and his business, but also to her (as in, she left because she wanted to leave, not because she was thrown out).

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Thank you. You put this whole dynamic into words much better than I was able to.

[hut-ho78]

@Sdel

LK and IM made a huge deal about this poster and their testimony come court time on this forum. LK made her claims within the first month or two, I believe, after the shooting. It was certainly not a surprise to this poster that they might have been called as a witness while they were posting their claims. That makes the sudden freak out confusing.

There were some nasty posts about her and her horses after she posted that. I don’t think she was comfortable. It is worrisome with the pushback against SafeSport, big money sponsors, and the hostility to anyone with a different viewpoint to The Only Story Allowed.

Horse safety, being silently blackballed at shows, being scheduled for the last class or the first class or the hottest time of the day.

[BatCoach]

@hut-ho78

There were some nasty posts about her and her horses after she posted that. I don’t think she was comfortable. It is worrisome with the pushback against SafeSport, big money sponsors, and the hostility to anyone with a different viewpoint to The Only Story Allowed.

Horse safety, being silently blackballed at shows, being scheduled for the last class or the first class or the hottest time of the day.

Really? please refresh my memory because I do not remember any such posts

[BrendaJane]

the poster though did relay her experience with MB the 4 or 5 years ago it happened.
On the other hand, during the course of a professional life you cross paths with people you can’t work with, whatever the reason.
And that was literally the only one to come up on the radar, back then and now.
So I think her issue was genuine, but not necessarily representative.
Does that make sense?
And while it took COTH all but 5 minutes to confirm her identity, I cannot see where something 4 years prior would be admissible.
At least on L&O those margins are very slim to bring in prior bad acts.
NJ seems to be a different animal.

[Warmblood1]

@hut-ho78

Aging issues in the 50s. Oh and I left our possible prostate problems and possible leakage.

Good LORD, HH. I think you need a new doctor. Or a priest.

[ekat]

@BrendaJane

And while it took COTH all but 5 minutes to confirm her identity, I cannot see where something 4 years prior would be admissible.
At least on L&O those margins are very slim to bring in prior bad acts.
NJ seems to be a different animal.

Where it would make a difference, hypothetically, in this case, is that NGRI defense. MB had the burden of proof to show insanity. If, (and I have no idea anything regarding this poster, so this is purely hypothetical) someone existed in the real world that could testify that MB was showing the same patterns of behaviors long before Aug 2019, the prosecution could make an argument that they should testify as a rebuttal (to the insanity defense only) witness. Whether or not Judge T would have allowed it, who knows.

[Sdel]

@BrendaJane

And while it took COTH all but 5 minutes to confirm her identity, I cannot see where something 4 years prior would be admissible.

She outed herself, full name and age. And she also claimed to have “tried to contact” LK just prior to the shooting. Seems relevant to me.

[Sdel]

@BatCoach

@hut-ho78

There were some nasty posts about her and her horses after she posted that. I don’t think she was comfortable. It is worrisome with the pushback against SafeSport, big money sponsors, and the hostility to anyone with a different viewpoint to The Only Story Allowed.

Horse safety, being silently blackballed at shows, being scheduled for the last class or the first class or the hottest time of the day.

Really? please refresh my memory because I do not remember any such posts

They were some that looked up her show record and claimed her horse wasn’t advanced enough to be chosen by MB to be used in Rio and questioned why someone who claimed to be so afraid/unhappy would have chosen to go back to MB a second time.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@Warmblood1

@hut-ho78

Aging issues in the 50s. Oh and I left our possible prostate problems and possible leakage.

Good LORD, HH. I think you need a new doctor. Or a priest.

HH has now mentioned prostate issues, leakage, ED, and on and on.

What they need is a good urologist.

Or…

It’s a subtle attempt at implying certain things about certain people directly involved in this case. Just another way of taking potshots at them.

[Angela_Freda]

Completely

[erinmeri]

@CurrentlyHorseless

When I first listened to his 911 calls, I was puzzled as to why someone would call 911 to report that a bizarre FB post had been posted the previous night, or that his clients were refusing to sign a document. He called police because they were in the barn after 9:00 to wrap legs.

I now think the calls were designed to harass and intimidate them.

I take this to mean that you don’t find:
a) defense expert testimony that he was delusional OR
b) prosecution expert testimony that he was not delusional because the threat was real
to be true. I take this to mean that you believe he was not delusional or insane at the time. Because a “baffling” 911 call from someone delusional who thinks that someone is out to get them makes sense. You can’t be delusional enough to think you are being threatened and in danger and then make a 911 call to harass.

@CurrentlyHorseless

Since the recording operation was concealed, that was not designed to harass him, but understandably angered him when it was discovered.

Except it wasn’t. She posted on SM about it.

@CurrentlyHorseless

It’s just inconceivable that he would not have asked them to leave.

It’s inconceivable because he DID ask for them to leave. That is why there were negotiations. Negotiations that the Kanareks’ own lawyer testified to in a court of law. Negotiations to leave are an “ask”.

@CurrentlyHorseless

Seeker is now saying that JK was not involved in these negotiations, and it’s true that JK did not testify. I had been assuming JK had been involved in the Tarshis negotiations, but now I have doubts, given what Seeker said.

Again - you are now saying that not one, but two lawyers perjured themselves and neither the prosecutor, nor the judge caught it? And that the Kanareks didn’t immediately notify said prosecutor about said perjury when they were sitting in the courtroom? Wow.

@CurrentlyHorseless

Lots of people here cheered the verdict of NGRI.

I have to wonder if people think he was never insane at all, and his brilliant lawyer established the insanity finding to get him acquitted, or whether people think he was delusional for a 12 hour period in which he shot her, but was completely sane and rational for all of July through the morning of Aug 7.

No.

@CurrentlyHorseless

I think his behavior in those final weeks is evidence of delusion at that time. That makes what is otherwise inconceivable - that he omitted to ask her to leave- conceivable to me. Just my opinion.

But it doesn’t sound like that’s what you think at all… “reciprocal bullying”, “harassment” and all…

@hut-ho78

Please read the article for your own edification and stop making comments about my standards. The mods don’t like it when we attack each other.

If you believe, as you stated, that the police work was acceptable, then it isn’t an “attack” to say that your standards are low when the crime scene processing was so lacking.

[BrendaJane]

but one person not a pattern make.

[BrendaJane]

the three sides: Her story, his story and the truth.
The latter being terribly abused these days.

[BatCoach]

@Sdel

They were some that looked up her show record and claimed her horse wasn’t advanced enough to be chosen by MB to be used in Rio and questioned why someone who claimed to be so afraid/unhappy would have chosen to go back to MB a second time.

Ah I see the “nasty” business of fact-finding and claim verification. Got it. I forgot that we are supposed to just take everything at face value and believe any claim brought to us no matter how improbable.

[erinmeri]

@CurrentlyHorseless

Has Seeker1 accused anyone of “blatant perjury”. or of “perjury” of any form? I haven’t seen Seeker use the word perjury.

As I recall Seeker said something about statements that JK was involved in the negotiations was, what was the technical term, “BS”.

I recall a nice explanation of perjury provided by one of the lawyers (maybe Ekat), that said that simply stating under oath something factually untrue did not necessarily constitute perjury. Instead it mattered whether the untrue aspect was or wasn’t material to the issue.

OMG, I just can’t. Whether or not JK was involved in at least a week (if not WEEKS worth) of negotiations is necessarily material to the issue. You yourself keep insisting there was no “ask” to leave. The negotiations constitute an ask!!!

Head exploding. Is this heat stroke (rode 3 today in this heat wave), or is this really happening? Who am I? What is my name? What year is it? Who is President?

[ekat]

@BrendaJane

but one person not a pattern make.

I completely agree.

[hut-ho78]

@Sdel

@BatCoach

@hut-ho78

There were some nasty posts about her and her horses after she posted that. I don’t think she was comfortable. It is worrisome with the pushback against SafeSport, big money sponsors, and the hostility to anyone with a different viewpoint to The Only Story Allowed.

Horse safety, being silently blackballed at shows, being scheduled for the last class or the first class or the hottest time of the day.

Really? please refresh my memory because I do not remember any such posts

They were some that looked up her show record and claimed her horse wasn’t advanced enough to be chosen by MB to be used in Rio and questioned why someone who claimed to be so afraid/unhappy would have chosen to go back to MB a second time.

Yes but she really had a nice horse so the negative comments were not accurate.