At least (I’m guessing) you don’t have to worry about losing your manliness, or whatever ridiculous phrase was also thrown in MB’s direction regarding his age by that poster. Talk about an offensive comment.
Actually it’s a threat when you imply a lot of other things to go along with it….
If you were not very kindly doing the QFP thing for the benefit of everyone else, your number would be far lower!
How is it harassment?
I just see it as a literary reference. They didn’t call you a name. The comment doesn’t violate any forum rules.
Remember, you’re trying to reason with someone who keeps defaming someone who was acquitted of attempted murder.
CurrentlyHorseless:Excellent! I agree with Sdel!
Re bolded: LK threatened not to come to NJ in spring 2019 if MB did not through in the apartment.
Outside of Coth, this is know as negotiation.
Actually it’s a threat when you imply a lot of other things to go along with it….
Yeah, not interested in going there again, Sdel.
She negotiated a favorable deal by saying she would not travel back from Florida if the apartment was not included. He agreed to the deal.
Sdel: CurrentlyHorseless:Excellent! I agree with Sdel!
Re bolded: LK threatened not to come to NJ in spring 2019 if MB did not through in the apartment.
Outside of Coth, this is know as negotiation.
Actually it’s a threat when you imply a lot of other things to go along with it….
Yeah, not interested in going there again, Sdel.
She negotiated a favorable deal by saying she would not travel back from Florida if the apartment was not included. He agreed to the deal.
Only after he was threatened.
Virginia_Horse_Mom:How is it harassment?
I just see it as a literary reference. They didn’t call you a name. The comment doesn’t violate any forum rules.
Remember, you’re trying to reason with someone who keeps defaming someone who was acquitted of attempted murder.
And defaming lawyers by accusing them of lying under oath…
trubandloki: smoofox:Seeker - you have the most posts in this thread - so you are actively enabling and supporting something you allegedly dislike. Next comes legal helper ekat… then eggbutt… KnightsMom… Sdel… CurrentlyHorseless …hut-ho… trubandloki . …and so on. I do not even make the top 22 with my paltry postings.
Darn, I am way behind. I need to post more.
If you were not very kindly doing the QFP thing for the benefit of everyone else, your number would be far lower!
So who thinks QFPing is a benefit to the threads, MHM? You?
CurrentlyHorseless: Sdel: CurrentlyHorseless:Excellent! I agree with Sdel!
Re bolded: LK threatened not to come to NJ in spring 2019 if MB did not through in the apartment.
Outside of Coth, this is know as negotiation.
Actually it’s a threat when you imply a lot of other things to go along with it….
Yeah, not interested in going there again, Sdel.
She negotiated a favorable deal by saying she would not travel back from Florida if the apartment was not included. He agreed to the deal.
Only after he was threatened.
Exactly. Threatened with losing her as a client.
MHM: trubandloki: smoofox:Seeker - you have the most posts in this thread - so you are actively enabling and supporting something you allegedly dislike. Next comes legal helper ekat… then eggbutt… KnightsMom… Sdel… CurrentlyHorseless …hut-ho… trubandloki . …and so on. I do not even make the top 22 with my paltry postings.
Darn, I am way behind. I need to post more.
If you were not very kindly doing the QFP thing for the benefit of everyone else, your number would be far lower!
So who thinks QFPing is a benefit to the threads, MHM? You?
.[quote=“CurrentlyHorseless, post:4593, topic:773116, full:true”]
trubandloki: smoofox:Seeker - you have the most posts in this thread - so you are actively enabling and supporting something you allegedly dislike. Next comes legal helper ekat… then eggbutt… KnightsMom… Sdel… CurrentlyHorseless …hut-ho… trubandloki . …and so on. I do not even make the top 22 with my paltry postings.
Darn, I am way behind. I need to post more.
If you were not very kindly doing the QFP thing for the benefit of everyone else, your number would be far lower!
So who thinks QFPing is a benefit to the threads, MHM? You?
[/quote]
I’m no…there were a lot of other things thrown around in that manifesto….
Oh come on. You are smarter than this, as is everyone following this thread. If he had taken the stand to discuss the board arrangements, everything else would have been fair game.
No competent defense attorney would have allowed him to take the stand in a criminal trial … PERIOD.
He certainly might as part of the civil proceedings though.
At some point on the future when all the trials are over and Michael is a free man, I believe he will speak out. I think it will be healing for him to share the truth, shed light on how he was convinced to take on these grifters, and set the record straight about how and why things went downhill so quickly. Who knows, perhaps there will even be a book deal? For sure it will be a cautionary tale, not just for those in the horse business but for anyone dealing with narcissistic people. And when that happens, I don’t imagine the picture painted of the Kanareks / RG will be pretty.
Bolded = my responses
Whether he had a cash flow problem or not, IMHO
$5,000 a month is better than $0 a month as long as it’s covering at least the marginal costs incurred for those horses. Does it cover hay, shavings, and stall cleaning for those horses? If yes, it’s better than empty stalls.Well that’s true, if and only if MB would be unable to fill those stalls in the event LK left.
This is true whether he’s running at a profit or running at a loss, I she’s paying more than marginal cost. keeping her as a boarder either reduces the monthly loss or increases the monthly profit.
Totally true, if and only if any losses associated with LK apply only to the stalls her horses are occupying at below the market rate, AND MB would have been unable to fill those stalls if LK were to leave.
Now if ending her deal resulted in filling the stalls with higher paying boarders, then that’s better.
Yup. I agree
If the barn already had empty stalls, you’d fill those before kicking her out.
He would probably want to do that, if he could. Hence my earlier question on this thread wondering if Hawthorne Hill was full that summer
If he wanted to raise the rates, he first need to ask her permission. He can just say, “_As of next month, your rates are …” Thereason not to do that is fear she’d leave!
Well… this is actually tricky. If they had a written agreement, and he wanted to break it and raise rates, they would need to negotiate a new agreement. But as far as we all know, there was no written agreement. Only a verbal agreement. So how does he go about breaking the verbal agreement, and negotiating new rates? I guess he could have just told her in July, “Hey, if you want to stay on as of August 1st, I need you to start paying full price, plus rent for the apartment. I’m having cash flow issues. Otherwise, I need to go ahead and get in boarders and people who can pay market rates.” These sorts of conversations happen in business relationships sometimes. Did one happen between MB and LK? Not that we know of. One reason it might not of… BECAUSE HE WANTED HER TO JUST GO AHEAD AND LEAVE ASAP.
CurrentlyHorseless:The bolded. Barisone could have testified but chose not to. His amnesia did not rule out discussing the board deal.
Oh come on. You are smarter than this, as is everyone following this thread. If he had taken the stand to discuss the board arrangements, everything else would have been fair game.
No competent defense attorney would have allowed him to take the stand in a criminal trial … PERIOD.
He certainly might as part of the civil proceedings though.
Of course. He could have testified, and it would have been useful wrt his state of mind.
But he didn’t want to expose himself to cross examination.
MHM: eggbutt:LK doesn’t have the credentials to be sponsored by a wealthy dressage enthusiast, so who knows?
Well, if anyone besides a relative sponsored her, that would make her not an amateur
You mean in terms of her ‘riding career,’ right?
I would probably not have called it that, but sure, OK.
I was thinking more along the lines of the classes she would be able to enter and the other exhibitors she would have to compete against in that case.
So who thinks QFPing is a benefit to the threads, MHM? You?
I think it’s highly beneficial. Keeps the conversation honest. There are usually plenty of likes on QFP post so I know others agree.
$5000 a month is not better than nothing when one considers the cost of training, board, feed, bedding, the expense of someone living and using utilities, etc. I’m guessing LK, et al was costing MB more than what was being paid on her behalf.
Reminds me of a colleague who was approached by the local humane society to do spays for 1/2 what he was charging with a “certificate” from them.
He pointed out that he was already doing the surgery at a loss with what he charged, and they suggested that with their 1/2 peice vouchers, he could do more of them!
[quote=“CurrentlyHorseless, post:4594, topic:773116”]
CurrentlyHorseless:She negotiated a favorable deal by saying she would not travel back from Florida if the apartment was not included. He agreed to the deal.
[/quote]Only after he was threatened.
Exactly. Threatened with losing her as a client.
Let’s think about this though. They returned from Florida in March or April of 2019. Then in May of 2019, LK bought Jay-T from MB for $40,000 … if I recollect correctly.
Things got uglier and uglier from there on out.
Now I don’t know this for a fact… but… I think it’s reasonable to conclude it was worth retaining her as a client while there was a possible horse sale in the works. But once the horse sale went through, she was less valuable as a client. As things began to get exceptionally difficult and ugly in July… boy oh boy was she less worthwhile to keep on as a client at the farm. And thus, by the end of the summer of 2019, LK threatening to leave MB? Uhhh… that held no power anymore.
PERHAPS that’s why she actually DIDN’T threaten to leave come August, and instead, tried to assert herself in other ways.
Bolded = my responses
CurrentlyHorseless:Whether he had a cash flow problem or not, IMHO
$5,000 a month is better than $0 a month as long as it’s covering at least the marginal costs incurred for those horses. Does it cover hay, shavings, and stall cleaning for those horses? If yes, it’s better than empty stalls.Well that’s true, if and only if MB would be unable to fill those stalls in the event LK left.
This is true whether he’s running at a profit or running at a loss, I she’s paying more than marginal cost. keeping her as a boarder either reduces the monthly loss or increases the monthly profit.
Totally true, if and only if any losses associated with LK apply only to the stalls her horses are occupying at below the market rate, AND MB would have been unable to fill those stalls if LK were to leave.
Now if ending her deal resulted in filling the stalls with higher paying boarders, then that’s better.
Yup. I agree
If the barn already had empty stalls, you’d fill those before kicking her out.
He would probably want to do that, if he could. Hence my earlier question on this thread wondering if Hawthorne Hill was full that summer
If he wanted to raise the rates, he first need to ask her permission. He can just say, “_As of next month, your rates are …” Thereason not to do that is fear she’d leave!
Well… this is actually tricky. If they had a written agreement, and he wanted to break it and raise rates, they would need to negotiate a new agreement. But as far as we all know, there was no written agreement. Only a verbal agreement. So how does he go about breaking the verbal agreement, and negotiating new rates? I guess he could have just told her in July, “Hey, if you want to stay on as of August 1st, I need you to start paying full price, plus rent for the apartment. I’m having cash flow issues. Otherwise, I need to go ahead and get in boarders and people who can pay market rates.” These sorts of conversations happen in business relationships sometimes. Did one happen between MB and LK? Not that we know of. One reason it might not of… BECAUSE HE WANTED HER TO JUST GO AHEAD AND LEAVE ASAP.
If there was a written agreement, it would have specified a notice period to raise the fees. If there’s no contact, he may have been able to raise them on short notice. My board contracts were always 30 days notice, but on several occasions board was raised with less notice. I scowled and paid.
Surely a barn owner is not locked in to a fixed board fee forever in the absence of a contract.
Sdel:They were some that looked up her show record and claimed her horse wasn’t advanced enough to be chosen by MB to be used in Rio and questioned why someone who claimed to be so afraid/unhappy would have chosen to go back to MB a second time.
Ah I see the “nasty” business of fact-finding and claim verification. Got it. I forgot that we are supposed to just take everything at face value and believe any claim brought to us no matter how improbable.
Well, it seems to depend quite a bit on the source. Some people take everything IM said as gospel, for example.