Barisone assessment

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@eggbutt

@CurrentlyHorseless

@Warmblood1

I think the “Finish the Bastard” phrase is really ruffling the K-Klan’s feathers. Now we see “ruin her universe” making its debut but it just doesn’t hit quite the same. It feels unsubstantiated and forgotten. Desperate times, it seems.

I also think Mama and Papa rider are financially invested in this upcoming civil trial - well, to put it blatantly, how else is LK paying for it all? But not just that, the family’s reputation is on the line. Imagine building an entire law career just to be undone by your own daughter.

And @CurrentlyHorseless, your logic is continuously but reliably flawed. You still continue to believe that MB proceeded with eviction the way he did because he desperately needing LK’s 5k a month. That accounted for 10 percent of his facility’s operating expenses, per testimony under oath. If she had contributed 25 percent, 30 percent, etc., I can see some validity to this argument. However, MB could have made MORE money on consignment/sales, training or board from other clients than he did with LK. He gave her a very fair deal, she took total advantage of it, he paid the price.

“Proceeded with the eviction the way he did”?

My main point is that he did not give her a demand to vacate until the day before he shot her, and that he could easily have “mitigated his damages”, that is, avoided the harassment by LK, if he had served a demand to vacate on May 1, June 1, July 1, etc. He didn’t.

If he could have made more money on “consignment/sales, training or board from other clients”, that’s all the more reason to end the business arrangement with LK at some earlier point with 30 days notice, like a sane person would have done. He didn’t.

My saying he declined to demand she vacate earlier, months earlier, because he wanted the $5,000 per month is just my best guess.

I don’t really care what you want to fill in the blanks with as to why he failed to demand she vacate months earlier. Whatever reason there was as to why he failed to demand she vacate earlier, the fact is that he did not serve a demand to vacate until the day before he shot her. I think LKs civil lawyers will make much of that fact.

“$5,000 a month toward your expenses is better than zero dollars a month against your expenses” is my logic.

Interesting thoughts except you have forgotten the statements here and elsewhere by Kanarek members that the relationship had soured months before, Jonathan was aware and had been involved in negotiations to get her to leave, there apparently were quite a few text chains between LK, RG, and JK all discussing the need to leave and her refusal to do so, discussion with attorneys to have her vacate, and repeated threats made to Barisone and his girlfriend.

The civil case will make a great deal of her orchestrated plan to destroy MB, his relationship with his girl friend, and his business; drug use on his property by LK/RG, illegal surveillance installed on his private property, untruthful testimony from the criminal trial, and her SM posts of the fear she felt for her life. Any normal, rational person would have left without the requirement of being told! Instead a plan was hatched to call building inspectors, fire inspectors, and concoct a dialog with SS to contact CPS. WHO DOES THAT? And don’t forget the now familiar “Finish the Bastard”! Tack on the testimony of those who have been attacked and threatened by LK over the years and it seems clear what a civil verdict might result in. Keep in mind much more will be allowed in during a civil trial. LK’s past behavior and pattern of threatening others will be front and center.

Add to all the above the huge number of posts by LK on YT chats that don’t paint her in a positive light. Of course she can once again say she lies on SM, but a jury may say enough is enough and determine her lies have hurt Barisone’s future business. The mention of giving 48 Hours the illegal tapes etc, as well as the entire 48 Hour segment and any other outlets will be used against LK.

There’s a lot I disagree with in your post, but I’ll address just the three items I’ve bolded.

1. It’s clear that there was a lot of animosity between LK and MHG, but Barisone himself continued to make plans to coach LK at August shows and bring in an additional horse to HH from quarantine. It’s clear MHG wanted her gone, but not clear (to me) that Barisone wanted her gone. If his attempting to both keep LK as client and MHG as girlfriend, despite the animosity between the two women, was untenable when MHG issued an ultimatum, that’s not the fault of LK. IMO.

The fact remains that he did not do something as simple and obvious as issuing a demand to vacate earlier than Aug 6.

2. Barisone’s business has been hurt by the fact that he shot one of his clients, and because he has been found to be criminally insane.

3. The audio recordings have not been determined by a court to be illegally made. No one has been charged with a crime in connection with them. I’m assuming that LK will get legal advice before handing them over to 48 hours or other media. How the audio recordings affect the civil trial will probably depend on what’s on them. According to IM “Ruin her universe” was spoken by Mary Haskins Gray, referring to LK.

[CurrentlyHorseless]

@trubandloki

@CurrentlyHorseless

“Proceeded with the eviction the way he did”?

My main point is that he did not give her a demand to vacate until the day before he shot her, and that he could easily have “mitigated his damages”, that is, avoided the harassment by LK, if he had served a demand to vacate on May 1, June 1, July 1, etc. He didn’t.

If he could have made more money on “consignment/sales, training or board from other clients”, that’s all the more reason to end the business arrangement with LK at some earlier point with 30 days notice, like a sane person would have done. He didn’t.

My saying he declined to demand she vacate earlier, months earlier, because he wanted the $5,000 per month is just my best guess.

I don’t really care what you want to fill in the blanks with as to why he failed to demand she vacate months earlier. Whatever reason there was as to why he failed to demand she vacate earlier, the fact is that he did not serve a demand to vacate until the day before he shot her. I think LKs civil lawyers will make much of that fact.

“$5,000 a month toward your expenses is better than zero dollars a month against your expenses” is my logic.

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@trubandloki apparently has quoted my post because she thinks it needs to be quoted again and again! She must think it is an excellent post!

[MHM]

Interesting, thanks.

Once again, I’m grateful to all those who are sharing their legal knowledge with the rest of us.

[ekat]

You’re welcome!

[trubandloki]

@CurrentlyHorseless

There’s a lot I disagree with in your post, but I’ll address just the three items I’ve bolded.

1. It’s clear that there was a lot of animosity between LK and MHG, but Barisone himself continued to make plans to coach LK at August shows and bring in an additional horse to HH from quarantine. It’s clear MHG wanted her gone, but not clear (to me) that Barisone wanted her gone. If his attempting to both keep LK as client and MHG as girlfriend, despite the animosity between the two women, was untenable when MHG issued an ultimatum, that’s not the fault of LK. IMO.

The fact remains that he did not do something as simple and obvious as issuing a demand to vacate earlier than Aug 6.

2. Barisone’s business has been hurt by the fact that he shot one of his clients, and because he has been found to be criminally insane.
3. The audio recordings have not been determined by a court to be illegally made. No one has been charged with a crime in connection with them. I’m assuming that LK will get legal advice before handing them over to 48 hours or other media. How the audio recordings affect the civil trial will probably depend on what’s on them. According to IM “Ruin her universe” was spoken by Mary Haskins Gray, referring to LK.

@CurrentlyHorseless

@trubandloki apparently has quoted my post because she thinks it needs to be quoted again and again! She must think it is an excellent post!

.

[ekat]

@Angela_Freda

And in the meantime, before the civil proceedings, 48 Hours can air their show about the criminal case?
That doesn’t effect the potential jurors?

I mean, no more than the news articles and everything else out there. Plus, by the time it gets to court, 48 Hrs will be forgotten. And, they only have to find 6 people plus a couple alternates that say they either don’t know anything or can be unbiased.

I think as a whole, you (g) tend to worry more about tainting a jury pool when someone’s freedom and livihood is at stake that when people are ultimately fighting for money.

[erinmeri]

@CurrentlyHorseless

@trubandloki apparently has quoted my post because she thinks it needs to be quoted again and again! She must think it is an excellent post!

I can’t speak for why @trubandloki is QFP’ing your posts, but unless otherwise stated (as in “Couldn’t have said this better! Quoting again!”), the reasons people quote here when they are not responding to a point are not something to be proud of. Rather, they are because of a poster’s history of editing, deleting, contradicting, or otherwise obfuscating posts/opinions/statements. But, being an avid poster here I am sure you are aware of that.

[eggbutt]

@CurrentlyHorseless

but Barisone himself continued to make plans to coach LK at August shows

We don’t know this though do we? LK did her own entries. I may be mistaken but I don’t think MB coached her at the last show she went to. All indications are he was fed up with the lack of commitment.

@CurrentlyHorseless

Barisone’s business has been hurt by the fact that he shot one of his clients, and because he has been found to be criminally insane.

I guess you aren’t familiar with the number of people/farms already requesting clinics and training when he feels up to it again. Quite a few here in NC, including the Tryon area.

@CurrentlyHorseless

I’m assuming that LK will get legal advice before handing them over to 48 hours or other media.

We can only hope she seeks counsel from someone other than ED.

As far as “ruin her universe”…wow. I don’t take that as a threat during a private conversation with others quite frustrated with her behavior. What happened to the “bombshells” promised for the criminal trial? Maybe they turned out to he kid’s sparklers instead…IDK.

[erinmeri]

I was darned curious about the uptick in activity on this thread, so I reluctantly checked in. Sure enough… was a sleepy one until one by one, a few posters showed up here and riled the roost. Then summarily, at least one of them complained about the postings, which - until they showed up to rile things up - had been fairly benign. Amusing.

[trubandloki]

@erinmeri, I agree with both of your posts.

[BigMama1]

@CurrentlyHorseless

I don’t really care what you want to fill in the blanks with as to why he failed to demand she vacate months earlier. Whatever reason there was as to why he failed to demand she vacate earlier, the fact is that he did not serve a demand to vacate until the day before he shot her. I think LKs civil lawyers will make much of that fact.

From everything we heard, it sounds like he was assuming / hoping at first the issues could be resolved without involving the legal system. When most client / trainer relationships go sour, the client takes their horses and leaves. Though he hadn’t served legal notice earlier, he had obviously made it known and she quite clearly knew she was no longer welcome there. Michael’s mistake was assuming she was a normal, rational person with a shred of self respect and common decency; that person would not stay where they weren’t wanted, and would leave without needing to be forced out by the courts.

He hadn’t counted on her reacting like a psychopath and launching a campaign to ruin him personally and professionally. When it became clear there was no alternative, he tried the formal eviction route.

You keep assigning blame to him for not doing that sooner, but does she not bear any responsibility for not simply finding somewhere else to train and live?

[Seeker1]

This is for a tax exemption.

[ekat]

@CurrentlyHorseless

because he has been found to be criminally insane.

I know we’ve talked about this before, but that is a misstatement of NJ law. MB was found to be legally insane, yes, but in NJ, that’s not criminal.

[trubandloki]

@Seeker1

This is for a tax exemption.

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[SillyHorse]

@ekat

@CurrentlyHorseless

because he has been found to be criminally insane.

I know we’ve talked about this before, but that is a misstatement of NJ law. MB was found to be legally insane, yes, but in NJ, that’s not criminal.

She knows that as well as you and I do. It’s a lame attempt to get attention. Ignore it.

[ekat]

@SillyHorse

She knows that as well as you and I do. It’s a lame attempt to get attention. Ignore it.

Will do. Thanks for the reminder.

[erinmeri]

Additions mine, in bold.

@eggbutt

@CurrentlyHorseless

but Barisone himself continued to make plans to coach LK at August shows

We don’t know this though do we? LK did her own entries. I may be mistaken but I don’t think MB coached her at the last show she went to. All indications are he was fed up with the lack of commitment. Agree we don’t know that, and also do we even know when entries were done? In the H/J world, they can be months in advance, not sure about Dressage.

@CurrentlyHorseless

Barisone’s business has been hurt by the fact that he shot one of his clients, and because he has been found to be criminally insane.

I guess you aren’t familiar with the number of people/farms already requesting clinics and training when he feels up to it again . Quite a few here in NC, including the Tryon area. Let’s not forget that there was testimony that his business was hurt by LK and RG’s behavior and at least one client was trying to jump ship because of it.

@CurrentlyHorseless

I’m assuming that LK will get legal advice before handing them over to 48 hours or other media.

We can only hope she seeks counsel from someone other than ED.

As far as “ruin her universe”…wow. I don’t take that as a threat during a private conversation with others quite frustrated with her behavior. What happened to the “bombshells” promised for the criminal trial? Maybe they turned out to he kid’s sparklers instead…IDK. Agree about the “bombshells” - the only bombshells I saw at trial were from the other side and didn’t paint LK in a flattering light.

@CurrentlyHorseless’s line of thinking in a lot of posts echoes some of my thinking pre-trial. But the trial laid bare a whole lot and also confirmed a lot of hearsay here on the forum. My mind has changed as a result of what was laid bare.

The three narratives that I wish would die already are (paraphrasing here):

1. “LK was a cash cow MB needed because he was desperate.” It has been discussed 6 ways to Sunday how that is simply not true. My barn, H/J in an adjacent county without an Olympic trainer, charged more in August 2019 (when I got the rate sheet) for full training board than LK paid for the two she paid for. She committed highway robbery and still wasn’t satisfied. Not to mention, those stalls were worth more for clients paying full fare AND clients not scaring off other clients. Also, there is no evidence she could afford to buy additional horses and pay full fleet - so she isn’t a “cash cow” investment. Not then, not ever.

2. “MB only asked her to leave the day before.” No, that isn’t true. Rewatch the trial. She had been asked informally and more formally prior. Negotiations were in place. Whether he issued the notice or tried other, gentler means first is irrelevant. She knew she wasn’t wanted, she had other options, and she willingly stayed. This narrative is more tired than an abused Amish nag sent to auction.

3. “LK didn’t cause MB’s mental illness.” No, she didn’t. But she darned sure took advantage of it and drove him over the edge. He may have an underlying condition that left him vulnerable, but does that mean he should have had to withstand her campaign? What happened did not happen in a vacuum. Does she not have any culpability? My god.

End of rant.

[Danvers]

Well Said! BRAVO!

[MorganSercu]

@erinmeri

“LK didn’t cause MB’s mental illness.” No, she didn’t. But she darned sure took advantage of it and drove him over the edge. He may have an underlying condition that left him vulnerable, but does that mean he should have had to withstand her campaign? What happened did not happen in a vacuum. Does she not have any culpability? My god.

As her empathy chip was faulty, corrupted or never installed, it is unlikely she will ever understand that what she did was cruel and wrong. At her age (41), there is no reason to believe she can or will change. She was 37 or 38 at the time and felt there was nothing wrong with sneaking all over the property at night in her ninja + veil outfit. I don’t foresee improvement.

[cutter99]

@erinmeri excellent written, clear, spot-on posts!

Glad to see you here!